Cultural appropriation and writing from a NA POV

[HalaxyGigh]

A Native American/Amerindian character's POV, particularly when issues of racism and social realism come up. I'm wondering how people feel about white or non-NA authors doing this, how is it received in the media and amongst NA communities today? Does it immediately invite controversy? Does anyone have experience with this?
I ask because from what I know, aspects of NA representation in pop culture is still a sensitive issue in the US. I'm in the UK, working on a couple of pieces of historical fiction in the old/wild west, but with NA lead characters.

 

[The Judge]

Not sure if it helps, but the serial I did for Kraxon last year was a kind of fantasy pre-Columbian North America, and in the stories I used/mentioned specific things I'd picked up in research such as agricultural techniques and craftwork. I know we have at least two members here with roots in Indigenous American tribes: one I know enjoyed the first episode (I'm not sure if she's read further) and another was kind enough to comment favourably at the end of the year The Slave Girl and the Storyteller episode 12 - Akiowa Finds Herself

But -- and this is a big but -- the world in which my character moved was a fantasy one, not a depiction of real life. I was therefore under a lot less pressure to get every single thing absolutely correct, though nonetheless I took pains to treat every cultural item with respect, and though I mentioned religion, for instance, I gave a wide berth to actual beliefs and created something new so as not to give inadvertent offence by misunderstanding/misrepresentation.

Quite how I'd fare if the serial became known to large numbers of Indigenous Americans, though, who knows? Some might still have called me out simply for daring to mention bullboats and beadwork. (And, of course, they don't all speak with one voice. As long as there are no egregious errors, they are perhaps no more likely to agree on a contentious issue than a similar number of people in England!)

Personally, I'd be very, very careful about writing something which is in any way historical without wholly immersing myself in the culture I was writing about, and without having a number of people from the relevant Indigenous American tribe(s) to offer help and advice both before and after writing it, to ensure I didn't cause offence.

So yes, it's likely to be controversial, and definitely will be if you've not done your homework thoroughly.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'm wondering how people feel about white or non-NA authors doing this, how is it received in the media and amongst NA communities today?

Basically, the questions that are going to be asked are:

1. What makes you qualified to represent these people?
2. How much actual research have you done?

Neither of which means you can't write what you're planning, but if you were ever published, and your work was ever popular enough, these are the sorts of questions you'd probably be expected to answer well.

 

[Star-child]

This is both an old and unsolvable problem:

A Growing War Over 'hanta Yo' Pits Chief Lame Deer & Wojo Vs. Ruth Beebe Hill & David Wolper

A Growing War Over 'hanta Yo' Pits Chief Lame Deer & Wojo Vs. Ruth Beebe Hill & David Wolper

people.com

Perpetuating an American Stereotype | News | The Harvard Crimson

F IRST THERE WAS Custer Died For Your Sins. Then there was Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee, Now there

www.thecrimson.com

My suggestion would be to remove your Native American character(s) as much as possible from their culture, avoiding the possibility of having a cultural commentary in their perspectives and actions. If the character is in no way a caricature of a tribe or culture you'll have nothing more to answer for than having a diverse cast.

 

[-K2-]

A Native American/Amerindian character's POV, particularly when issues of racism and social realism come up . . . working on a couple of pieces of historical fiction in the old/wild west, but with NA lead characters.

I've shortened your post to touch on two points, primarily.

If you're speaking of 'the old West, 1700-early 1900s, you have a MASSIVE amount of information to plow through. My own 1870s novel required thousands of era maps, government documents, advertisements, newspapers, Tribal documentation, languages, cultures, etc-etc., and still, I had to cross check every piece because they were often written with bias and/or ignorance. As an example, in Sacramento, the most culturally advanced location in the West, in 1876 they were still offering a bounty for 'pieces' of Indigenous Americans...and they had formed strong and social/government supported anti-Chinese and anti-Colored leagues, and so on.

So essentially, Indigenous Americans were considered 'less than human,' but terrified the immigrants (everyone else) so much they believed they had to be exterminated...and that continues today. In contrast, Indigenous American peoples had extremely advanced cultures and societies. So, the savage Europeans were considered 'less than human', who terrified many indigenous peoples so much they believed they had to be exterminated... Funny how that works, huh?

The real problem is, can you relate and express, how it feels to encounter that depth of racial/cultural hatred in your own homeland?

