battle descriptions

[asher marquering]

ok we all kno in most action novels being fantasy or science fiction of whichever there are usually battles

concerning the description of these battles can there be something such as over-description?

when do you know when u have described the battle (actions and participants) completely?

wat u guys think?

oh lol wasn't sure if i had to post another thread or just edit this one i chose the latter anyway wats ure viewpoints on religion in fantasy is it ok to take a step back from religion or look at religion and "ethical/byblical" laws from a different point of view

 

[j d worthington]

As far as overdescription, that varies with the individual tale. Try to avoid making description of battle tactics, etc., your major focus except in such scenes where it helps to drive the story, helps the reader visualize what's going on and get an overall picture of the issues involved. I'm not well-versed in military sf or fantasy, but plenty of people on these boards are, including some professional writers, agents, editors, etc.

As for religion/biblical issues/laws -- again, depends on what sort of story you're telling. Avoid being overly didactic (i.e., preaching your point of view; you want, as much as possible, to show through your characters rather than bog things down by long expository passages). But as far as conveying your views on such, or even asking questions about the ethics/morality, etc.; that can actually add considerable depth to any type of fiction, be it "mainstream" (whatever that is at the moment), fantasy, science fiction, horror, you name it. But, again, where at all possible, make it work through the characters and incidents rather than "diagramming" for the reader; respect the readers' intelligence enough to figure they'll get the point without being hit over the head with it, that tends to work better.

I noticed you've just recently joined our loony -- er, happy family. Welcome! I look forward to seeing your thoughts on things.

 

[ebarr]

I'd have said how you approach it depends where your character is situated.

I've been trying to do a sci fi piece for months which has several characters on separate ships. While captains and commanders see the battle almost on a shot by shot basis while Admirals see the ebb and flow of the action but not the detail.

I think you have to put yourself into the character and realize what they could physically see.

 

[Hawkshaw_245]

How much detail is enough, and how much is too much?
Well, ask yourself "What does the reader need to know?"

Consider this example.

Europe. 1918. WWI.

Corporal Reggie Donovan peered through his binoculars, out across the hellish wasteland separating the opposing trenches. Somewhere, though he remained an unseen specter, was a German sniper.

Now, do you need to describe every blade of grass, bomb crater, and severed limb in the panoramic view of the landscape? I think not. I think if you put some notable reference points in the scene..like a muddy drainage ditch, a tall, gnarled tree, and perhaps a bombed-out church on hillside, for instance, you can illustrate your scene well.

If Donovan is looking for the sniper, you can discuss details of what he sees. However, a reader would probably bore quickly of unending pages of ugly terrain, and no sighting of the sniper.

I think this would be true. even if the sniper-hunt occurred during an artillery barrage.

You simply need to think about the pivotal events and locations during a given engagement.

Are we talking about large-scale military clashes? Or smaller, man-to-man, squad-to-squad sort of skirmishes?

A balance needs to be struck between the size of the battle, and the details needed to illustrate it.

 

[Susan Boulton]

It's important to remember that if you are writing in limited third POV you can only tell what your character is seeing/doing. You can't give the overall description of the battle from this POV, even if he/she is the general in command. You must tailor your "battle" to suit your character's POV...

You can, however, show the whole battle is you use omniscient third or the narrator's voice. But with this you have to take a step back and only describe what is going on, you can't get into the character's head i.e. his feelings and emotions etc...

Also do some research about the weapons your characters are using, how they were used, the type of battles they were used in. I am tired of reading about 20lb swords that are swung like crow bars. I have handled medieval swords at the Royal Armouries in Leeds, and a short sword weighs in at between 2-3 lb and longsword/broadsword 3-5 lbs... a rapier 3-5 lbs.. These were use with skill not like cricket bats! Same goes with armour and mail research it!!!.

 

[asher marquering]

You can, however, show the whole battle is you use omniscient third or the narrator's voice. But with this you have to take a step back and only describe what is going on, you can't get into the character's head i.e. his feelings and emotions etc...

