"Personal" question(s) to John Jarrold

[Hilarious Joke]

Keep trying, Sylvetra! Remember ,we can try and help you here on the Chron with your prologue.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I was wondering that if an agent asked for more of my book (fingers and toes crossed), would it be all right for me to offer a re-written prologue and a longer word-count?

Send only the best that you are capable of at the time you send it out.

If you sent what you consider the weaker version and it was rejected, wouldn't you always wonder if the agent might have read far enough to be captivated by your plot and characters if only you had sent something that better represents the skill and insight you have gained since you first wrote it? But you would have lost your chance to find out, at least as far as that particular agent was concerned.

My advice is to keep right on revising until the manuscript goes in the mail, unless you are perfectly satisfied that you have the best and final version.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Wow, that's great advice Teresa. I got the impression from some people that editing your manuscript feels like a neverending process, however. Wrong?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Well, some writers think that if they edit too much they will grow stale. In my case, I stop doing (minor) edits only when I send back the page proofs. I don't necessarily recommend that other people take it to that extreme.

But the point is that Sylvetra_Snake's instincts are telling her that she could do much better. I think she would be foolish to send out something that even she doesn't feel is good enough.

When I sent out a synopsis and sample chapters for the first time (no query, no agent, just over the transom and into the slush-pile, because you could do that in those days), I kept on revising while I was waiting for an answer -- then kept right on after I sent the partial to the next editor. When that editor said that she wanted to see the rest, I was ready with a book that I believed was the best I had to offer.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Thanks, Teresa, interesting indeed!

 

[John Jarrold]

I was wondering that if an agent asked for more of my book (fingers and toes crossed), would it be all right for me to offer a re-written prologue and a longer word-count?

I am currently adding to the story to tie up a few loose ends and to extend the word-count a little longer. Also, i felt the prologue lacked a lot of the strength the rest of the book has. I wrote it a long time ago so the style was quite different and weaker as a result.

I don't think it will matter too much as i reckon i will get no's from the agents i have sent it to. No biggy, i think i received about twenty no's on my first ever novel, though i can look back and see why lol. It has been a month as well and no replies so i will move on now. I got the Writer's and Artist's yearbook 2009 and it has many agents in it. See what happens.

I know many agents who do not reply within one month, so your material may well not have been read yet. Apart from that, I echo Teresa's thoughts...

 

[Susan Boulton]

I would echo John, a month is really nothing. I have personally found that the longer it takes to get a reply the further up the chain (with large agencies, that is) you have managed to crawl You have made it through the assistants onto an agent's desk, or as with small agencies there is only so many hours in the day for the agent, and naturally their clients' needs come before reading the latest batch of submissions.

I can sympathise, for the first time in my life I have two novels that have been requested in full. (both only six weeks ago, and I don't expect to hear either a yes or no for a while) I know even now it will be a very long shot if either make it any further, but it is a nice feeling to get this far.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Well, some writers think that if they edit too much they will grow stale. In my case, I stop doing (minor) edits only when I send back the page proofs. I don't necessarily recommend that other people take it to that extreme.

But the point is that Sylvetra_Snake's instincts are telling her that she could do much better. I think she would be foolish to send out something that even she doesn't feel is good enough.

When I sent out a synopsis and sample chapters for the first time (no query, no agent, just over the transom and into the slush-pile, because you could do that in those days), I kept on revising while I was waiting for an answer -- then kept right on after I sent the partial to the next editor. When that editor said that she wanted to see the rest, I was ready with a book that I believed was the best I had to offer.

Teresa/John: This raises the question does the book have to be more or less finished when you send in your sample chapters. Would publishers get pi**ed off if they liked the sample then had to wait for the rest. Like when -as I understand it- people pitch a line at film and TV producers. At the time they only have an idea with no real substance. Presumably this is because they couldn't afford to employ the writers studios and the like to 'make' the programs first only to be laughed of the stage when the pilot was screened. Is it similar in the publishing world.

 

[Sylvetra_Snake]

Perhaps i am being a bit too impatient. Its just at the same time i have been sending my novel out, i have been waiting for jobs to come up cos at the moment, i am only a supervisor at my place, and i want something a bit more challenging. And its my b-day next week, though i will only be 22 so not that important, but it is perfume refill day (i always seem to get a new bottle of perfume from somebody).

