8.09: The Walking Dead - Honour

[Steve Harrison]

That had to be the longest and most boring death scene in TV history. And I fast-forwarded through most of the episode!

 

[ctg]

And I fast-forwarded through most of the episode!

What did you watch then?

 

[Judderman]

Would you be able to spot him lurking in the shadows with that colouring?

.....

The way TWD is going forward is floating in the air as AMC knows that Fear's method work better, and we are seeing that same pattern in these break-in-the-pattern episodes Kirkman and Gimble has casting around. There are seven episodes left, so if they want to go full bore ahead, I think we are going to see pacing similar to what we saw in the Fear. And that leaves nobody safe.

The only person we know for sure to survive this season is Morgan. So can we count Henry will survive this war till the end and not commit any more heroic assassinations? Also in this world is better for the children to learn how to kill sooner than later? Will it twist their psyche?

Yeah he is camouflaged well. I would think with 3 people at different angles one would see him walking up really. But I can live with it.

Regarding changes to be more like FTWD I guess that could happen next season with any luck. Hard to see them having changed the style half way through a season.

Interesting that you say Morgan survives for sure. I thought most likely he dies, or perhaps he wanders off again. As he will presumably appear in Fear in the earlier stage before he met up with Rick again. Some of that time was explained with him learning martial arts but perhaps there is months left? If it is after this Walking Dead s8 time then Fear the Walking Dead must have a time jump soon. So far almost 2 years vs just a couple of months on FTWD.

 

[Judderman]

I have a feeling Eugene could still help Ricknation eventually. My wife mentioned perhaps one of Negan's "wives" could also do something helpful for our heroes.

 

[Dave]

Eugene was seen in the "dream" sequences - which is why I am annoyed that they have turned out to be a dream. Last season, they showed sequences that actually happened at the end of the season, and there was no reason to believe that when they showed sequences at the start of this season that they would be only a "dream." This is Bobby Ewing/Dallas territory.

I believe ctg is saying Morgan survives because he is a major character in something that happens next in the graphic novels. I would just say that they have already shown a willingness to diverge heavily from those stories and anything is possible.

 

[ctg]

Some of that time was explained with him learning martial arts but perhaps there is months left? If it is after this Walking Dead s8 time then Fear the Walking Dead must have a time jump soon. So far almost 2 years vs just a couple of months on FTWD.

Last year that two years was 9+ months. Even if Morgan spent few months at the border, he would have had to find his way over there, mix with the Fear gang and then ditch them for good so that he can track Ricknation moving out from the Prison to take Road to Alexandria.

If he leaves at the end of this season, because he's had had enough of Ricknation, then that time shift would make more sense than trying to fit him in the past.

I believe ctg is saying Morgan survives because he is a major character in something that happens next in the graphic novels. I would just say that they have already shown a willingness to diverge heavily from those stories and anything is possible.

I don't know Dave because I haven't really read anything TWD after the All Out War saga ends. My latest number is #157. All Out War ends at #126

 

[ctg]

My wife mentioned perhaps one of Negan's "wives" could also do something helpful for our heroes.

Well, yeah, there's Dwight's wife in Negan's harem. The biggest advance Dwight has is that he has the latest intelligence on major Saviour assets for being in the compound just before Rick's assault. But will they understand that he has all that data in his head, and all they need to do is to ask the questions. Too bad they don't have any senior intelligence officers among them. Rick, for being a sheriff is doing a sh*t job on the investigations.

 

[Steve Harrison]

What did you watch then?

More of the same. I've been close to ditching the series for the last season and a half, but I'm still clinging on by my fingernails for old time's sake hoping it will improve. I'm starting to identify with the zombies.

 

[ctg]

More of the same. I've been close to ditching the series for the last season and a half, but I'm still clinging on by my fingernails for old time's sake hoping it will improve. I'm starting to identify with the zombies.

If it takes Fear route then things are going to be more interesting.

 

[Judderman]

This article agrees with you on the FTWD time jump theory being the most likely. Though there are other options.

Fear the Walking Dead season 4: How will Morgan fit in?

 

[ctg]

The Walking Dead creator and executive producer Robert Kirkman says he's "not at all" bothered with Carl Grimes' live-action counterpart being dead.