Also do some research about the weapons your characters are using, how they were used, the type of battles they were used in. I am tired of reading about 20lb swords that are swung like crow bars. I have handled medieval swords at the Royal Armouries in Leeds, and a short sword weighs in at between 2-3 lb and longsword/broadsword 3-5 lbs... a rapier 3-5 lbs.. These were use with skill not like cricket bats! Same goes with armour and mail research it!!!.

ok using that narator view thingy its ok to say for example "the blade draws through his shoulder as he gives a fierce enraged snarl at his attacker" right thats third person i think?

and wat bout the zweihanders i've read they were up to 10lbs and the norse berserker swords were also pretty heavy

 

[j d worthington]

Generally speaking, on the pov, yes. But you should avoid overcoloring and watch your tenses. E.g.: in the example you give, I'd suggest something like: "As the blade was drawn through his shoulder he snarled at his attacker" or, better yet, "he snarled at his attacker as the blade..." Keep it simple and keep the adjectives to a minimum with this sort of prose.

ok using that narator view thingy its ok to say for example "the blade draws through his shoulder as he gives a fierce enraged snarl at his attacker" right thats third person i think?

and wat bout the zweihanders i've read they were up to 10lbs and the norse berserker swords were also pretty heavy

As for the weight of different swords, that depends on the type and also the metal. Steel would be somewhat less weighty than iron, but more durable. Steel is also something that came along much later than iron, is more difficult to produce, etc. Two-handed swords could weigh anywhere from 10 to as much as 20 pounds, depending, though that latter would be stretching it. After all, they'd have to be swinging these things for quite a while, and anything that weighs that much quickly wears a person down. Hand-and-a-half swords were often better, or even ******* swords. You might look up some of the things on arms and armoury through the SCA, or some of the old articles from Amra, which was devoted largely to Robert E. Howard, but also dealt with fantasy in general, and often had very good factual articles on such things. Jerry Pournelle, I think, did a few pieces on various arms for them. There are also different books on the subject and I'm sure that some of these you could probably find through the 'net, maybe via Project Gutenburg, etc.

 

[Hawkshaw_245]

It's important to remember that if you are writing in limited third POV you can only tell what your character is seeing/doing. You can't give the overall description of the battle from this POV, even if he/she is the general in command. You must tailor your "battle" to suit your character's POV...

You can, however, show the whole battle is you use omniscient third or the narrator's voice. But with this you have to take a step back and only describe what is going on, you can't get into the character's head i.e. his feelings and emotions etc...

Also do some research about the weapons your characters are using, how they were used, the type of battles they were used in. I am tired of reading about 20lb swords that are swung like crow bars. I have handled medieval swords at the Royal Armouries in Leeds, and a short sword weighs in at between 2-3 lb and longsword/broadsword 3-5 lbs... a rapier 3-5 lbs.. These were use with skill not like cricket bats! Same goes with armour and mail research it!!!.

Good points. There are things the character would know about, but necessarily SEE or FEEL. He might know about other units that SHOULD be coming over the hill any minute to reinforce his position. BUT THEY'RE LATE!

Knowing the weapons and equipment are key. What does a Vickers machine gun sound like? How heavy is a bronze Spartan shield? It can be daunting, the research required, but it helps immensely to give a feeling of realism to the story as a whole.

Also, one should learn about what effects these weapons would have on the human body. It's grisly, but a viable option for adding authenticity to the work.

 

[asher marquering]

guys please critique my first 2 scenes of a battle thread . . . the battle experts thats wat you guys are

 

[Brian G Turner]

concerning the description of these battles can there be something such as over-description?

Absolutely - ideally, your story will simply cover the character experience of it - and through that, make the battle seem more real.

If you want an example ofthis done really well, check out Frank Herbert's Dune - the invasion of Arrakis is never actually seen, but the character experience of the events makes you feel you've seen it.