Now it's one thing if you just want historically accurate racial slurs, there's a bunch. How each treated the other is also easy enough to sort out (once you learn that much of what Indigenous Americans are accused of, they adopted from how they were treated by European immigrants first, believing that's what the Europeans understood...if they even did those things). However, to try and convey how they might have felt, to some degree requires some personal experience or in-depth interviews (which will be, actually shallow).

As to how it will be received, no matter how accurate you are--in all regards--you'll encounter harsh criticism. From the Indigenous side of things, part of that is because even among IAs, there is a LOT of differing opinion. Past preferring being labeled by their tribe/nation/family, each person's experience, tolerance, and opinion is different as @The Judge points out. From everyone else it gets worse. I'll restrain my little rant, but there are a LOT of social justice warriors right now who have absolutely no connection to the people or causes they wish to defend--and they usually don't know what they're talking about--but they'll try and correct you, to that which they don't have a clue to.

So, since you've chosen an era and location (which sets in stone how accurate you need to be), the question is must your character be Indigenous American? I only ask due to the difficulty of that as @Star-child points out. He also points out another great point. To state, 'Bob looked like X due to indigenous roots,' but past that has no connection to the people, makes the task much easier.

If not and he/she must be raised in that culture, what dates, which people/tribe, are you sure of the location, terrain, environment, the culture, the language, and so on? There is a LOT you should try to get right since the information is out there.

But, it can be done. Just paint the people--ALL people, race regardless--fairly. Not too good, not too bad, just people as people are after learning their varied cultural perspectives.

In the end, however, it's your project. Best of luck, it's a fascinating subject and a complex but rewarding place and time to investigate.

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[Star-child]

He also points out another great point. To state, 'Bob looked like X due to indigenous roots,' but past that has no connection to the people, makes the task much easier.

That's overstating it. The character may have been born and raised Sioux, but the author doesn't need to dote on that. Characters, like people, are products of much more than their backgrounds and they can skin a deer or read Sanskrit or have pride without reference to where those characteristics specifically came from.

And often it is much more interesting to read if the underlying history and motivations aren't spelled out.

From a POV standpoint, people don't see their actions as being "because I am French". They think whatever they received from their culture is normal and that everyone else is acting queer because they aren't French. So even a close third perspective needn't contain culture tags. Just tell what they are doing and thinking at present and let that inform the reader what kind of person they are.

 

[CTRandall]

First, find someone with a Native American background--preferrably from the same region as your setting (Northern Plains tribes have very different cultures than SouthWest, Northern Pacific or Eastern tribes)--ask them to read it and really listen to their feedback.

Second, think about what role Native American culture plays in your story. Is it a simple action-adventure in which a hero and villain clash? Then details of culture don't play a big role. You still need to do research to acurately reflect grievaces, motivations and any aspects of culture you touch on but you're not pretending to write a political commentary.

On the other hand, if cultural identity is central to one or more characters, you've got your work cut out for you and sensitivity readers are a must.

 

[Boneman]

Basically, the questions that are going to be asked are:

1. What makes you qualified to represent these people?

I'm a writer...? I'm not representing them, I'm portraying them... Yes, do everything to get it close to the real thing, but since we're SciFi and Fantasy writers, do we not have carte blanche to change aspects that aren't on this planet, say?

I hope so, or I'm royally F****D. Name dropper alert here: I discussed this very aspect with Patrick Rothfuss some years ago, when he critiqued my novel which had Native Americans in it. He pointed me in the direction of some excellent books, and told me anecdotes of his own experience, particularly the portrayal of the 'Noble Savage' that has permeated down a century or so.

HalaxyGigh (great name, btw) Make it as realistic as possible, if you're portraying the real world... Make it as readable as you can if you're writing a fantasy world.

 

[The Big Peat]

A Native American/Amerindian character's POV, particularly when issues of racism and social realism come up. I'm wondering how people feel about white or non-NA authors doing this, how is it received in the media and amongst NA communities today? Does it immediately invite controversy? Does anyone have experience with this?
I ask because from what I know, aspects of NA representation in pop culture is still a sensitive issue in the US. I'm in the UK, working on a couple of pieces of historical fiction in the old/wild west, but with NA lead characters.

