Why is this wrong?

No problem. Strange really, because I had to think very hard to explain why it didn't seem quite right, and I'm still not sure that my explanation is 100% correct.

Oh, and the new suggestion reads fine to me.
 
I think you're probably grasping to it because there is one workable interpretation, but I don't think it's the one you want:

As I pulled on my jeans I imagined him stood in the hallway, checking his watch and stamping his foot.

This only works if some other force has put him there in the hallway. In other words, mother stood him there, so he's been stood there, so she can imagine him stood there.

What you want is the participial phrase "standing in the hallway." In this case, standing would not be an action verb, but a participle and the participial phrase "standing in the hallway" would act as an adjective that describes the direct object, "him."

You can test for this by seeing if the phrase is parenthetical, which it will most likely be if it is a participial phrase. To check you can put it in parenthesis, or more commonly, set it off in commas. Or you can delete it all together.

So you can write it like this: As I pulled on my jeans I imagined him, standing in the hallway, checking his watch and stamping his foot.

You have another issue here in that if you change it then all three of these phrases become participial phrases, all describing the DO, him. The thing about this is that they all must be occurring simultaneously, which can get weird. He has to be standing, checking the watch, and stamping all at the same time.

The other option given was:

As I pulled on my jeans I imagined he stood in the hallway, checking his watch and stamping his foot.

Here, you've dropped the conjunction from your subordinate clause. It should, technically, read: As I pulled on my jeans I imagined that he stood in the hallway, checking his watch and stamping his foot.

But dropping the that here is perfectly acceptable. The two participial phrases that remain still have a "pat your head while rubbing your tummy" problem for me, but this is clearer.

To get rid of the pat and rub issue, I'd write it as:

As I pulled on my jeans, I heard him in the hallway, stamping his foot. He'd probably be checking his watch as well. (Or some such.)

EDIT:

Or maybe:

As I pulled on my jeans I heard him stamping in the hallway. He'd be checking his watch as well.
 
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Thank you, for your explanation though. I don't mind being wrong but I really hate not having a good reason as to why. It is like with the critiques - I can even take downright nasty, in good part, but when something leaves me scratching my head I struggle.
 
I think in american english you'd get away with it

Oh, no, no, no. Definitely a common usage in parts of the UK thing, not American at all.

I see "stood" (and "sat") used in that way in manuscripts from clients in the UK all the time, from people whose grammar is otherwise very good. It drives me insane, but I'm not a copy editor -- and am wary of Americanizing their manuscripts anyway -- so I leave it alone.

Still, it has caused me a great deal of tooth enamel.
 
Oh, no, no, no. Definitely a common usage in parts of the UK thing, not American at all.

I see "stood" (and "sat") used in that way in manuscripts from clients in the UK, all the time, from people whose grammar is otherwise very good. It drives me insane, but I'm not a copy editor, so I leave it alone.

It was a posse of Americans that lynched me over it in a chatroom that I write in.

I posted it in a couple of other places and there was a distinct split. North-East Scots/North-West England tended to have trouble seeing any problem and didn't like the alternative versions. Which as they are my two vernaculars explains why it plain sounds wrong the other ways.

The other way maybe more correct but it is going to sound wrong every time I read it. Changing the whole sentence is sometimes a better option.
 
I was just going to suggest:
As I pulled on my jeans, I imagined him on the other side of the door, checking his watch and tapping his foot.

My issue was not that it was wrong but that I didn't understand it ;) I also decided stamping was a bit more childish than tapping.

This one works! Whew.
 
Oh, no, no, no. Definitely a common usage in parts of the UK thing, not American at all.

I see "stood" (and "sat") used in that way in manuscripts from clients in the UK all the time, from people whose grammar is otherwise very good. It drives me insane, but I'm not a copy editor -- and am wary of Americanizing their manuscripts anyway -- so I leave it alone.

Still, it has caused me a great deal of tooth enamel.

It could be similar to the Michiganders, Wisconsinites and Minnesotans who insist on borrowing you this or that instead of lending it to you...
 
I think the problem is the "stood". Stood is a verb and every verb needs a subject to produce a meaningful sentence. And "him" is not a subject so if you say "I imagined him stood in the hallway" , the verb has no subject and just stands there awkwardly. But when saying "I imagined him standing in the hallway" , the word "saying" is a gerund here so it no longer requires a subject.

Likewise, when you say "I imagined he stood in the hallway" you provide a subject to the verb "stood" by changing "him" to "he", therefore solving the issue.

Another possible option is to remove "stood" altogether. "I imagined him in the hallway" this narrows down the narrative but solves the problem.

And I'm sorry if I confused you even more, I'm still not that good with the damn English language.
 
Oh, no, no, no. Definitely a common usage in parts of the UK thing, not American at all.

I see "stood" (and "sat") used in that way in manuscripts from clients in the UK all the time, from people whose grammar is otherwise very good. It drives me insane, but I'm not a copy editor -- and am wary of Americanizing their manuscripts anyway -- so I leave it alone.

Still, it has caused me a great deal of tooth enamel.

Yes, me too! I see this around here, mostly the "sat" thing, and it makes me crazy, but I know it's a regional thing. "He was sat" or "He was stood" sound to me like someone put him there, and probably because he was naughty . :D
 
Glisterspeck said:
It could be similar to the Michiganders, Wisconsinites and Minnesotans who insist on borrowing you this or that instead of lending it to you...

Ouch. That's like the people who itch at something when the rest of us would scratch it.
 
