Terry Goodkind

Denie Alconn

Horrible Shrew
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
112
First of all I must apologize to the fans, what I want to discuss might not be to your liking.
Ok, now that is done...
I am a real devotee to his Sword of Truth series, have read all the books that came out so far and must say (and here it goes), has he gotten worse after Faith of the Fallen?
Somehow it seams to me that he is starting to get bored, or maybe running out of ideas...since so much seems to be repeating itself.
I really, really hope it picks up again (in the Chainfire trilogy) because I must admid, Chainfire itself what quite dissapointing.
 

Raven

Corn!
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
365
Location
St Andrews, Fife
Goodkind has been getting worse since book one, which is coincidentally when he ran out of ideas (he started borrowing other writers' ideas in book two: these days he just doesn't bother putting any ideas in). And he has been repeating himself since about book four. The basic plot of the books has been the same since then.

The decline has become particularly apparent since he got it into his head that he has Something Significant To Say, since he now has his mouthpiece Richard spell out his (simplistic and rather adolescent) views on morality, etc. at considerable and unnecessary length every other page. He does not seem to realise that he is, at best, writing standard hack fantasy, not Great Literature, and large dollops of (poorly understood and oversimplified) Objectivist philosophy do not sit well in that context.

Sorry, bit of a rant there. :p
 

Teir

Lost in Thought
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Messages
347
perhaps not 'Great Literature', but entertaining non-the-less Raven:) . But yes Denie Alconn, repitition has become a little obvious. But I personaly dont find it a very huge problem, i enjoy flipping through his work anyway *shrug*.
 

Raven

Corn!
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Feb 15, 2005
Messages
365
Location
St Andrews, Fife
Teir: I found the first book entertaining, the second and third also, heck I even read the fourth and fifth and finished them. But really, is any book Goodkind has written after that really 'entertaining'? How 'entertaining' is it to be treated to three-page rants about morality as TG sees it?

Any entertainment in the later books is usually unintentional - the poverty of the dialogue and description can be quite funny, I'll grant you. ;)
 

direghost

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
88
Okay, I don't want to spam, but there's a board that people who don't quite love goodkind have made. It's hilarious. Laugh-out-loud funny. I don't want to include the link in case it's against the rules but if you want some funny Goodkind parody pm me or something and I'll send the link out.

(I hope this much is okay. I can edit this post of neccessary)
 

MilesVorkosigan

The Little Admiral
Joined
Mar 29, 2005
Messages
16
I LOVED "WIZARDS FIRST RULE" it was fun to read... I liked the characters (Zed Rules ... Toasted Toads Rule !) and just generally felt I didn't waste my time.

* On a sidenote:
My friend has the book stappled to his dart board ... he says he manages to hit the board (with book) now and not the wall ...total loathing and hatred will do that for your aim ... I argued, cried and begged ... he would not relent.....

Then came Stone of Tears ... I could live with it even found it nostalgic (old friends) ... Blood of the Fold .... Temple of the Wind ... Old friends that I could tolerate ... then came SOUL OF THE FIRE (or the other way around ..could careless !)

*On a sidenote:
I bought 5 dartboards about 2 months ago.... my aim has improved greatly
...then again TOTAL UTTER LOATHING, HATE and A GAGGING FEELING AT THE BACK OF THE THROAT for your target will do that for your aim.

Faith of the Fallen, Pillars of Creation, Naked Empire, Chainfire ... Old friends that you only keep around out of loyalty for old times sake (and a perverse pleasure in seeing the total utter demise of something falling into the....ABYSS).

*On a sidenote:
My friend and I recently won the Amateur Darts Championship of our region ... we agreed whole heartedly to thank the person most responsible for our success .... YOU THE MAN TERRY ! :p
 

Brys

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
813
direghost said:
Hmm, guess I can't edit. Well if anyone wants to see a parody Goodkind board, here it is: http://1.myfreebulletinboard.com/demonspawn.html
There is a bit of crap but some (I think) geniunely funny stuff on there as well.

The legacy of the Martin forums .. excellent board. Goodkind is perhaps the best supplier of comedy in the fantasy genre - both in his books, but more importantly, outside of his books. (By the way, that parody board isn't actually so different to the official Goodkind boards - scary, as it's only a slight exaggeration). It was set up in 20 minutes, and the first ten people or something who joined were given moderator/admin powers on a completely arbitrary basis. It's provided hours of entertainment - I think Bakker's got a great description of it:

Sorry.. Can't stop laughing. Just checked out the 'Goodkind is God' site.

*wipes tears from eyes*

You know you've made the big leagues when... Really, if I were him, I would be flattered.

It's just started becoming more active again as well - really brilliant. The best ones are where they have some real fans posting there - it seems that numbers increased as well. A couple have even realised that it's a true parody (eg Books to Avoid is actually books they're recommending - so if you know, it's hilarious when someone tries to defend why Mieville is good against a stream of pure, unthinking vitriol - actually, that's not true, there's a lot of thought involved in trying to imitate a completely different character to yourself I assume).