I have had no direct experience but I did follow a lot of the controversy over American Dirt and I feel like a big part of this depends on exactly what sort of story you're telling.

If you're telling a historical adventure story where some characters are NA, and you don't shy away from the ugly realities of the era but don't dwell on them too much because the adventure is calling, you probably won't attract too much controversy unless you manage to hit every bad stereotype going. I'm not saying there won't be any, there's a wide range of people out there, but most aren't hard obsessed with "nobody shall portray/represent us but us". At least, that's true of 99% of people from most walks of life.

If you're telling a historical story that aims to focus on and show the truth of what was really happening in terms of the racism, then you are inviting controversy, because that's a lot closer to the identity and mistakes will be all the more glaring.

In any case, do your research and in particular, be careful about a) what is one tribe and not another b) what is still a matter of religious faith. See some of the criticism of Rebecca Roanhorse's Trail of Lightning for an example of why B can matter.

 

[-K2-]

That's overstating it. The character may have been born and raised Sioux, but the author doesn't need to dote on that. Characters, like people, are products of much more than their backgrounds and they can skin a deer or read Sanskrit or have pride without reference to where those characteristics specifically came from.

And often it is much more interesting to read if the underlying history and motivations aren't spelled out.

From a POV standpoint, people don't see their actions as being "because I am French". They think whatever they received from their culture is normal and that everyone else is acting queer because they aren't French. So even a close third perspective needn't contain culture tags. Just tell what they are doing and thinking at present and let that inform the reader what kind of person they are.

Yeah, except, when you're speaking of an indigenous upbringing before the merge with other cultures it's not quite so simple. Let me correct that, when you're discussing any pair of cultures that have different value systems that holds true. As an example, Feudal Japan vs. European visitors. In the case of Indigenous Americans, even today they encounter extreme bias to one extreme or the other and even 'soft genocide' (what I call it) where the intent--supported by the government--is to ultimately have the race vanish into history... and yes, it's that extreme.

When you're speaking of the 'old West,' it becomes glaring, open, and obvious. So any interaction between cultures, even between tribes becomes a bit more complex.

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[Star-child]

Yes, do everything to get it close to the real thing, but since we're SciFi and Fantasy writers, do we not have carte blanche to change aspects that aren't on this planet, say?

As there are no other planets where people live, what makes your characters "Native American" in an important way?

If they are descendants of people from today, then they can be completely different, and probably should notably changed.

 

[-K2-]

I'm a writer...? I'm not representing them, I'm portraying them... Yes, do everything to get it close to the real thing, but since we're SciFi and Fantasy writers, do we not have carte blanche to change aspects that aren't on this planet, say?

As there are no other planets where people live, what makes your characters "Native American" in an important way?
If they are descendants of people from today, then they can be completely different, and probably should notably changed.

I'm in the UK, working on a couple of pieces of historical fiction in the old/wild west, but with NA lead characters.

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[Boneman]

yeah but, no but... I was replying to Brian....

 

[Star-child]

Yeah, except, when you're speaking of an indigenous upbringing before the merge with other cultures it's not quite so simple. Let me correct that, when you're discussing any pair of cultures that have different value systems that holds true. As an example, Feudal Japan vs. European visitors. In the case of Indigenous Americans, even today they encounter extreme bias to one extreme or the other and even 'soft genocide' (what I call it) where the intent--supported by the government--is to ultimately have the race vanish into history... and yes, it's that extreme.

When you're speaking of the 'old West,' it becomes glaring, open, and obvious. So any interaction between cultures, even between tribes becomes a bit more complex.

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I don't follow how that addresses my point that individual characters are not representatives of some sort of average behavior of their culture. Especially when you are talking about the illogical and misinformed behavior of outsiders rather than the NA character's own thoughts and behavior.

An individual Sioux character is not obligated to act Sioux, think Sioux or be treated like Sioux.

 

[-K2-]

An individual Sioux character is not obligated to act Sioux, think Sioux or be treated like Sioux.

Except, when all they know is Sioux... You and your values, are a reflection of how you were raised, no matter how much you embrace or reject them. It is also not a matter of a person ALONE in the wilderness (although again if so, what they know will form how they think, their values, and beliefs). Now place that person in an environment (old West) where everyone who is not Sioux (in your example), is openly and violently against them--because they are Sioux and a different color--and they have to respond to that even inwardly.

