Henry Kuttner

Contento lists a number of stories by Kuttner that I don't have, but that seem to have been liked by more than one editor of an anthology --

http://www.philsp.com/homeville/isfac/s144.htm#A2609

Does anyone like any of these that are not sword and sorcery, Lovecraftian, or farce?

VideoChrist said:

In that other thread, J-Sun, you wrote:

"Agreed - he [Kuttner] was long considered the far more major author over Moore and, while I'm not remotely disputing the validity of it because her known solo stuff is brilliant, Moore's relative star (she was always well-regarded individually) mostly rose in post-feminist revisionism."

I'm not sure what "post-feminism revisionism" is, exactly, but evidently the movement began a half-century ago, in 1962, spearheaded (so to say) by that noted post-feminist, Sam Moskowitz.

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Based on my text which I'm presented with, I hope I meant "after feminism, came revision" - I'm not aware of anything called "post-feminism", either. And I'm not saying (a) there weren't isolated examples like Moskowitz prior to or alongside this (anymore than Moskowitz was influenced by de Beauvoir's 1949 book) or (b) that I might not be plain wrong. It's just my impression that the popular impression of their relative magnitudes changed more in the 60s and on from the general idea in the 40s and 50s. I mean, like I say, people credit Moore with works she herself has refused credit for. This isn't to say she might not have her own reasons for this and it's certainly not to say that her solo works (as near as they can be determined) aren't superb. (IOW, I'm not trying to imply anything anti-feminist - it's just my association with the historical changes.) And, again, definitely not that Moore wasn't a big name in her own right from the very start. Just that Kuttner isn't chopped liver, either.

I listed five "Padgett" stories -- are these all certainly Kuttner-Moore collaborations?

After Kuttner and Moore were married (1940), it's virtually impossible to determine whether any given story was written solely by one or the other. Kuttner and Moore themselves made contradictory comments about this in some cases, in the rare instances where they identified who wrote what. Even with stories they both agreed were written by only one or the other, the other may have had significant input, even if it was just in discussing or plotting the story. It's fun to speculate, though.

dask said:

I remember reading a story in Isaac Asimov's Nightfall collection and laughed so hard I couldn't stop. Unfortunately I can't remember the title. John Sladek is pretty darn funny too.

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Extollager said:

I have a prejudice against humorous sf that has prevented me from trying some things that I might like. I guess what I have read in this vein usually hasn't done much for me. The sense of humor and the sense of wonder probably don't go together very well most of the time.

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On the very real chance I seemed hopelessly out of touch with what thread was being dealt with here, this specific quote is what I was responding to. I realized much too late I had neglected to quote it in my earlier post.

Extollager said:

I have a prejudice against humorous sf that has prevented me from trying some things that I might like. I guess what I have read in this vein usually hasn't done much for me. The sense of humor and the sense of wonder probably don't go together very well most of the time.

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I gave "A Gnome There Was," which I had avoided before, a try last night; read several pages. I'd have liked to like it. This story has been reprinted a number of times -- The Best of Henry Kuttner, The Fantasy Hall of Fame, The Golden Years of Science Fiction, and more. But I couldn't finish it. Apparently there's some deficiency in me.

(Co)incidentally, happy birthday to Henry Kuttner, who would be 97 today.

Imagine what we might have (and what CL Moore we might have) if he hadn't died in 1958 and Moore hadn't quit then (she lived to 1987).

J-Sun said:

(Co)incidentally, happy birthday to Henry Kuttner, who would be 97 today.

Imagine what we might have (and what CL Moore we might have) if he hadn't died in 1958 and Moore hadn't quit then (she lived to 1987).

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He is one year older than Jack Vance which is shocking to me being born in 1915. I thought he was as old as Robert. E Howard and co one generation older than Vance. I finished Robot collection and started Face by Vance and saw they are almost as old. Vance wrote 100s of novels,stories after pulp SF era. He didnt grow up as young writer of pulp era.

