31.05: Flesh and Stone

[PTeppic]

Creating thread.

 

[HareBrain]

Posting in thread.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Right *Cracks knuckles* (ugh).

Firstly...no, wait, noughtly (or minus one, perhaps) I am always so excited before the episode starts. It's a great feeling!

So now firstly. A few too many easy things tonight. The teleportation of Amy (I think I actually said out loud "Aw, come on!") and yay for good old gravity. Also, the beginning felt a little choppy, quick explanation and onto the next thing, didn't really settle until they were trapped in the tube with the angels.

Liking the countdown thing with Amy. Trying to decide if the whole closing of Amy's eyes thing was another too easy bit, or just good simplicity.

Ah, River Song, what an enigma.

The Father. Aw, what an ending. Was a little sad. There's always someone the Doctor gets to talk to for a little while before they're able to die. "You saw me at my best". Good line.

Ah, there's something I was going to say. The wall, behind which the indoor forest lay. Was it just me, but when the Doctor hit it, anyone else see it bend a little?

Amy at the end. No! Tut! Although at least it wasn't fawning like Martha. And I'm going to put it down to shock and near death reaction.

LOVING THE DOCTOR. He's angry and shouty and alien and doesn't seem to be able to internal monologue at all, always thinking out loud (kinda like this post, I'm starting to see). On warp speed, but I like when he went back to Amy when she had her eyes closed to say one more thing.

Angels into big timey-wimey crack...so that's the last of them, RIGHT MOFFAT? (I bet one of them clung to a tree or something...)



"I got him to say comfy chair." Aahahaha.

 

[PTeppic]

Doctor: "I'm 907 years old. Do you know what that means?"
Amy: "It's been a while?"

Had me laughing out loud. Very RTD...

Anyway, not sure what I thought of the episode. Will think about it over breakfast for the re-watch. There was something definitely wrong with the Angels... I hate to say it but SM has broken them. They were perfect: quantum locked nicely-killing machines, simple and scary. Now they're stumbling round in large groups, without being permanently locked in each other's gaze.

On the plus side, we're now finding out something about this crack and what it's doing. I note that the date shown on the timer is the real-life date of showing for episode 13.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Quite liked it. Not as good as the first part.

Comfy chair moment was quite good.

 

[Lenny]

I saw it bend.

I also agree that Moffat has broken the Angels (though after their demise, I can't see them returning, not like the Daleks or Cyberman, so it's kind of alright). I have to say that I did find it somwhat scary watching them move. To say they're so fast, they can be very precise in their movements.

Couple of points from\about River: first off, what is this Stormcage? Well yes, a prison, but why so sinister? And the guy she killed, the very good man, I'm trying to not think it's the Doctor - she said it's something that has to be lived, so it happens in the Doctor's future and he's there to see it... I'm going to be the first to throw my hat into the ring and say that Captain Jack went off and did some interesting things after the last Torchwood series, one of which was to become a "very good man". River kills him in a way that leaves him dead for longer than usual, and she doesn't stick around to see him come back to life.

Secondly, her comment "I'm trapped in time; I'm a complicated space-time event". Things can be taken from that.

She told the Doctor he'd see her again very soon (this time in her past timeline... this timey-wimey stuff is getting a bit complicated!) which I'm going to take as the finale, so we can expect to see this fairytale "Pandorica" and more River in the finale. To Amy, however, she simple said, "See you, Amy". No "soon", or "again". Maybe Amy is off doing something else for the finale (honeymoon?)?

Smith is still growing into his role as the Doctor. Some of his dialogue is brilliant ("We have comfy chairs" as mentioned above), but what I'm starting to like is that he's different to Tennant in his emotions. Now Tennant was a good Doctor, but we never saw him turn round and scream at someone.

The new Sonic Screwdriver interests me - I don't think the old one had a panel on it telling the Doctor the readings (didn't he hold the old one up to his ear?).

Amy pouncing... interesting. I definitely agree that it's better than Martha's fawning, and everything from Rose, but I still don't see why a solid SF needs romance. Never have, never will.

I think that's it from me. Next week looks interesting, I'm still in love with the dramatic theme (chorus going "Oh oh oh, oh oh ohoh", trumpets, general epic orchestraness), and the opening theme seemed slightly different today - a mix between the old one and the new one.

Thoroughly enjoyed the two-parter (although it was a bit of a sham the way the Angels were defeated), and I hope next week's episode carries on with this high standard of writing, rather than that of previous episodes.

EDIT: Oh yes, the forest behind the wall. Not just a forest, but cyborg trees! Wonderful! I can't remember having much to say about some of the SF we saw in RTD episodes (though I did like the idea of the skystation UNIT had in the Master episodes), but that's two brilliant things from Moffat (building a spaceship for a country, and the Byzantine in general) that I really enjoy.

