4.21: Double Jeopardy
- Thread starter peachy
- Start date
Erm....... it may be a silly point to make in the midst of all of this earthquake stuff (as important as this obviously is!), but getting back to the episode in question and the killing of Goa'uld..... someone made the comment about Cronos getting zapped dead in case he came back.... and I wonder whether, in the middle of all of this revenge thing and killing the Goa'uld because they're evil, anyone has given a thought to the fact that Cronos was inhabiting a human host.
Are we now to assume, courtesy of typical human xenophobia, that there is, in fact, nothing left of the host and that he has become as evil and horrific as the symbiote Cronos is supposed to be?(not that I thought he was actually, I thought he was one of the more thoughtful system lords). And I don't give a toss particularly about the Tea'lc revenge thing at all... I've personally found that revenge is not the satisfying thing it's cracked up to be at all. It doesn't turn back the clock or make anything else better, or make dead people alive. I personally think that the blind revenge kick that Tea'lc now appears to be on makes him a weak link and will put others in danger. SG1 also seem to be shifting the balance of power to a dangerous extent. And not necessarily to the benefit of Earth. We have to assume that the forces and domains of Cronos will be taken over instantly by some other system lord. Seems to me that with each system lord SG1 take down, they just make matters worse. I'm pretty surprised that this would be either tactically or diplomatically acceptable to the Earth authorities.
Of course, I also almost hesitate to mention the hosts of the other Goa'uld who were so gleefully zapped by SG1? Did their hosts actually deserve to die then? Is that the message being given in these cases? This doesn't really match with the whole 'taking unwilling hosts thing' at all to my mind.
Are we now to assume, courtesy of typical human xenophobia, that there is, in fact, nothing left of the host and that he has become as evil and horrific as the symbiote Cronos is supposed to be?(not that I thought he was actually, I thought he was one of the more thoughtful system lords). And I don't give a toss particularly about the Tea'lc revenge thing at all... I've personally found that revenge is not the satisfying thing it's cracked up to be at all. It doesn't turn back the clock or make anything else better, or make dead people alive. I personally think that the blind revenge kick that Tea'lc now appears to be on makes him a weak link and will put others in danger. SG1 also seem to be shifting the balance of power to a dangerous extent. And not necessarily to the benefit of Earth. We have to assume that the forces and domains of Cronos will be taken over instantly by some other system lord. Seems to me that with each system lord SG1 take down, they just make matters worse. I'm pretty surprised that this would be either tactically or diplomatically acceptable to the Earth authorities.
Of course, I also almost hesitate to mention the hosts of the other Goa'uld who were so gleefully zapped by SG1? Did their hosts actually deserve to die then? Is that the message being given in these cases? This doesn't really match with the whole 'taking unwilling hosts thing' at all to my mind.
Maybe the host wants to die; it seemed that way in Serpents Song.
Anyway, this might seem rather cold hearted, but consider that one life of the host against the mainy Jaffa enslaved that will die in battle, and the millions of peopl on various planets that the Goa'uld symbiote might wipe out, toture or kill for whatever reason (Singularity/There But For.../The Devil You Know)
Anyway, this might seem rather cold hearted, but consider that one life of the host against the mainy Jaffa enslaved that will die in battle, and the millions of peopl on various planets that the Goa'uld symbiote might wipe out, toture or kill for whatever reason (Singularity/There But For.../The Devil You Know)
Mmm....... yes, good point. However, we are assuming that humankind will continue to just be 'peaceful explorers' as Daniel keeps telling anyone who'll listen and not turn into the kind of human who places just as little value on life as the Goa'uld are supposed to.
How many times have we seen examples of 'man's inhumanity to man' and why would this change once WE got out into the galaxy and got some power? Humans don't have the best track record for the rights of the individual. We've tortured, maimed and killed our own. And we don't always listen to the words of those who DO care about life. Mostly, we all turn away and pretend not to see, because it's too uncomfortable/nasty to contemplate.
The survival instinct is the first and last instinct we have, therefore I don't really believe that the host would necessarily wish to die. Unless of course they were so afraid to carry on in a strange world that they just couldn't face up to it.
How many times have we seen examples of 'man's inhumanity to man' and why would this change once WE got out into the galaxy and got some power? Humans don't have the best track record for the rights of the individual. We've tortured, maimed and killed our own. And we don't always listen to the words of those who DO care about life. Mostly, we all turn away and pretend not to see, because it's too uncomfortable/nasty to contemplate.
The survival instinct is the first and last instinct we have, therefore I don't really believe that the host would necessarily wish to die. Unless of course they were so afraid to carry on in a strange world that they just couldn't face up to it.
i think the host is seen as an acceptable loss especially considering how difficult it can be to remove the symbiote from the host. it was shown in pretense and in tok'ra that they do possess the knowledge to remove the symbiote from the host however it is a risky procedure that both or neither may survive.
also given the recuperative powers of a goa'uld, it may be seen as necessary to kill the host along with its captor mainly because it would be far too difficult to aim more towards capture than killing...
also, good point about sg-1...and one jacob has brought up. their flurry of goa'uld deaths have done little more than elevate apophis to a position of extreme power. what once was dozens of system lords fighting amongst themselves is now less than that with apophis as the most powerful.