It's pretty common, I think, all over the east of Scotland -- "He was sat on the bench"/ "He was stood in the hallway." It makes me twitch (I don't think Teresa found examples of that particular grammatical oddity in my ms, but I did learn from her that to "switch sides" on the TV is UK usage). Also, I don't know the difference between "bring" and "take". Hey ho.
 
Oh, no, no, no. Definitely a common usage in parts of the UK thing, not American at all.

I see "stood" (and "sat") used in that way in manuscripts from clients in the UK all the time, from people whose grammar is otherwise very good. It drives me insane, but I'm not a copy editor -- and am wary of Americanizing their manuscripts anyway -- so I leave it alone.

Still, it has caused me a great deal of tooth enamel.

I stand corrected. :)

It's bizarre, my lovely Scottish chums, that it jars with me. We must have left that one on the ferry. The sat one is one of mine, though, as is trailed used in many bizarre ways, apparently. :D
 
Also, I don't know the difference between "bring" and "take". Hey ho.

That one is easy. "Bring" indicates movement toward something (usually the speaker, or someplace the speaker intends to be.) "Will you bring that thing over there to me?" "Will you be bringing your husband with you to the wedding?"

"Take" suggests that something has been removed, or moved away (usually from the speaker). "You took my heart and smashed it in tiny pieces." "Take this away; I don't want it anymore."
 
But when saying "I imagined him standing in the hallway" , the word "saying" is a gerund here so it no longer requires a subject.

Not to be pedantic, but because I find the posts on this site to be of great value to myself as a struggling writer, I want to avoid us spreading a too common misunderstanding.

In your comment, you say that "saying" is a gerund. I'm guessing that you mean that the word "standing" is a gerund as saying is not in the OP's prose.

Gerunds and Participles

Standing, in this case, is not a gerund but a participle. These two are, unfortunately, commonly confused.

A gerund is a verbal that functions as a noun, becoming either the subject or an object in a sentence. An example may be:

Walking is good for you. (Walking is the gerund, acting as a subject.)
I enjoy walking. (Walking is the gerund, acting as the object of enjoy.)

A participle is a verbal that functions as an adjective or adverb.

I spent my day in the woods, walking. (Walking is a participle, functioning as an adverb describing how I spent my day.)

Flip that to: I spent my day walking in the woods, and it becomes a participial phrase, also acting as an adverb. (I think. These may be more adjective than adverb -- important thing is, they're not acting as a subject or object like a gerund would. ;))

Stood as a Past Participle

This is the bit that I found interesting in the original: it was always grammatically correct if we understood the verbal "stood" to mean that the father had been set in the hallway by some other force. This is because stood is the past participle form of stand. I just don't think that's what was intended.

The Problem with Present Participles (and As as a Conjunction to Boot)

The thing with present participles is that they are all descriptors, not actions. They are describing the subject or the verb; they are not functioning themselves as verbs, but take on the role of adjectives and adverbs. And the sage advice against the overuse of adjectives and adverbs should still stand, even if it is a participle working as such.

Also, there is no action--remember, they are descriptors now--so if you use a list of of them, each description in the list is describing something in one point in time. Unfortunately, though not the case here, we often list off a bunch of actions that need to happen in series using participial phrases. If these actions aren't simultaneous, they should probably be rewritten as a sequence of actual actions with proper verbs.

The same is true with the conjunction form of as. Whatever follows has to be simultaneous. You can use while as a substitution/addition to help with this. Anytime you use as as a conjunction, switch it to while and read it to see if the action in both clauses still makes sense. In the same way, add while to your list of participial phrases:

While I put on my jeans, I imagined him, standing in the hallway, while checking his watch, while tapping his foot.

Don't keep the whiles in there, but notice before you delete them how you can immediately tell if the amount of action that you are describing happening simultaneously is reasonable or ridiculous.

For me, I went through a no -ing endings allowed phase. (Same time as my no -ly endings phase. These were both during my Ayn Rand phase. I'm not sure of which phase I'm the most ashamed.) During that phase, I'd go through and rewrite all my gerund and present participle structures. I still do a search of every chapter for both, but more so to check for the simultaneous action issue. And to zap adverbs.

Sorry to hijack the thread AnyaKimlin. :eek: I just didn't want folks to confuse gerunds and participles, then ended up getting on a roll.
 
Thread has done what I needed it to do lol ;) Hijack away. But stand by for more as I scratch my head through this rewrite.
 
Not to be pedantic, but because I find the posts on this site to be of great value to myself as a struggling writer, I want to avoid us spreading a too common misunderstanding.

In your comment, you say that "saying" is a gerund. I'm guessing that you mean that the word "standing" is a gerund as saying is not in the OP's prose.

Gerunds and Participles

Standing, in this case, is not a gerund but a participle. These two are, unfortunately, commonly confused.

A gerund is a verbal that functions as a noun, becoming either the subject or an object in a sentence. An example may be:

Walking is good for you. (Walking is the gerund, acting as a subject.)
I enjoy walking. (Walking is the gerund, acting as the object of enjoy.)

A participle is a verbal that functions as an adjective or adverb.

I spent my day in the woods, walking. (Walking is a participle, functioning as an adverb describing how I spent my day.)

Flip that to: I spent my day walking in the woods, and it becomes a participial phrase, also acting as an adverb. (I think. These may be more adjective than adverb -- important thing is, they're not acting as a subject or object like a gerund would. ;))

I didn't really know that. Gerunds and participles are not different things in Turkish so I assumed it was the same in English. Oh the things I learn. I love this forum.
 

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