EDIT2: Mind like a sieve! Gah!

"There's a plan?"
"I don't know yet, I've not stopped talking."

"How?"
"I'll do a Thing."
"What Thing?"
"I don't know, it's a Thing in progress. Respect the Thing."

 

[ktabic]

I thought it was superb.
The angels where still scary, River Song less all-knowing than the episode, Amy put in a nice strong perfomance and the Doctor felt more like an alien than ever. Love the way the angels sowed the seeds of their own destruction.

The on going crack in the wall has been given it's big reveal. So those people who have been thinking Moffet was doing a bad and obvious version of RTDs series-wide hidden messages are going to have to have a rethink now.

Didn't think that Amy snogging the Doctor was that out of character, she has fantasizing about him for 12 years, and I don't think a kissogram is really a shy, retiring type.

River Song still has loads of intriguing secrets, I'm now quite looking forward to seeing her again. Does anyone else think that, given what she has said this episode, [POTENTIAL SPOILER]she ends up killing the Doctor?

Spoiler

The cyborg forest was neat, and the disappearing soldiers very well done.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Re: Lenny's Post.

I think it was trying to hint that it was the Doctor, the "very good man...the best...", to which she referred. I think they were giving very strong hints to such, considering he's the best man in her life (well, so we keep being told). Which makes me think that it won't be. Or that it'll probably some "I killed him...only I didn't quite" kind of thing, as you say Lenny. Like Rose and her whole "I died today". My a...rm, you did.

See, the fact that she said "See you, Amy" rather than "Bye, farewell, etc", the latter being more formal and final made it seem more likely that she would, indeed, be seeing her again.The tone of her voice suggested it, too.

The way Amy pounced was certainly in character and much better than the possible relationships before. But I'm fed up of there always having to be one there. Loved the Doctor's reaction to it, though. As I was just saying to my housemate, I think with this Doctor, his mind is on much bigger, universe-wide things. Tennant's Doctor was very human-friendly, even became human a couple of times, but Matt seems much more alien and quirky and brain-the-size-of-a-planet (to use a phrase) and I Love It.

 

[Perpetual Man]

I really enjoyed it too, I'm not going to comment too much - it's very hard to concentrate when you have a 18 month old shouting "Doctor!" at the top of his lungs.

I did wonder whether there was any chance that Amy might actually be River Song? A very gig twist... or is this just the alcohol talking Hoops?

 

[ktabic]

Couple of points from\about River: first off, what is this Stormcage? Well yes, a prison, but why so sinister?

Way back in the Virgin books Dr Who there was a prison that was placed in the corona of a star. I'm kinda thinking a similar thing, but on a smaller scale, it's in an electrical storm so if you escape you get fried.

I think it was trying to hint that it was the Doctor, the "very good man...the best...", to which she referred.

Gotta agree with you there.

See, the fact that she said "See you, Amy" rather than "Bye, farewell, etc", the latter being more formal and final made it seem more likely that she would, indeed, be seeing her again.The tone of her voice suggested it, too.

I still kinda like the idea of Amy being River Song. But doubt it will happen.

The way Amy pounced was certainly in character and much better than the possible relationships before. But I'm fed up of there always having to be one there.

I think that is one of the reasons I liked Donna Noble. She wasn't pining for the Doctor.

Matt seems much more alien and quirky and brain-the-size-of-a-planet (to use a phrase) and I Love It.

Hehe, yeah. It's nice having an alien that is really alien.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Pep: Hah, you've had your banana drink, then?

I posed that very idea in the last thread. Haven't given it much thought since, but if it's totally off, I can now foist the idea off onto you!

Ah, and now Ktabic's joined the crazy crew, too. Excellent!

And yes, I loved Donna and the Doctor travelling together. No relationship stuff getting in the way, just hilarious stuff, and a real friendship building up.

 

[chopper]

a few notes:

"Time can be rewritten!" - nearly lost amongst the action, but SM is setting out his stall, i think. mix that up with the crack in time causing people to have never existed and Amy's lack of daleky memory (and there was a comment about the monster Cyber-mecha from the Next Doctor special having never been mentioned...) and we could be looking at a crack in time that will swallow the daleks and the cybermen, causing both to vanish completely from the timestream....

i like amy pond (may be too much information, but that last 5 minutes reminded me of the first time i met Mrs C.... )

the angels were sufficiently scary to paper over the gaps in the story (but i noticed the wobbly scenery too). made me think of Stones of Blood again.