Kuttner could been much more prolific if he became older than 40s. I haven't read much Kuttner myself but its wrong to say he leaned on support for Howard,HPL,Moore etc. They didn't write those classic stories of him for him. Sure Elak is not Conan or Fritz Leiber S&S but its not like Kuttner is remembered for S&S or horror like HPL type.

Not entirely true, Conn. At least some of his horror tales have remained as (sometimes minor) classics in the field: "The Graveyard Rats" (a title which others also used, by the way); "Hydra", which was one of his tales in the Lovecraftian Mythos vein; and a few others.

Incidentally... I have HPL's letters to Kuttner and, while HPL may not have written his early stories for him, he gave him one hell of a lot of good advice and a pretty thorough basic course in history for the sorts of things he was writing at the time, especially the tale which would become "The Salem Horror"....

Like others (Bloch, for example), he grew beyond that, but I don't think Kuttner would have ever disagreed that he owed an enormous debt to Lovecraft for helping him to become the writer he did eventually become. That seems to be the case with a fair number of those who corresponded with the Old Gent; he was enormously patient and kind, and willing to go to any lengths to help develop talent in others where he saw it....

j. d. worthington said:

Not entirely true, Conn. At least some of his horror tales have remained as (sometimes minor) classics in the field: "The Graveyard Rats" (a title which others also used, by the way); "Hydra", which was one of his tales in the Lovecraftian Mythos vein; and a few others.

Incidentally... I have HPL's letters to Kuttner and, while HPL may not have written his early stories for him, he gave him one hell of a lot of good advice and a pretty thorough basic course in history for the sorts of things he was writing at the time, especially the tale which would become "The Salem Horror"....

Like others (Bloch, for example), he grew beyond that, but I don't think Kuttner would have ever disagreed that he owed an enormous debt to Lovecraft for helping him to become the writer he did eventually become. That seems to be the case with a fair number of those who corresponded with the Old Gent; he was enormously patient and kind, and willing to go to any lengths to help develop talent in others where he saw it....

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Of course he wrote some good horror stories like most pulp authors he had publish in other genres to survive. I mean he wrote detective stories too. I didnt he didnt write anything good outside SFF field but that he is remembered as Science Fiction and Science Fantasy author. He isnt classic horror writer like HPL or wrote hailed classic horror stories like some Howard stories. That he wrote Lovercraftain mythos is a minor detail of his reputation today.

Also there are many authors who helped each other grow but that post feminist critic or whoever made it sound like HPL or Moore crafted his stories for him. Helping each other with ideas, for support is far from that. You have to give credit for the writer himself for his craft and not people he talked to in letters.

Not quite what I was getting at with the latter point. My point was that, in this case (as with others, such as Bloch, Leiber, Long, etc.), HPL was a very important formative influence. He had a great deal to do with moving these writers from eager but often crude amateurs into professional writers who quickly gained stature in their fields. With him, it was much more than it tends to be with most correspondences between writers, because he went to lengths which, for any modern professional writer, would be completely insane. This could mean anything between pages and pages of long, detailed corrections of misinformation or improvements on prose and structure, to rewriting lengthy passages -- not to be published as such, but as examples on how to improve the flow of the narrative, etc. And he would do this with not one or two stories, but story after story after story, reducing the amount as he saw the writer developing mroe and more their own abilities.

This is not to say that Kuttner*wouldn't have made it without such help, but it almost certainly saved him several years of learning the hard way, thus allowing him a good many more productive years as a professional writer with his own voice. I suppose one could say that Lovecraft gave a tremendous legs-up to several writers without either wishing or attempting to dominate them, but rather wishing to save them the sort of mistakes so many (including himself) go through, and because he so loved literature that he wished to aid any creative talent in that field as much as he humanly could, often at considerable cost to himself.

As for the bit concerning horror tales... my point there is that he is, at least in some circles, remembered for some of those as well as his sf, and at times with reason.