"It's something that I've gotten used to, it happens from time to time on the show," Kirkman said on live after show Talking Dead.

"Really if anything, it just makes me more excited. I think that any time that path is not set, any time you can't look at a comic book series and go, 'oh, I know exactly what's going to happen,' it makes things a little bit more exciting," Kirkman added.

"And dealing with those unknowns, when we're in the writers room, when we're working on season 9, all those changes that kind of snowball out from that, it just makes for a better show."

Carl is still alive in Kirkman's ongoing monthly comic book series where the one-eyed teen plays a pivotal role as the future successor of Alexandria leader Rick Grimes.

The Walking Dead television series killed Carl in last Sunday's mid-season premiere, "Honor," marking arguably the biggest deviation yet from Kirkman's black-and-white comic book.

"From the very beginning, Robert said, 'Look, these are two different types of media,'" executive producer Gale Anne Hurd said during our May 2017 visit to The Walking Dead set.

"Because we have characters that were never in The Walking Dead comic, like Daryl Dixon, that automatically changes that dynamic. He basically said, 'If this was a panel-by-panel adaptation, it would be a different thing.'"

Despite some of The Walking Dead's biggest change ups from page to screen, Hurd said changes aren't made for the sake of change.

"Is there a bit of, 'Yeah, we don't want people to know exactly what's going to happen?' Sure," Hurd explained. "It makes for better drama. But there's not a conscious intention to say, 'Okay, they did it this way in the comic, how can we specifically do this differently?'"

Chandler Riggs' Carl Grimes is just the latest character to suffer a fate that differs from their comic book counterpart, and his death is but one of several major changes shambling towards The Walking Dead.

Jeffrey Dean Morgan, who plays bat-wielding villain Negan, said he will "forever be disappointed" over the loss of Carl.

'The Walking Dead' Creator On Whether Or Not He's Upset Over Carl Being Dead

 

[Culhwch]

I'm a couple of weeks behind but I just caught up on the mid-season premiere.

Underwhelming.

I said this at the end of the first half of the season, but Carl's death would have had a lot more impact if he'd been bit doing something worthwhile. I don't know why they didn't have him get bitten saving Sadiq - particularly given the revelation he is a doctor, which I feel is a bit of a 'See?' moment for Rick.

Morgan might have gone off the deep end, but I must say I lean more towards his philosophy than not. Letting these assholes live to fight another day is a dumb idea. I was also annoyed that Negan turned up in Carl's vision/dream/whatever. Yeah, sure, let's give the murdering, torturing, raping sociopath a second chance. Tops.

 

[Judderman]

I said this at the end of the first half of the season, but Carl's death would have had a lot more impact if he'd been bit doing something worthwhile. I don't know why they didn't have him get bitten saving Sadiq - particularly given the revelation he is a doctor, which I feel is a bit of a 'See?' moment for Rick.

He was bitten when bringing Sadiq back. But maybe the timing was a bit off in how they showed it. Didn’t really seem meaningful. But I think it will lead to Rick forgiving Negan.

 

[Culhwch]

He was bitten when bringing Sadiq back. But maybe the timing was a bit off in how they showed it. Didn’t really seem meaningful. But I think it will lead to Rick forgiving Negan.

Not just in bringing him back. Sadiq had some weird thing about killing walkers to honour his parents (he mentioned it again this episode), so he and Carl attacked a group that they could have easily just avoided. Carl also had a gun and didn't use it until after he was bit. So he died of a terminal case of stupidity. Or stupid writing, at least.

I can't see how Rick could possibly forgive Negan at this point, let alone live alongside him if that's the direction this is heading. The show has damn sure made it clear that Negan wouldn't submit to living as just another schlub in Alexandria either, and the writers definitely don't have the skill to turn that around at this stage.

 

[Phyrebrat]

I’m surprised you bunch of cynics. I thought this episode was heartbreaking, perfectly paced and for once we got to see Chandler Riggs as a great acting talent.

pH

 

[ctg]

I thought this episode was heartbreaking, perfectly paced and for once we got to see Chandler Riggs as a great acting talent.

He is. That is absolutely true. We are mostly upset that he had to go. I was look forward to his story line getting bigger as it's obvious that Rick is becoming old for all of this mayhem.