4.07: Watergate

archiver

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padders

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archiver

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Sean3w

How come they couldn't figure out sooner that the water was alive. I did. It was obvious since they were being held there by nothing. I like this one though. I give it a 8 out of 10.
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archiver

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SGPflughaupt

They were in the middle of ancient underwater ruins they didnt know what tech devices they might have activated. A force field trap designed to close on its prey like a steel bear trap maybe.
 

archiver

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SGPflughaupt

The ruins bring up an interesting question. They didnt look like they were built for underwater so we might assume the ground submurged or collapsed some how a long time ago. They werent build for aquatic based creatures like the aliens encountered by the team. So who built them and where did the water-creatures come from.
Did the water-creatures evolve after the previous lifeform was wiped out by a cataclismic event. Or did they exist concurrent with them. Or were the water-creatures bio-engineered by the vanished race. Or the race bio-engineered themselves into water-creatures. Or did the race leave through the gate and the water-creatures moved in...................so many possiblities not even hinted at.
 

archiver

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MythingLink

Yeah, way too many doors left open. Agreed with SGP about the ruins. They had to be for a corporeal race. However since it doesn't look like anyone is going to be welcome back there, they aren't going to find anything out.
Cheers,


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Martouf

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I had no idea about the water being alive.
My heart stopped beating when I saw Maybourne frozen.
I kind of don't understand why the water wouldn't go through the Gate, yes they explained it but still, it puts pressure against the eventerise thus going through the eventerise like a human?
 

RangerOne SG13 SOR

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Hmm didnt I say I bet the stargate survived the crash !!!

So now the Ruskies have it.. what happens next ?

Close co-operation?

Technology race?

colonization race ?

In fact do you think that the Russians getting the gate was intentional by Americas internal security/CIA

That way they could hand shape covert ops to steal err I mean aquire new goodies hehehe...

The water thing well it reminded me too much of the film Abyss but yep it was obvious it was alive as soon as maybourne was found.

Speaking of Maybourne what happened? did Jack shoot him or bring him back. Did he stay with mother Russia, is he spy or a plant ???????

Tune in next week for more gripping questions ( but never any answers)

:p

Ranger

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Cap'tCrash

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I liked this one as well, it did remind me of the abyss in a way and the Xfiles 'black oil'.

Again the writers have it pitched at just the right level.After the fun of last week it was good to have a 'serious' epi.
It wasn't without its funnies though, my fav.
'Holy frozen bad guys'
'If you say it's classified I WILL shoot you!'
is our Jack getting fed up of being on the wrong side of the 'need to know' line?
 

skydiver

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the sentient water did remind me more than a little of abyss.
the funny thing was, i didn't recognize harry at first, not until he thawed out anyway.
i knew the second gate had to have survived...the one on edora survived a direct meteor hit, which had to be more force than crashing into the ocean.
the real question i had is did the ruskies keep the gate or did the sgc get it back...after the eps it's just forgotten.
personally i'd sorta want to have it under control. i mean imagine if the goa'uld managed to connect with it, they could invade most of russia before anyone had an inkling that there was a problem.
 

Shaun

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Hopefully they do a follow up episode later on in the series. But it's more likely they will just mention something about it in a later episode. Because I would like to find out what happened to the life forms on the planet.
 

jsc

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I agree on both counts Shaun!
Would love to hear their reactions to us and all other life forms they have run into. Guess you will have to write it up in Fan Fic!
 

padders

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arr. far to many questions left unanswered.

Think we can go back to that planet ever? I would hope so.

I guess the water people are not happy that every time we opened the gate we obliterated a few million of them. I guess only the really stupid ones live by the gate now though so natural selection and all that :)

I agree martouf, the water not going through bizarre. As you said there is pressure on the event horizon, in fact a hell of a lot more pressure than a person puts on it so yeah.. odd.

Why did the water thing kill all the previous soldiors by forcing them through the event horizon when it knew it would kill them?

Mayborne.. funny. Wonder what will happen to him. I did think for a moment he was dead but nah they can't kill him off. Good to see him back though.

Russian women, it is what's her name of star trek next generation istn't it? Not so sure about the accent.

Good ep and yeah nice to go back to a serious one after the terribly funny previous one.
 

jsc

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Yes, Marina Sertis. De Anna Troi. Lousy accent for an English Actress! She really struggle with it.

I still want to know what is going to happen to Maybourne. Will he convince the Russians that he can run an effective program from Russia? Will he walk through the Stargate and force Hammond to retire (Chain Reaction) We'll see in January, Darn' long wait!