Anyway, thanks for the advice, i am glad i have revised the prologue. I guess if one of the two agents reply that they want to see more, i can always offer it along with the original they recieved. Editing the rest will not affect much as they haven't seen it. It is just a little over 100,000 words now, so trying to make it a bit longer.

Fingers, toes, legs and eyes crossed SJAB! Hope it works out.

 

[John Jarrold]

Teresa/John: This raises the question does the book have to be more or less finished when you send in your sample chapters. Would publishers get pi**ed off if they liked the sample then had to wait for the rest. Like when -as I understand it- people pitch a line at film and TV producers. At the time they only have an idea with no real substance. Presumably this is because they couldn't afford to employ the writers studios and the like to 'make' the programs first only to be laughed of the stage when the pilot was screened. Is it similar in the publishing world.

No. Never send out a novel until it is finished and edited - not even 'more or less'!. Editors cannot commission new writers, who have not proved they can finish a book superbly, no matter how good the opening chapters are. So if they do like those chapters and ask for the rest of the book, only to be told it isn't finished, they won't be happy.

 

[Flemcodogmusic]

Hi John,

As an editor, do you ever suggest a lot of cuts to client's work? Or is it more to do with character, plot, pacing, etc?

I know word count has been discussed quite a lot on this thread, but I was just wondering whether there's ever a huge difference between the word count of a published manuscript, and the original submission to an agent /editor ...

 

[John Jarrold]

Yes, I often suggest cuts - in terms of scenes that go on too long, stuff that slows the pace down and stuff that is completely unnecessary - the author being 'clever' or waffling. I know of a number of books that have originally been over 200,000 words being cut to nearer 150,000 ...you do it to make the book work better. Authors can be precious about their prose, even when it actually detracts from the story. Editors are there to be realistic.

 

[Flemcodogmusic]

So have you ever received any submissions, that really shouldn't be novel length? Novels that are basically short-story ideas, with ridiculous amounts of padding?

 

[John Jarrold]

Well, the first thing you look at, as an agent or an editor, is the prose. If the first ten pages don't grab you, you say no and move on. So I daresay some of those 90% of submissions that can be turned down on that basis would have been padded!

 

[Flemcodogmusic]

Thanks John,

Anyway, enough procrastination ... back to the book!

By the way, I've just read this on another site:

"People who exhibit procrastination, appear to be prone to internet addiction."

Hmmm ... I think it's time to seriously re-examine my life!

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Thanks John. Noted

 

[John Jarrold]

We aim to please! The percentage of unagented novels (and quite often those from scattergun agents, too, who bung everything out to everyone, unthinkingly) one can turn down quickly hasn't changed in the last twenty years, for any SFF imprint. It's discussed whenever editors meet. The last time I spoke about it was with people from Gollancz and Orbit ... yep, still 90%.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

When I sold my first book, they said, "We love it, but we want you to cut 10,000 words, since it would cost too much to publish a book that that's long." (I laugh to think of that now that everyone is selling books that are so much longer.)

I thought to myself, "Ten thousand words! I could never find ten thousand surplus words to cut!" And it would have been one thing if they had asked me to make it tighter, but making those cuts to save paper and ink and please the company accountants was another thing entirely.

So having convinced myself that I couldn't do it, I set to work. And as I worked, I discovered that there were indeed things I could cut out without harming the book at all. When I was finished, I found out that I had a book that was about 12,000 words shorter. Do I think the book was better or worse as a result? I sacrificed some things that I really liked, but I could see that I had improved the pace. I think it all balanced out.

 

[John Jarrold]

Yes, I know of UK authors who were asked to cut 20,000 words or more in the US, for exactly that reason, Teresa! And I'm starting to hear it again from the US, but not from the UK...

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

10,000 words was a big chunk for a 110,000 word novel. But what I learned is that it needn't be a matter of cutting out whole sections, as some people think -- although that would certainly be the easy way -- but a word here, a sentence there, a paragraph in another place. It all adds up.

With some of the weighty tomes that people are submitting now, you could take out 20,000 words and never miss them.

(Someone once told me, only half-jokingly, that you can reduce the word count by quite a bit just by eliminating the word "that" where you don't really need it.)