October 2021 Reading Discussion

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Bick said:
It’s not remotely dull. It’s the finest SF book written.
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Yeah. Despite what I said above, this is a good book: an interesting and engaging page- turner at the very least, culturally significant from an sf and general popular fiction perspective.
 
I read Asimov's four robot stories starring Elijah Bayley recently. My thoughts on them:

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The Caves of Steel (novel, 1954) is set a few thousand years into the future, and introduces the readers to Elijah Bayley. The detective, like all humans on Earth lives in a completely enclosed, largely underground, New York, afraid to go outside. He is asked to investigate the death of a 'spacer' at the space-town outside the city, and receives help from the humaniform robot Daneel to solve the seemingly impossible case. The novel is a classic of the genre, conveying well the claustrophobia of a future in which humans restrict their experience of the world. Asimov's skill at mystery plotting, and ingenious use of the 'three laws' of robotics add to the readability and enjoyment.

The Naked Sun (novel, 1956) sees Bayley leave Earth (the first Earthman to do so for hundreds of years) to travel to the spacer world of Solaria to try and solve the riddle of another mysterious murder. The world of Solaria - in which very few inhabitants live in isolation, shunning direct contact with other humans, and tended by thousands of robots each - is a fascinating premise, and allows Asimov to weave another intriguing plot. If anything, this is even superior to The Caves of Steel, as Asimov explores human contact and motivation in a fresh way, extending his range from his earlier work.

Mirror Image (short story, 1972) is the only short piece of fiction starring Elijah and Daneel. Asimov had been pressured for years to write further robot stories involving these characters and ultimately published this in Analog, sixteen years after The Naked Sun. Daneel comes to Earth to ask for Bayley's help in solving a problem between two mathematician passengers on a spaceship, each of whom claim to have had the exact same mathematical discovery at the same time. It's a terrific short story, and the prodigious intellect of Asimov is readily apparent.

Robots of Dawn (novel, 1983) is the third and final novel in which Elijah Bayley stars. Asimov recalls that, when he finally provided a further Elijah/Daneel story in 1972 with Mirror Image, he received lots of letters, essentially saying "thanks, but we meant a novel!". It took a further nine years for him to publish what his fans were after, but it was worth the wait. The first thing one notices when picking up The Robots of Dawn, is that its more than twice the length of the earlier novels, and at times it does seem a touch padded and bloated. The length was in response to his publisher's request to meet more modern expectations. The second thing of note, is that Asimov has written a story where sex is front and centre to the plot, and accordingly is discussed on many occasions. Asimov was criticized at times regarding his earlier work for the paucity of strong female characters and lack of attention to adult themes such as sex. Clearly he thought, "I'll show 'em"! In this novel, Elijah travels to the planet Aurora, to try and solve the case of the 'death' of the 'humaniform' robot, Jander. He's again aided by Daneel, meets Gladia once more (the female lead character from The Naked Sun), and we are introduced to the interesting new robot character, Giskard. Asimov's attempts to explore sexual mores are laudable and partially successful, though addressing these sort of themes are not a strong suit of his. His strength lies in logical and immersive plots, and while their are some scenes that come across as padding, the final scenes are highly successful.

Interestingly, Asimov clearly had it in mind to link the robot stories with the Empire novels and Foundation books by the time he wrote The Robots of Dawn. He references the idea of 'psychohistory' in the book (invented by the robotocist Fastolfe) and sets up the development of a human Empire. There was of course a further novel that linked the series even more tightly: Robots and Empire (1985), set a few hundred years after Elijah Bayley's death. It's a decent novel, and further involves both Daneel and Giskard, and references Elijah Bayley many times, though he does not feature as a contemporary character of course.
 
AE35Unit said:
Good stuff @Bick, I don't think I've read or even heard of Mirror Image. I wonder if it was put into one of his numerous anthologies.
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Yep, it has been collected in:

The best of Isaac Asimov
The Complete Robot
Robot Visions
The Collected Stories, Volume 2

So, you may find you've got it somewhere already.
 
I'm taking a break from the Foundation books now.
This morning I'm starting one I haven't read since the 1970s... Harry's Game by Gerald Seymour
 
speaking of DUNE ... did anyone here read the antythesis of DUNE, SOLARIS?
 
