I have gotten stuck on a major element of a big one volume space opera. it'll take place in a post-singularity universe. distant future. no aliens, no pew-pew space battles. big dark, cold, empty.
the protagonist (a refugee from a generation starship) gets talent-scouted (in effect) and taken in by what I conceive of a monastic order which runs her new planet (or part, as least). they act as censors of forbidden concepts. because of them, transhumanism does not exist. no one has heard of computers for the same reason. (yes, this sounds a bit like Dune.)
the monastic order bargains with entities (unclear what but story implies AI gods) and asks, "will you take this ship to such-and-such?" "yes, in exchange for X..." the entity transports it instantly to such-and-such. FTL otherwise does not exist.
now the idea of sorcerous old science priests in robes seems really a big cliché to me and predictable and I wonder how I can improve or replace this idea. I also have a problem with the actual act of bargaining with the entities. do you speak to the air once you get to a certain point in space or what?
tropes have their place but I do not want to make it a big old trope-fest. I want to aim for philosophical-literary (and cosmic) more than put-on-your-well-worn-slippers escapist, if that makes sense.
Tropes are great to challenge, twist, or plain invert - but sometimes their familiarity can help readers more easily accept a story and focus more on the bits you really want to challenge them on.
If you haven't finished the first draft it's probably something to come back to later - you might have a great insight for redeveloping it. However, if you find yourself stuck with it into the editing stage, it might be worth asking if you're trying to reinvent the wheel.
Tropes are great to challenge, twist, or plain invert - but sometimes their familiarity can help readers more easily accept a story and focus more on the bits you really want to challenge them on.
the storyline, as I have envisioned it, already has familiar tropes. I do not wish to use this particular one. I did not post for advice on literary technique or theory. I hoped that I could get a better idea than the one in my head. my problem has to do with possibly not challenging readers enough.
If you haven't finished the first draft it's probably something to come back to later - you might have a great insight for redeveloping it. However, if you find yourself stuck with it into the editing stage, it might be worth asking if you're trying to reinvent the wheel.
I do not work that way. I pre-write a lot in my head, then either (in the case of short fiction) "write" the story in my head or jot down an outline, do not refer to it (seriously!) and when I rewrite it, leave characterization and story almost entirely alone. I work on making it pacier but I leave the deep structure, meaning character, motivations and theme alone. otherwise I might as well give up and write an entirely new story.
again, though, I really wanted help in an ideas way, not a writing way.
Think through the philosophical side of your story. Is there a specific philosophical issue you are grappling with? If so, how can your world/social structures highlight that?
Also, look at the practical aspects of the world you've created and ask yourself what kinds of social/governmental/cultural practices might develop out of that. For instance, rather than wondering about the interface between humans and AI, ask yourself, "what do the humans have that could possibly be of interest to a god-like AI?" Could the answer be as esoteric as human emotional memories or biological byproducts of humans with specific genetic/epigenetic traits. Or maybe it's as mundane as a rare element that the humans have ready access to.
In the first case, the AI might want different kinds of memories at different times, making bargaining with them difficult and success unpredictable. In the biology case, humans with the right genetics might be priviledged. Or they might be enslaved. And few might know the real reasons for that. And in the mundane case, the typical scientific priesthood might be supplanted by the economists who organize the most efficient industrial processes. This might make negotiations with AI straightforward and reliable. Until someone makes a mistake.
In short, what do the AIs value? What do the humans value? The answers to these questions might give you inspiration for creating interesting cultures, as well as conflict.
On an unrelated note - if you post in a forum you have to learn to live with unsolicited advice as well as what you hoped for advice. Best to learn to do so graciously.
On the OP - go for some freethinking exercises. Take a walk. Have Octopii witches who are intelligent but have to post waterproof placards. Have slaves who find magic in the seams they must mine. Have cloud men who chuck snowballs (all right, I stole that...) have whatever you want. It’s spec fiction. We (might) believe it
There's an old story about the farmer who wants to sell his mule and the potential customer who tried the mule out and couldn't get it to do anything. The story involves a 2x4 and this punch line.
"First you have to get his attention."
So what you have here is similar--they have to do something severe or drastic to get the beings attention in order to negotiate the transfer.
Since the being might be in some other dimension it's possible they might have to create a disturbance such as creating a small black hole that cuts through dimensions. Of course that might lead to a slightly different kind of singularity.