basically what sg-1 has done is end millenia of stalemates and brought the whole goa'uld thing to a head...and it will have to be dealth with either by the tau'ri or another alien race that's out there.
also given the recuperative powers of a goa'uld, it may be seen as necessary to kill the host along with its captor mainly because it would be far too difficult to aim more towards capture than killing...
also, good point about sg-1...and one jacob has brought up. their flurry of goa'uld deaths have done little more than elevate apophis to a position of extreme power. what once was dozens of system lords fighting amongst themselves is now less than that with apophis as the most powerful.
basically what sg-1 has done is end millenia of stalemates and brought the whole goa'uld thing to a head...and it will have to be dealth with either by the tau'ri or another alien race that's out there.
saki
Also, seems to me ( I might have this wrong) but if they removed the symbiote from someone like Chronus, the host would probably age and die almost immediately, like Apophis did in Serpent's Song. W/o the support of the symbiote, that epi seemed to imply (also Bloodlines), the host would quickly die. Skarra didn't because he'd only been a host for 3 years or so. So it might be a moot point.
Also, seems to me ( I might have this wrong) but if they removed the symbiote from someone like Chronus, the host would probably age and die almost immediately, like Apophis did in Serpent's Song. W/o the support of the symbiote, that epi seemed to imply (also Bloodlines), the host would quickly die. Skarra didn't because he'd only been a host for 3 years or so. So it might be a moot point.
You may be right, but I've found so many anomalies in the various scripts of SG about what would happen if....that I don't think there is any complete information source. In fact I think that the best information source that does exist is actually created by the fans. We are the people who really make the series live on through our continuing imaginations. The producers, writers and actors all go home at the end of a series or even an episode and live their normal lives. They probably don't discuss Stargate over dinner, or access lists to do with Stargate. In fact they probably don't even want to hear the word until the next time.
Also, in my opinon there are too many writers in SG and they nearly all contradict each other in their stories. Sometimes it almost seems to me that they try to undo or outdo the other writers. Not that I am saying by any means that they are bad writers at all. Most of the episodes would probably stand on their own. It just makes for bad continuity and loopholes in the stories. Personally I think we can have anything happen that we want to happen in the Stargate universe, because it all comes from the imagination. Whether it's ours or the official writers of the show.
Also, in my opinon there are too many writers in SG and they nearly all contradict each other in their stories. Sometimes it almost seems to me that they try to undo or outdo the other writers. Not that I am saying by any means that they are bad writers at all. Most of the episodes would probably stand on their own. It just makes for bad continuity and loopholes in the stories. Personally I think we can have anything happen that we want to happen in the Stargate universe, because it all comes from the imagination. Whether it's ours or the official writers of the show.
Alright just saw this ep....well part of it, i saw wot i could while eating brekie this morning.LOL
i love the Jack fighting bit (i so own you).
And wots with the Carters hair?!?! i know that back in season one it was way different to know but was it ever that.. fluffy and astray (thats probably not a word but you know what i mean.)
Jaxie
i love the Jack fighting bit (i so own you).
And wots with the Carters hair?!?! i know that back in season one it was way different to know but was it ever that.. fluffy and astray (thats probably not a word but you know what i mean.)
Jaxie
carter's hair probably had a lot to do with whatever wig they found for her...as soon as they said the clones were coming back i knew hair would be a problem since all of them(except teal'c) have changed their hairstyles since...also i thing sam has dropped a few pounds, or it could be just that the shorter hair makes her face look skinner...anyway
could it be that taking out the symbiote does what one theory is about what happens when you stake a vampire? now, and maybe this is just hollywood soeaking, one theory is when a vampire dies s/he reverts to what they would be had they been human, therefore a 2,000 vamp will basically turn into dust...
this does agree with apophis in serpents song. in that eps the worm was dying and obviously not able to maintain the body. now for a smbiote to maintain a body, even a tok'ra who don't use the sarc the worm has to basically repair all the cellular damage that occures daily as a fact of life...although as evidenced by sarouche in tok'ra, eventually the symbiote can't retard the aging process...now in the case of apophis the worm had obviously been aided by a sarc...and once the worm way dying, well it seems to me the worm was saving all its strength to preserve itself and letting the host go to pot...therefore it is possible that if a host and symbiote are blended too long they can't separate...both are too dependant upon each other, sorta like a person hooked to a ventilator for too long will forget how to breathe...the symbiote can move on but the host can't live without the worm
could it be that taking out the symbiote does what one theory is about what happens when you stake a vampire? now, and maybe this is just hollywood soeaking, one theory is when a vampire dies s/he reverts to what they would be had they been human, therefore a 2,000 vamp will basically turn into dust...
this does agree with apophis in serpents song. in that eps the worm was dying and obviously not able to maintain the body. now for a smbiote to maintain a body, even a tok'ra who don't use the sarc the worm has to basically repair all the cellular damage that occures daily as a fact of life...although as evidenced by sarouche in tok'ra, eventually the symbiote can't retard the aging process...now in the case of apophis the worm had obviously been aided by a sarc...and once the worm way dying, well it seems to me the worm was saving all its strength to preserve itself and letting the host go to pot...therefore it is possible that if a host and symbiote are blended too long they can't separate...both are too dependant upon each other, sorta like a person hooked to a ventilator for too long will forget how to breathe...the symbiote can move on but the host can't live without the worm
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