Thoughts on World War I

Haven’t really read it but I found this site, it might help.
The British Empire
That's sort of exactly what I was talking about. The author, who obviously knows the material, starts off by saying the British Empire (note the capitalization) was the "... largest formal empire that the world had ever known." He does not address the question of what constitutes an empire; a curious omission given his use of the word "formal."

Look, I know this is picking nits, but if we're going to tag WWI (trying desperately to tie back to the thread subject) or any other event as key in the "decline and fall of the British Empire" we ought to be able to identify what constitutes an empire. As that article noted, the Colonial Office was not dissolved until 1966. One could argue that the Colonial Office (as early as 1854) marks the creation of a formal empire even more than does Queen Victoria taking on the title in 1877.

Like everyone else, I'm accustomed to referring to the British Empire as if it were a thing. The more I consider this thread, though, the more the phrase feels like a metaphor than a reality, exactly in the way people speak of the Athenian Empire or indeed the American Empire. It's a metaphor for widespread influence, usually with a hint of paternalism at best and exploitation at worst. And, of course, a metaphor is utterly indifferent to the methods of historians.
 
That's sort of exactly what I was talking about. The author, who obviously knows the material, starts off by saying the British Empire (note the capitalization) was the "... largest formal empire that the world had ever known." He does not address the question of what constitutes an empire; a curious omission given his use of the word "formal."

Look, I know this is picking nits, but if we're going to tag WWI (trying desperately to tie back to the thread subject) or any other event as key in the "decline and fall of the British Empire" we ought to be able to identify what constitutes an empire. As that article noted, the Colonial Office was not dissolved until 1966. One could argue that the Colonial Office (as early as 1854) marks the creation of a formal empire even more than does Queen Victoria taking on the title in 1877.

Like everyone else, I'm accustomed to referring to the British Empire as if it were a thing. The more I consider this thread, though, the more the phrase feels like a metaphor than a reality, exactly in the way people speak of the Athenian Empire or indeed the American Empire. It's a metaphor for widespread influence, usually with a hint of paternalism at best and exploitation at worst. And, of course, a metaphor is utterly indifferent to the methods of historians.

At one point in history the British Empire controlled about 1/3 of the world . The Sun quite literary never set on the British Empire.
 
Thanks for the redirect, WarriorMouse.

Wiser? I'd say few today believe the rhetoric of the time--a war to end wars, a war for democracy. This doesn't prevent us from using the same rhetoric again--we do not lightly change our gods--but as applied specifically to WWI, we got hip to that jive already in the 1920s. And it wasn't the historians, it was the journalists and writers of literature who exposed the war to the public. The historians are better at things like underlying causes (it's never *only* about power and money). We also know a great deal more about the progress of the war, about events during it, about the home front, and about the changes both immediate and long-term the conflict wrought. Nor do I think we are done. WWI will increasingly get lumped with WWII, and the whole half-century (or so) stretch will be presented as a single narrative in future classes. "Conflict in the 20th Century" or the like.

The nominative in that sentence deserves a bit of attention. Just who is the "we" getting wiser? I'm guessing the implication was politicians, but politicians don't get wiser, they only get re-elected. John Q. Public, see previous sentence but without the election clause. "We" in a very non-specific sentence did try to get wiser. We made a League of Nations, wrote some rules about chemical weapons and treatment of prisoners and civilians, and tried to punish the wrong-doers (as defined by the victors). None of that worked very well, people being people.

Marc Bloch, in one of his many excellent books (in The Historian's Craft, I think), quotes an Arab saying:
Men resemble their times more than their fathers.
Whenever people start talking about learning from the past, this tenet comes at once into my mind. I like the saying. It has the aridity of the desert.
 
Go's back to page 1 and Baylors thread start question. huh... um?...

Baylor's comment on the British Empire and it's relationship to WW1 was perfectly valid. He actually tagged it onto a comment he made earlier about the impact WW1 had on the other Empires that were centre stage and what happened to them.

We don't mind threads wandering around a bit, and in this case I don't see what the problem is, other then if we were to veer off for 40 posts nit-picking on dictionary and historical terms that don't mention WW1, but even then I don't think there's a problem in going a few posts "off-piste", 'cause generally they are interesting topics. (If they get too big - then just start a new thread topic).
 
Anyone seen Peter Jackson film They Shall Not Grow Old ?
 
Anyone seen Peter Jackson film They Shall Not Grow Old ?
Not yet.

It's in my TBV (DVDs to be viewed) pile**.


** - It isn't much of a pile -- I don't buy many DVDs -- so I'll probably be watching it when the nights have drawn in a bit.
 
Not yet.

It's in my TBV (DVDs to be viewed) pile**.


** - It isn't much of a pile -- I don't buy many DVDs -- so I'll probably be watching it when the nights have drawn in a bit.

Based on the clips that ive seen. It's an impressive achievement.
 
As an American, this was not a conflict our nation should ever have engaged in. With a health economy and our own social and political problems to deal with, it would have been wise for the U.S. to keep its nose out of the Old World's business.

But, OH NO, this guy just HAD to butt in...

54551


Thomas Woodrow Wilson. King George V called him a cold, odious man, and when a British monarch calls you stuffy and arrogant and DOESN'T come off as a hypocrite at all, you know this guy had issues. This was a man who...

-Claimed God ordained him to be President during his inauguration speech, and no-one could have stopped him.
-Intervened politically and militarily more than any other President had before in foreign campaigns.
-Championed the Sedition Act in 1918, which made any criticism of the war or the government's handling of it, no matter how minuscule, punishable by up to DEATH!
-Imposed a litany of broken nanny state policies including Prohibition and the current system of income tax collection that still exist today (which is strictly illegal by Constitutional law.)
-And lied blatantly about not shipping munitions to the Allies (cruise ships don't explode like that when a torpedo hits unless your underbelly is packed to the gills with bullets and artillery shells.)

Thanks to Woody, not only did he use WWI as an excuse to erode European (especially British) power abroad and officially shed the lie America was not an imperial power, almost every single president since Wilson's term runs the same playbook when it comes to pushing our weight around overseas.

The only nation that truly came out with a W in WWI was the United States.

And in a lot of ways, the rest of the world's been a poorer place for it.
 
As a historian I like to remind people Wilson was a historian (to be fair, he was more political scientist that historian). As a medievalist, I like to point out that Charles Homer Haskins sat on the committee that helped redraw the map of Europe after World War One.

Higher education don't guarantee nothing, do it?
 
As a historian I like to remind people Wilson was a historian (to be fair, he was more political scientist that historian). As a medievalist, I like to point out that Charles Homer Haskins sat on the committee that helped redraw the map of Europe after World War One.

Higher education don't guarantee nothing, do it?

He's easily was one the worst Presidents we ever had and we have the Theodore Roosevel to thank for him getting into office.
 
Not yet.

It's in my TBV (DVDs to be viewed) pile**.


** - It isn't much of a pile -- I don't buy many DVDs -- so I'll probably be watching it when the nights have drawn in a bit.
Just another person telling you that's it brilliant.

The transition between the unaltered stock footage and the new coloured and frame corrected stuff takes your breath away.

I did notice that it pilfered quite a few of the soldier's reminisces from the fantastic BBC series 'The Great War' but that's not a negative.
 

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