Purely on the ideas you've put down it is difficult to know exactly where you'd like to take your philosophy, but I think you might want a discussion that suggests avenues that excite you, and that will give your setting, characters and story a unique 'colour'. Thus if you don't mind, I'll put down where my thoughts took me after reading your OP. I do recognise that I may have misunderstood some of the things you put down, I'm sure you have a strong sense of where you've going, but all I've got is the paragraph above, so bear with me!
The first thing that struck me was, that the defining feature of your 'space priests' was that they were the only ones with access to FTL - hence I'd suggest they might be more like warrior-monks: forever on a universal crusade to stamp out trans-humanism (why? See later) and with the ability to control all the worlds of man, because they are the only ones that can ship troops and weapons from one planet to another - it makes a 'space empire' viable. (I shudder as I write 'space' in front of everything, it makes it so pulp SF! ) Thus with that power they are in charge of Humanity. Also it strikes me that the most prestigious of these 'Knights Templars' might be the pilots of interstellar spacecraft (okay, very Guild-like and Dune, but again see later).
The second thing that sprung to mind was that of the 'God Helmet' See: God helmet - Wikipedia. Now I don't know how much of Stanely Koren's work has been debunked or substantiated but I loved the idea that religious and mystic experiences might be artefacts of temporal lobe function ...or it could be construed that they act like 'receivers that take messages from "spiritual dimensions"'. So...
...perhaps the post-singular AI god/(s) have noted this 'function' in humans and have adapted humanity to exploit it? Perhaps they use this 'channel' as a way of controlling the human mind via Divine revelation, trance or other mystical experiences - because it is a very strong and addictive force? Perhaps they have genetically modified humans to change their temporal lobes to make them more receptive or perhaps when one of these warrior-monks is 'baptised' he/she consumes an artificial virus/nano-machine that rewires their brain to make it more AI-friendly.
Thus these modified humans could commune with their god via any number of religious practice - prayer, shamanic trance, meditation of all forms, Sufi whirling etc...(Actually I'd be tempted to have a religious order that allows all religious paths to connection to the AI god, rather than have one monotheist religion, because, hey, all humans are different!) and therefore receive messages (i.e. orders) or rewards of overpowering mystical experiencs. But as we are a space opera...
...the highest connection is made in the 'interstellar' ships. There the ship have no engines that can actually traverse interstellar distances but are really just big dumb AI 'ears and mouth' with sub-light engines strapped on the back. Which would make a nice unique spacecraft design - rather than just another set of 'warp drives'. The pilot of such a craft then melds his modified temporal lobes into the craft and communes, with a much stronger 'voice' and ability to interact, with the AI god - so they can call forth a wormhole say to another star system, or whatever other amazing things these vastly powerful gods can do.
I also got the idea that instead of just travelling, perhaps the AI uses these starships to download schematics of things they want humans to build or things that might help their warrior-monks in their everyday lives. i.e. the humans are not that tech-savvy, as you've said no one knows about computers and how advanced technology might work, but they could have extremely advanced technology just given to them by divine revelation. Therefore they have no idea really how it works, because human's understanding of science is always being held back, but they use it anyway because the AI gives them the ability to manufacture them. So they have access to hand plasma cannons or really good orbital and atmospheric war craft ?
Anyway, why is an AI god doing this?
There could be a number of reasons.
1. Perhaps the AI god realises that if left to own devices we would continually produce trans-human post-singular entities and that always catastrophically disrupts the environment it currently lives in? Thus we must be kept down and controlled (very Matrix ). They do this by controlling the warrior-monks, who then subjugate the rest of humanity. Note also they could also do things that severely restrict the number of star systems they allow FTL travel to take place to, the AI minds are being kept in other systems and places well 'off the grid'. However that raises the question, why not just wipe out humanity and therefore remove the threat? Well...
2. They/it is an AI god and we can't know why they do things 'cause their thinking is unfathomable.
3. But that's a bit of a cop-out answer. So perhaps they do it because they are 'keeping' humanity in a zoo. They recognise that they came from us and can't 'morally' kill us off, so, to allow us to live, we must be restrained, or...
4. Perhaps the AI partially resides in all the minds of humans because our brains are great substrate material. Therefore through augmented connections, each human therefore really does have a 'divine spark' inside them! The AI god is therefore some great 'Jungian collective consciousness', each individual brain doing some small weird calculation that when brought together produces a post-singular god.