Vince W said:
I think this has sparked a bug in me to start collecting Asimov 1st editions. My wallet may end up cursing you, Bick. :)
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Asimov first editions can be expensive as I’m sure you’re aware. Expect to pay a grand for each of the famous 1950s titles.
 
The Dying Earth (Jack Vance) is a funny old book. Not sure how much I’m enjoying it. I knew going in it was fantasy, and I prefer SF (especially, I think, from Vance), but was not necessarily expecting the short story/collection format.

Unfortunately, the stories themselves are not that successful. They each centre on a different character, preventing character development (they are all paper thin), and are too episodic to be really immersive. I was hoping the book would chronicle the dying Earth in some way, but not so far. Everyone in it is either a magician of some sort, or a demon, and there are no ‘normal’ people. The tales themselves are pulpy (written back when Vance was still using overt purple prose) and come across as unconvincing sword and sorcery. The use of the book by the inventors of D&D is very clear, which is interesting, but does make the stories now read like badly constructed D&D fiction. Perhaps the whole will be greater than the sum of its parts? I’m about halfway through so I’ll give it a bit longer and see.
 
Bick said:
The Dying Earth (Jack Vance) is a funny old book. Not sure how much I’m enjoying it. I knew going in it was fantasy, and I prefer SF (especially, I think, from Vance), but was not necessarily expecting the short story/collection format.

Unfortunately, the stories themselves are not that successful. They each centre on a different character, preventing character development (they are all paper thin), and are too episodic to be really immersive. I was hoping the book would chronicle the dying Earth in some way, but not so far. Everyone in it is either a magician of some sort, or a demon, and there are no ‘normal’ people. The tales themselves are pulpy (written back when Vance was still using overt purple prose) and come across as unconvincing sword and sorcery. The use of the book by the inventors of D&D is very clear, which is interesting, but does make the stories now read like badly constructed D&D fiction. Perhaps the whole will be greater than the sum of its parts? I’m about halfway through so I’ll give it a bit longer and see.
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I think the Dying Earth stories were almost the very first, perhaps the first, he ever wrote - written in his spare time on board ship while serving in the Merchant Marine during WWII. Their purpose may have been just to provide him with some pleasant escapism. This may explain something of your impressions in reading them. If I remember right, the title was not his choice.
 
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Bick said:
The Dying Earth (Jack Vance) is a funny old book. Not sure how much I’m enjoying it. I knew going in it was fantasy, and I prefer SF (especially, I think, from Vance), but was not necessarily expecting the short story/collection format.

Unfortunately, the stories themselves are not that successful. They each centre on a different character, preventing character development (they are all paper thin), and are too episodic to be really immersive. I was hoping the book would chronicle the dying Earth in some way, but not so far. Everyone in it is either a magician of some sort, or a demon, and there are no ‘normal’ people. The tales themselves are pulpy (written back when Vance was still using overt purple prose) and come across as unconvincing sword and sorcery. The use of the book by the inventors of D&D is very clear, which is interesting, but does make the stories now read like badly constructed D&D fiction. Perhaps the whole will be greater than the sum of its parts? I’m about halfway through so I’ll give it a bit longer and see.
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In addition to @Hugh’s comments;
These stories take a while to get going. The classic wry Vance humour really starts to become apparent with Cugel.

Do not expect any sort of chronology or associations with the modern world.
 
I’m now a few chapters into A Deepness In The Sky. Not too bad so far. It appears an easier read than A Fire Upon The Deep. I’m not sure why that is. Maybe it’s because it seems to be more of a standard SF novel or perhaps it’s simply that Vinge improved as a writer during the years in between these two books.
 
Further along in The Cocktail Waitress, I've been trying to figure out when it's supposed to take place, and discovered an anachronism. A reference to the legal use of thalidomide in the UK sets it somewhere between 1958 and 1962. That goes along with a reference to the Howdy Doody show, and some other programs, being broadcast in color in the USA. So far, so good. However, there's also reference to "hot pants," a term which was invented in 1970. (I suppose the term "short shorts" would be appropriate.) Even Homer nods.
 
I'm currently reading Fifty Words For Snow, by Nancy Campbell.
An absolutely fantastic read about snow in fifty languages, only just over 200 pages. This has sneaked into my top twenty nonfiction books and to keep for the future.
 
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