*or the others, for that matter, though Bloch has come very close to stating he owed his career as a writer to HPL's tutelary aid, and Leiber and others have also expressed such sentiments at times.

j. d. worthington said:

As for the bit concerning horror tales... my point there is that he is, at least in some circles, remembered for some of those as well as his sf, and at times with reason.

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I agree with that but I think Connavar's closer to "the truth". I mean, John D. MacDonald wrote SF (some of which is anthologized) but he's a spy writer. Leinster wrote everything under the sun but is an SF writer if we're picking one adjective. Etc. It's only my impression but, in 1938, he might have been a horror writer and people started reprinting all the Elak/Raynor/etc. stuff in the 90s (or so) leading to a resurgence in the horror aspect but that, for his active career of the 40s and 50s he was an SF writer and his rep from the 60s-80s was pretty exclusively that and I don't see any compelling argument to revise that. But, yeah, it's definitely not to dismiss the fact that he did do horror (or mystery) or that it wasn't vitally important in getting him started.

But this is the same discussion as was on the other thread.

Extollager said:

That's a little vague, J-Sun

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Unfortunately, my memory sucks, it's been awhile, and my notes also suck. All I can find is that I liked 15 of 17 stories in The Best of Henry Kuttner (not a bad batting average) but I only mention one of the two exceptions as "What You Need". Then I particularly liked "Piggy Bank" (from the Boucher treasury, I think - I've liked most everything I've seen in major anthologies, IIRC) and, about Robots Have No Tales (which you don't care about) I said, "You can definitely see how Harry Gerber of Rucker's Master of Time and Space is descended from Gallegher and the part in the opening of MTS that blew me away is right out of the close of "Time Locker" at the end of Robots. I'd have to say Gallegher Plus is probably the best but "The World Is Ours" is right by it and "Time Locker" is right by it. Next would probably be "The Proud Robot" and "Ex Machina" wasn't really bad and, encountered alone, might be fine but struck me as the least of these. They are generally excellent light SF with good batty ideas and the occasional serious observation. I'm not generally big on comic SF but this has some good stuff in it."

I jotted that down 13 years ago and it's still true that, other than The Stainless Steel Rat and some Kuttner and Rucker and maybe a few others, I'm not big on light, comic SF either so maybe this stuff would work for you as well as for me?

I read "Housing Problem" and "Nothing but Gingerbread Left" in The Best of Henry Kuttner. These are genuinely clever stories! (I wonder if the latter influenced Leiber's "Rump-Titty-Titty-Tum-TAH-Tee.") I'm not that much of a fan of light sf/fantasy, but these were good.

Extollager said:

I read "Housing Problem" and "Nothing but Gingerbread Left" in The Best of Henry Kuttner. These are genuinely clever stories! (I wonder if the latter influenced Leiber's "Rump-Titty-Titty-Tum-TAH-Tee.") I'm not that much of a fan of light sf/fantasy, but these were good.

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I envy you enormously for reading that collection. I cant have it now.

Clever stories! is what i thought when i read his humorous SF. Good to see there are more stories like it. Frankly its much easier to make serious,dark SF.

The Dark World is very much an underrated book . I recommend it and his Elak of Atlantis stories .

If you want a good sample of Henry Kuttner's work try to get "The Best Of ........" by Ballantine Books.
It has "All Mimsy Were The Borogroves" & "The Proud Robot" along with other favorites.

BigBadBob141 said:

If you want a good sample of Henry Kuttner's work try to get "The Best Of ........" by Ballantine Books.
It has "All Mimsy Were The Borogroves" & "The Proud Robot" along with other favorites.

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The film The Last Mimzy was quite good.

Yeah, I liked it too.

The Dark World which is an underrated Classic and his Elak of Atlantis shorts stories both excellent stuff.

Also his Wife C L Moore is quite good too. Black Gods Kiss which has all of her wonderful Jirel of Jory Stories and The anthology Northwest of Earth which has all of her Northwest simeht adventures.

Here's the edition I read. With a cover like this, how could I not?