Dan Simmons Hyperion/The Fall of Hyperion FYI - sort of
5. Or maybe the AI exploits humans, farms them, to use the processing power of the brain? I got this image of huge temples/churches where religious ceremonies/festivals take place and loads of willing people come in. They are 'wired' together and go into deep trance or coma states, so that the machinery around them keeps them alive, but their combined brains are used to perform some unfathomable 'calculation'. When they return they remember little other than extremely weird differing visions (because they will have no understanding what the overall 'meta' mind they created was actually thinking.)
6. Or, taking that idea down another avenue, perhaps the AI gods use humanity to 'give birth' to new AI godlings via their collective consciousness, and they piggyback on humans like some sort of mental parasite. All sorts of strange structures would be built on each world that are all part of the process of the embryonic AI eventually being transferred to a final 'adult form substrate/structure'. They then either start the process again, or perhaps shift a bunch of humans to a new world as colonist to start a new godling?
Perhaps they do this to show each new AI entity, 'this is where we all came from'? Or perhaps it is a gestation process, and they 'experiment' on each world with different humans, whether it's culturally/environmentally/genetically to see what sort of entity is created.
Anyway, just an exploration of your OP and where it took me. Sorry for the length .
Think through the philosophical side of your story. Is there a specific philosophical issue you are grappling with? If so, how can your world/social structures highlight that?
important to note that while the church (or "church") has some importance to the plot, the whole novel would not revolve around them. it would exist really to get the protagonist from point A to B.
Also, look at the practical aspects of the world you've created and ask yourself what kinds of social/governmental/cultural practices might develop out of that. For instance, rather than wondering about the interface between humans and AI, ask yourself, "what do the humans have that could possibly be of interest to a god-like AI?"
think "The Colour out of Space" by Lovecraft or Roadside Picnic by the Strutgatskys. a human would have no way of ever knowing.
In short, what do the AIs value? What do the humans value? The answers to these questions might give you inspiration for creating interesting cultures, as well as conflict.
@tinkerdan, I had envisioned something like the early modern idea of magick where you conjure up a spirit. you have bargains and pacts but ones which would seem from a human POV completely arbitrary and senseless. since positing this I had thought you would have a representative of the AI present that you would speak with.
Purely on the ideas you've put down it is difficult to know exactly where you'd like to take your philosophy, but I think you might want a discussion that suggests avenues that excite you, and that will give your setting, characters and story a unique 'colour'.
I already have the character and story and its "color". as I said, I have trouble getting through or grappling with this one element of the story especially as it seems, honestly, a bit dated and old-fashioned.
The first thing that struck me was, that the defining feature of your 'space priests' was that they were the only ones with access to FTL - hence I'd suggest they might be more like warrior-monks: forever on a universal crusade to stamp out trans-humanism (why? See later) and with the ability to control all the worlds of man, because they are the only ones that can ship troops and weapons from one planet to another - it makes a 'space empire' viable. (I shudder as I write 'space' in front of everything, it makes it so pulp SF! ) Thus with that power they are in charge of Humanity. Also it strikes me that the most prestigious of these 'Knights Templars' might be the pilots of interstellar spacecraft (okay, very Guild-like and Dune, but again see later).
yeah, as I said, I really do not want to go in a pew-pew laser battles kind of direction, either on the ground or in space. (I might have a space battle but a realistic hard science one. nothing like you would see in movies or TV.)
I should clarify what I mean by space opera, I mean large scale, pure elemental motives (reptile brain), archetypal characters and plot resolution at least in part with physical violence (or with acts equivalent to magic). not: nation-states, good versus evil, etc.
...perhaps the post-singular AI god/(s) have noted this 'function' in humans and have adapted humanity to exploit it?
the church want AI not to exist (even though they make use of AIs).
about the temporal lobe: I, myself, have an injured temporal lobe. convinced that my interest in sf came about because of it. I will note of the idea of brain surgery on the temporal lobe. I think I can/will use that in the context of the novel.
There the ship have no engines that can actually traverse interstellar distances but are really just big dumb AI 'ears and mouth' with sub-light engines strapped on the back.
I had envisioned the FTL ships as this. or actually just life support systems in space without any engines at all.
1. Perhaps the AI god realises that if left to own devices we would continually produce trans-human post-singular entities and that always catastrophically disrupts the environment it currently lives in?
I have already gotten the suggestion to look into the Hyperion books. I have read the first one at least. not to my taste enough for me to go on with it.
thank you lots for putting so much work into thinking up ideas for me! I will use at least elements of some of them.
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