The Lord of the Rings - Second Age - Amazon Prime

[HareBrain]

I just cannot imagine Elven children bullying each other in the undying lands.

I haven't seen it, but some of the Noldor especially (but not only them) were haughty, hot-tempered and could be cruel, avaricious, deceitful etc. The impression I got from The Silmarillion was that a minority shared most human flaws, especially the ones that lent themselves to the epic.

 

[svalbard]

I haven't seen it, but some of the Noldor especially (but not only them) were haughty, hot-tempered and could be cruel, avaricious, deceitful etc. The impression I got from The Silmarillion was that a minority shared most human flaws, especially the ones that lent themselves to the epic.

That was my impression of the Elves from my long ago readings of the Silmarillion and other works. My understanding was there was a long standing feud between two of the leading houses.

 

[ctg]

My understanding was there was a long standing feud between two of the leading houses.

Human Houses or Eldar?

 

[svalbard]

Eldar.

 

[ctg]

Eldar.

Why am I not surprised? But that's the thing about the elves. They are act like pacifists, but then in the houses, they rival each other and there are clashes on whose more heroic or whatever. For some reason, there's a pecking order. But for the outside, it's never shown. Not willingly. The outsiders only the-official-business-face, which is most often expressionless. So, you kind of get a cold feeling about them, especially when they expect you to survive like they do. But it's not what they are, because in their heart is kindness, even if sometimes it appears as cruelty. It's almost as if they all have a mask with two faces.

 

[HareBrain]

My understanding was there was a long standing feud between two of the leading houses.

Feanor and his followers (about a third of the Noldor) killed many of the Teleri when stealing their ships to leave Valinor, but I don't know if that's what you're referring to as the two groups never met again, so there was no actual feuding.

Also, Feanor and his sons swore an oath to retrieve the Silmarils at any cost, even if they were held by another Elf. This later set them at odds with other Elves in Beleriand, but not with any one house in particular.

 

[Brian G Turner]

she is doing a good job portraying a character that I don't recognise

It does make sense that mature characters we already know of in LOTR may be different in their youth.

haughty, hot-tempered and could be cruel, avaricious, deceitful etc

that's the thing about the elves. They are act like pacifists

*cough* The Hobbit.

 

[Tirellan]

A few points on Ep3 and taking into account the above posts.

1. I think Hal is been set up as the tortured hero. The Campbell archetype. Or an tinfoil hat theory could be that he is one of the 'kings' corrupted by Sauron and the rings of power.

2. The Stranger is definitely Gamdalf. He has always had a connection to the Hobbits and this might be an origin story.

3. Agree with one of the posters. Arondir is my favourite elf at the moment.

4. Elendil looks suitably heroic.

5. Numenor looked spectacular.

Didn't Gandalf arrive by ship at the Grey Havens after the rings had been forged, and Cirdan gave him the ring he held?

 

[SilentRoamer]

It does make sense that mature characters we already know of in LOTR may be different in their youth.

What do you mean in her youth? At this point in the story she is over 5,000 years old. During LotR she is around 8,000 year old.

 

[Brian G Turner]

A lot can happen in 3,000 years.

 

[ctg]

*cough* The Hobbit.

Like I said, they expect you to do extraordinary things, and it appears as arrogance. In the Jackson's Hobbit, you can't but feel it as the King denies time and again to help. You look closely, especially the capture scene, and they appear extremely protective of their community, because they view lesser races as nuisance, and not worth of their time. Which they have plenty.

In the end they however sees their mistakes and instead of hiding they go their way to help people, as all of suddenly they seem worthy. To human and other races eyes it appears as arrogance. Maybe there is also part of that they were the first race to live on Middle-Earth and in the Undying Lands. That they see themselves as the owners of the land. And in some places as caretakers.

It's curious that the Wood Elves let the Mirkwood to get in such a state, even though it's their forest. Why? Why Tolkien let the evil and darkness to seep in every part of the Middle-Earth, and the Eldar stepping back and closing in their strongholds?

 

[BAYLOR]

What do you mean in her youth? At this point in the story she is over 5,000 years old. During LotR she is around 8,000 year old.

And she really looks good for a lady of 8000.

 

[ctg]

Spoiler

A very funny and supremely sarcastic review from aussie vblog critic on ep 3

 

[ctg]

A very good visual source for the Tolkien lore. What he's saying is that after the defeat of Morgorth they were given a task as a First Born to teach the men values. The men, especially in Numenor were then forbidden to enter the Undying Lands, to become immortal, and it made them bitter. Hence the Eldar were banned from the mythical island.

He also points out that Tolkien explained that if men were to enter the Undying lands to be blessed with longevity, it wouldn't be a blessing but a curse.

 

[svalbard]

Feanor and his followers (about a third of the Noldor) killed many of the Teleri when stealing their ships to leave Valinor, but I don't know if that's what you're referring to as the two groups never met again, so there was no actual feuding.

Also, Feanor and his sons swore an oath to retrieve the Silmarils at any cost, even if they were held by another Elf. This later set them at odds with other Elves in Beleriand, but not with any one house in particular.

Yes. That is what I remembered. As I said it is a long time since I read the material and it was all a bit hazy. However I always had the idea that elves were not this ideal race and had their faults.

 

[svalbard]

Didn't Gandalf arrive by ship at the Grey Havens after the rings had been forged, and Cirdan gave him the ring he held?

I think he did, however I do not think Amazon have the rights to use Cirdan. I could be wrong and open to correction.

 

[Brian G Turner]

In the end they however sees their mistakes and instead of hiding they go their way to help people

I've not seen the Jackson film version, but in the book the Mirkwood elves seem anything but.

 

[Tirellan]

I think he did, however I do not think Amazon have the rights to use Cirdan. I could be wrong and open to correction.

And this didn't happen until approx thousand years into the Third Age according to Appendix B of LotR. So they have the rights to use the Istari arriving in Middle Earth, but they are way off the canon timeline.

 

[Elckerlyc]

Is there any reason this show doesn't have it's own featured tv series thread?

Repeating this request.

 

[Dave]

Repeating this request.

Go ahead. Anyone can create new threads. I haven't enough to say, myself. We can split this thread up, but it has been mainly about the reaction to the series as a whole, and very little on the individual episodes.