 

[ctg]

Some of you people are so hard to please. The new Doctor is still growing and if look at him you should notice that it hasn't been that long since he regenerated. So, everything he does is still bit new. Although some of the things still remain same. Like for example he's so scared of commitment, but yet, he always have female companions, and what Amy did... or tried ... was quite bold move.

What I really liked about the weeping angles is that they're like us, and certainly not limited to one way of killing their opponents. Therefore, I thought that they were multifaceted, and that really shows how much better Moffat is on writing this series then RTD. And if you really look into his writing then you notice how much better he is on tying things together, when with RTD you only got a hint here and there.

 

[ctg]

"Time can be rewritten!" - nearly lost amongst the action, but SM is setting out his stall, i think. mix that up with the crack in time causing people to have never existed and Amy's lack of daleky memory (and there was a comment about the monster Cyber-mecha from the Next Doctor special having never been mentioned...) and we could be looking at a crack in time that will swallow the daleks and the cybermen, causing both to vanish completely from the timestream....

Things doesn't vanish from a time-line. What Amy doesn't remember is a clear indication that she never experienced those events, therefore, if you apply Occam's Razor, the most logical and simplistic solution to the dilemma is the alternative time-line. And if you look at the beginning of this series, you see Tardis hurling through the space ... and time ... and possibly breaking through the boundaries, therefore, creating a 'drift' or a 'crack' in the space-time continuum.

Does that make any sense?

 

[chopper]

yep, it certainly does. i'm just cutting & pasting from what i've seen so far, so i stand to be proved utterly wrong by the last episode....

 

[Talysia]

I enjoyed this episode, although not as much as the first. There were some great moments, too; comfy chairs, for a start, Amy's countdown, and I loved the cyborg forest. Some really nice touches.

Next week's episode looks very interesting.

 

[Lenny]

...and we could be looking at a crack in time that will swallow the daleks and the cybermen, causing both to vanish completely from the timestream...

Whilst I think ctg might have a point (and it makes me think of what this Pandorica might be), I do like the idea that maybe Moffat is doing this deliberately and that the crack in time swallowing all the Daleks, Cybermen and daft things that happened in the past is his way of saying, "Yeah, RTD did well to bring back Doctor Who, but there was so much wrong with it! Let's pretend all that never happened, and that this series is the real relaunch".

 

[HoopyFrood]

Wait! So, if the Angels never existed now, having been wiped from time, does that mean Sally can't remember them? What if she and the other dude fall out because they can't remember the trauma that brought them together? What if the little video shop fails??

Wait, would that mean that all those people that got sent back in time before now...not get sent back?




And now Moffat's brought in his own brand of Dalek. No doubt ones that don't think it the awesome thing to do to make squid-headed human mixes (still love ya, Sec).

 

[Tillane]

Yeah, have to agree with what everyone's said - good episode, some nice grabsome lines (comfy chairs, the trees are going out), and interesting musings on timey wimey.

I also - wait for it, this one's for posterity, Hoops - have to agree with the orange one. The beginning of the episode was way choppy. Almost, almost annoyingly so. But it quickly picked up and I really did like the fact that the crack in time/universe/everything was addressed head-on. Was I the only one who saw this as a sly dig at RTD's clever-clever secrety-sneaky season arcs? Or perhaps this whole crack thing is a smokescreen for the Pandorica...which they also trailed kind-of openly. Hmm. *scratches chin thoughtfully*

Still liking Smith's Doctor, and really warmed to Amy in this ep. There's nothing like a companion in peril for my empathy gene to kick in. Thought Alex Kingston did a good job portraying a younger, slightly brasher River Song, and do hope we see her again in this series (though, like everything, I hope they don't overdo it.) Moffat has already said in a couple of interviews that we'll get to see "the whole story" of the Doctor and River. Much as I like the character, I hope it's a story we just dip into now and again.

And vamps in Venice next week. Hinteresting. Oh, and that reminds me: this was the last Moffat-penned ep until the finale. Will the standard be kept up, or will we see a dip as (I think) we did with Gatiss? I sincerely hope the former...

 

[Lenny]

Wait! So, if the Angels never existed now, having been wiped from time, does that mean Sally can't remember them? What if she and the other dude fall out because they can't remember the trauma that brought them together? What if the little video shop fails??

Wait, would that mean that all those people that got sent back in time before now...not get sent back?

From what I understand, only those that get swallowed by the time energy cease to have existed. The four Angels from Blink are frozen on Earth in an underground carpark - as the time energy didn't get them, I assume those events still stand.

I do believe that, during last weeks episode, the Doctor said something about the four Angels on Earth being lost (outcasts, possibly?).