Natural Selection is not operating when the gate is opened. The gate is not a force of nature. It was created by individuals and its operation is not a random event. The gate killing the creatures was more like Random Drift not Natural Selection.

[Edited by jsc on 10-22-2000 at 04:38 PM]
 

padders

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why does natural selection only get to occur if something is natural (what ever that word actually means)? Why is technology not natural? The "people" that first started using fire got an evolutionary advantage, but is fire natural?

Natural selection as i understand it is something where there is a selection procedure. If the little water aliens have a choice about where they are at any one time (ie they can move!) then it is natural selection as the stupid ones die! For it to be random drift there needs to be no selection procedure based on action by the aliens.

I agree about Mayborne, think he escaped before Jack got back?
 

Corzafa

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how can it be classed as water when it is alive???

If it is a life wouldnt be an organism or somewthing like that???


Maybourne, why and how did he get hooked up with russia. He couldnt just go upto them and ask to run a sgc program. Or is maybourne working for russia??


Agggh too many q's to worry about.
 

jsc

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Padders in biology Natural Selection of Neo Darwinism has to do with several things. One of them is the survival of genetic types in the population through differential contribtion of offspring. The next is that it is the mechanism of evolution for straight Darwinists. So the population genetics would have to be measured before and after the event that occurred. Then we would have to measure the long term effects on the population in the next generation to determine change. Sorry! you have to measure the before and the after effects for Natural Selection. It is a biology thing not a social thing and you are using the term in a social way not the biologic way! That the difference between the survival of the fittest and differential reproductive survivorship through Natural selection. One aint measurable and is social jingoism the other is biology which as a science has to be provable and repeatable and therefore measureable otherwise you have a teleologic arguement.

Now to your arguement that the stupid ones died because they had a choice and were next to the gate. What did you measure to prove the ones next to the gate were the stupid ones. Is that a valid biologic arguement or is it an observation or is it an opinion? Are you using a biologic term to enhance your opinion... Think about it.

[Edited by jsc on 11-07-2000 at 12:07 AM]
 

jsc

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Here we go again. Fire. Have you ever seen lightening strike the ground or a tree? If it ain't raining what happens? Ayeah, fire is natural. Just ask any biologist. naturalist, anthropologist or ecologist. Perhaps you were thinking of the many uses for fire by hominids?
 

padders

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ok a little confused by what you were saying:

Evolution happens two ways (as i see it). Firstly as adapting to a known environment (like how humans are still evolving now) secondly, adapting to a change in environemnt (dinosaurs, affects of ice ages, etc).

Now, the gate is one of the latter. It is an environmental shock, a change to the system. It is still likely to cause change.

Now it is only natural seclection if there is some survival of the fittest. My assumptions were:

1) The aliens are killed by the opening wormhole
2) The aliens know that when the wormhole opens they will be killed (as opposed to "prisoner" i think that is episode where they do not).
3) The aliens do not want to die
4) The aliens have free will about moving away from the gate.

Now if you accept these assumptions, then it follows that if they do not move away from the gate then :

either:

1) they can't
2) they don't want to.

If you follow number 2 then it is because:

1) they don't know the gate kills them (stupid??? if others do)
2) they don't care (stupid).

so that is where natural seclection occurs.

Think of it as a room of humans with a gate opening and everyone knows that it will kill someone. Who will be by the gate and die:

1) People prepared to sacrifice themselves for others.
2) People who do not understand that they will die if they stand there
3) Weak people, ie if the stronger ones force them to stand there.

--> evolution on -ve kindness, intelligence and strength.

===

social evolution.

Not sure what your point was here. Why can't you have social evolution, in fact i am sure you can. Why do parents look after their children in mammals? because it increases chance of genetic survival. Is it a conincidence that the average life span of mammamals which stay as a family grups (chimps, moneys etc) is a few years after their grandchild will be born? Evolution has determined that grandparents live long enough to help look after their grandchildren but once they are old enough to fend for themselves (and genetic transfer is ensured) grandparents die.

The same sort of thing can be applied to ethics i believe. Why do we think it is wrong to kill people? Why do we have a circle mentatility, look after family first, then friends etc.. evolution.. part of our sociology is in our genes.

Know about game theory? and prisoners dilema? social evolution is what has over come that. That is why when small birds see a predator coming, one of them will start jumping up and down allterting all the others. Why this altrusitc action? it makes it more likely that that groups genes are passed down because it is less likely the whole lot are caught although the one making all the noise is far more likely to die. Also explains why bees will sting when they know they are going to die and you have "army ants".

Ramble ended.. make any sense?
 

padders

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Oh and i see that natural selection is the mechanism for evolution. Evolution can also occur through, say, eugenics. I do understand that
 
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