Goodkind's interviews are worth checking out as well - incredibly entertaining, especially his views on fantasy and people who don't like his books. If you don't enjoy Goodkind's books, my advice is look at them from a different angle - look at how terrible the writing is, and it can take on a whole new hilarious tone. Eg on the Martin forums a member started at about page 10 of Wizard's First Rule and just did a commentary on it - the actual writing was hilarious.For example, Goodkind talks about a place called Blunt Mountain, so named for it's sheer clifface (anything's possible in Goodkind's world), which happens to have a path running along it halfway up (again, the normal laws of our world don't have to be obeyed in Goodkind) and he conveniently provides us with helpful descriptions of the size of all the characters, leading to my favourite Goodkind quote from one of his novels:
Richard was bigger than most men. These men were bigger than him.

As soon as you start looking for the comedy, it's immediately apparent.
 

Teir

Lost in Thought
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Messages
347
Raven said:
Teir: I found the first book entertaining, the second and third also, heck I even read the fourth and fifth and finished them. But really, is any book Goodkind has written after that really 'entertaining'? How 'entertaining' is it to be treated to three-page rants about morality as TG sees it?

Any entertainment in the later books is usually unintentional - the poverty of the dialogue and description can be quite funny, I'll grant you. ;)

There is a way around this...If you look back you will see that i said 'flip' through his work...just dont read the boring bits lol. I personally have a problem when the story diverts from Richard for chapters on end:) Pillars of Creation didnt do it for me at all cos of this
 

the_faery_queen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2005
Messages
1,096
i wish i could hve found them funny. :( i found them misognistic and offensive and deeply disturbing! i took his violence to women FAR too seriously and i can't stomach him in anyway. he's vile!

as for his interviews, they're also disturbing! the idea that he cannot possible even comphrend WHY someone dislikes him, and the way he thinks he is better than most other fantasy wriers, is totally unsettling.

but for me, he's proof that ANYONE can make it in the fantasy world! rip off other writers, abuse women, have no original ideas and reuse the ones you do have, and you can still have fans and make cash. great news for those of us with some new ideas and a bit of talent :)
 

Jason_Taverner

Fish Proder
Joined
Sep 4, 2005
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658
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block H cell 13
well I got to faith of the fallen but I did have them given to me for free they weren't the best but I do agree with faery queen the sexually violence was excessive
 

rune

rune
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Messages
1,767
Ive stopped reading this series now, I should of stopped at book 4 but went on a little longer than that in the hopes that it would improve. I think Goodkind should finish this series and move onto something else.
 

hedgeknight

Dunk the Lunk
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
270
Location
NC
I loved Wizard's First Rule - absolutely loved it!
And sad to say, have been slightly disappointed since then. I liked Stone of Tears, Temple of the Winds, and Blood of the Fold (really liked this one - don't ask me why), and managed to survive Faith of the Fallen. But gave up after that - just a waste of time and paper with nothing resolved. And I appreciate writers tossing in some of their philosophy on life here and there, but going off on a 10-page rant is f***ing ridiculous! :mad:

Now, I also recommend "A Debt of Bones" which can be found on its own or in the Legends anthology - very good story, pre-Richard.

My advice for those of you who bought the first edition hardcovers (like I did) - sell them! Made a killing on eBay! :p
The only one I kept was Wizard's First Rule - did I mention that I love it? ;)
-g-
 

Shoegaze99

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
337
Raven said:
He does not seem to realise that he is, at best, writing standard hack fantasy, not Great Literature, and large dollops of (poorly understood and oversimplified) Objectivist philosophy do not sit well in that context.
There is no question he doesn't realize this, and that he in fact believes he is writing Great And Important Literature. Some time a year or so ago I posted some interview excerpts culled from his website which I found simply hilarious. I'll have to dig up those posts.
 

Shoegaze99

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
337
Got it. Here is the old thread regarding Goodkind. really, give it a read. Brian quotes some text from a fan chat that will just blow your mind.

Man, seeing some of those quotes is great. The guy is hilarious!

In an Internet chat a reader notes his characters names; Goodkind responds, "[FONT=&quot]Thank you for noticing that I put a lot of thought into my characters' names.."[/FONT]

This from a guy with characters called Zedd and Richard.

[FONT=&quot] He says that publishers want more books like his but can't find them because "copying innovation is an impossibility." What's innovative about his work, I don't know, but there you have it.

And: "
[/FONT]First of all, I don't write fantasy. I write stories that have important human themes."
[FONT=&quot]
And my favorite:
[/FONT][FONT=&quot] "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]What I have done with my work has irrevocably changed the face of fantasy. In so doing I've raised the standards. I have not only injected thought into a tired empty genre, but, more importantly, I've transcended it showing what more it can be-and is so doing spread my readership to completely new groups who don’t like and wont ready typical fantasy."

Let me repeat that, folks:
[/FONT][FONT=&quot] "[/FONT][FONT=&quot]What I have done with my work has irrevocably changed the face of fantasy. In so doing I've raised the standards. I have not only injected thought into a tired empty genre, but, more importantly, I've transcended it showing what more it can be-and is so doing spread my readership to completely new groups who don’t like and wont ready typical fantasy."

AWESOME!
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 

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