My character in my novel, until the end had zero affiliation to her indigenous culture, and beyond living on her own as often as possible, had lived most of her life (and therefor was raised) in European American culture. It still didn't matter. Any European Americans she encountered treated her as Indigenous Americans were treated. Every Indigenous person she encountered, treated her as European American... and all people treated her as even 'less-than' their opposing culture, because she was half-blood. That's just how it was, and is...

So if you're writing some historical story that's not some fantasy utopia that never existed, those are some of the things you have to deal with since that cultural and racial bias is constant and comes from all directions.

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[Star-child]

Except, when all they know is Sioux... You and your values, are a reflection of how you were raised, no matter how much you embrace or reject them. It is also not a matter of a person ALONE in the wilderness (although again if so, what they know will form how they think, their values, and beliefs). Now place that person in an environment (old West) where everyone who is not Sioux (in your example), is openly and violently against them--because they are Sioux and a different color--and they have to respond to that even inwardly.

My character in my novel, until the end had zero affiliation to her indigenous culture, and beyond living on her own as often as possible, had lived most of her life (and therefor was raised) in European American culture. It still didn't matter. Any European Americans she encountered treated her as Indigenous Americans were treated. Every Indigenous person she encountered, treated her as European American... and all people treated her as even 'less-than' their opposing culture, because she was half-blood. That's just how it was, and is...

So if you're writing some historical story that's not some fantasy utopia that never existed, those are some of the things you have to deal with since that cultural and racial bias is constant and comes from all directions.

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There is nothing about being Sioux that dictates how white people are going to treat them vs any other tribe's member. Nor is there any research necessary about the Sioux to illustrate how the white person will act.

And specific to my point, how any one particular Sioux reacts to racism is going to be up to that particular Sioux individual, not dictated purely by how they are raised.

Which is kind of the main problem with this topic in general - writers want to treat their NA characters as exemplars of their tribal culture, instead of individuals shaped by their own intellects and specific experience. The particular Sioux character is free to react well outside the "norm" for their cultural background because they aren't a robot. AND, the author is free to make the character's reason for reacting however opaque to the reader.



Writers keep getting themselves in trouble because they treat NA character exposition as cultural ethnography. It's a bad idea when the story doesn't require that sort of deep analysis for the character to be fully realized as a person. In fact, the NA character will be more of a person if they aren't shown to be a slave to cultural programming.



In terms of creating a fantasy world with NAs, the best course would be to manufacture an entirely fictional tribe and give them whatever cultural background is required rather than modifying the actual beliefs of a real tribe. This is similar to all the fake countries found in Marvel comics.

 

[Brian G Turner]

but since we're SciFi and Fantasy writers, do we not have carte blanche to change aspects that aren't on this planet, say?

I think there are still a few left on this planet.

individual characters are not representatives of some sort of average behavior of their culture

It's not about behaviours, though, as much as mindsets, attitudes, and expectations.

Writing for SF/F is one thing, but the original poster did say they were writing historical fiction, and IMO that's an area that is especially reliant on research.

 

[sknox]

>working on a couple of pieces of historical fiction in the old/wild west, but with NA lead characters.
Surely every comment is right and every comment is wrong so long as the story is only theoretical. First, write it. Polish it until it's ready to show. Then follow the advice given here regarding beta readers and how best to handle their input. That would include getting comments from qualified people. Just because a person is a Native American doesn't immediately mean they're going to give good comments. And not all Native Americans are going to have the same reactions.

But, again, until the thing is written, we're mostly just shooting the breeze, which OK because the breeze can't shoot back.

 

[Boneman]

I think there are still a few left on this planet.

Ah... I meant NA typed on another planet. Or on my case a parallel world....

 

[-K2-]

There is nothing about being Sioux that dictates how white people are going to treat them vs any other tribe's member. Nor is there any research necessary about the Sioux to illustrate how the white person will act.

And specific to my point, how any one particular Sioux reacts to racism is going to be up to that particular Sioux individual, not dictated purely by how they are raised.

Yeah, sorry, that's just wrong. Especially in the era asked about, though it even holds true today dependent upon where it happens (prejudice and violence near reservations can be open and blatant). More so, how a Sioux member is treated by another nation/tribe--in the era or even today to a much lesser degree--will depend on which tribe they encounter.



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