Daenerys Theory

Discussion in 'George R R Martin' started by MSBorba, Aug 4, 2005.

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    MSBorba

    MSBorba New Member

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    Theory regarding Daenerys....

    I know Daenerys is much beloved, most of us are rooting for her to return to Westeros with her dragons and re-establish Targaryen rule, but....

    I think Martin has a much darker role for Dany to play. Throughout the first three books, Dany seems to have evolved from an innocent young girl who's life was in the hands of others to a young woman who, in my opinion, has become more and more cynical as she becomes more and more powerful.

    I'm thinking Dany will return to Westeros, so consumed by her newly garnered power and hate for the various would-be-kings, to lay waste wherever she goes...of course using the highly destructive power of her three dragons.

    In the end, some hero or heroes will stand up to Dany and defeat her. Most likely Jon Snow will lead this effort....thus the title A Song of Ice & Fire...Jon's Ice vs. Dany's Fire.

    What do you think about this theory?
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    Trey Greyjoy

    Trey Greyjoy Iron Price Payer

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    I always LOVE new theories!

    You never know what GRRM has up his sleeve and certainly anything is possible. I always assumed fire and ice foreshadowed Dany's "fire" against the Other's "ice". That it would be the Other's that bring winter to the world.

    Daenerys will certain become harder over time, we certainly have seen it. Im hoping its the shaping of a capable, decisive ruler!
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    Direwolf

    Direwolf Direwolf

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    I've felt the same way. It seems like Martin is setting her up to be a martyr. We've seen here lose her childhood, her innocence, her husband. She is now supposedly barren, the dragons are her only children. My guess is she'll be brought down by the end of the books, her dragons as well, but it will be a mighty fall.
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    Sword of the Morning

    Sword of the Morning Wielding Dawn

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    I like this theory much better then others that I have heard. This theory will have a huge emotional pull on the readers. I was crushed when Ned was beheaded. I was furious when Robb was killed at a wedding. I bounched off walls when Lys fell and in disbelief when Bonn left Tyrion. Can't wait for the next books. G.R.R.M. is the best when it comes to playing with the readers emotion. I hated Jamie in the first book, now I love his POVs.
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    AryaUnderfoot

    AryaUnderfoot AryaUnderfoot

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    I don't think Dany has become cynical- I'd say she's become disillusioned. She's learning very quickly what it takes to rule, and that power comes at a great cost and personal risk.

    I don't think that Dany and Jon will fight each other. They're both learning the same lessons on different levels. They're both good-hearted people despite the pain they've experienced. Why does it have to be ice vs. fire? Why can't it be ice and fire working together, Stark and Targaryen bringing about the fall of the Others and restoring peace to the realm?

    I can't see Daenerys becoming a spiteful scourge of the seven kingdoms. Rather, I see her as a sort of High King(Queen), allowing each greater house to rule its own lands, with her overseeing it all and granting power to those who have earned it. This would be the best way for her to go, since she will be unable to produce any of her own heirs. That way, at least she'd be able to establish peace and a stable governing of the kingdoms before she passed away.
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    Young Wolf

    Young Wolf An easy going New Yorker

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    I'm not sure in what kind of situation those two would become enemies, but one thing is for sure, they are connected in some yet unexplained way and will almost certainly become lovers. It will be quite interesting to see how it all plays out. What I would really love to see is them being both lovers and enemies to each other.
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    AryaUnderfoot

    AryaUnderfoot AryaUnderfoot

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    Blech, why is everyone so keen on incest on this board? Narsty.
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    Brian Turner

    Brian Turner Brian G. Turner Staff Member

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    It's not the incest of the human characters, as much as the symbolic interaction between different elements - we know they are closely connected somehow, the big question I'm sure George won't answer is exactly how he sees that develop.
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    MSBorba

    MSBorba New Member

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    Since Jon is likely a Targaryen, as of course is Daenerys, and because Targaryen incest is not uncommon, it is possible that Jon and Dany will somehow get together....... however, in the end like in fine Shakespearean fashion, I still feel Jon will only realize she's a relative after having killed her.
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    AryaUnderfoot

    AryaUnderfoot AryaUnderfoot

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    I'm going to take the idealist route on this one and say that I think Jon and Dany will not hook up. Beyond the fact that the thought makes me squeamish, I'd say it's a bit too predictable for GRRM.
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    Winters_Sorrow

    Winters_Sorrow Unreg. Mutant Moderator Staff Member

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    I reckon Sansa & Dany will wind up together - they've sure been badly treated by men and have built up a barrier to them. :)

    Jon can't really get involved with anyone as the Night's Watch oath prevents it. That's why I think GRRM got his love interest in and out of the way quickly.
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    AryaUnderfoot

    AryaUnderfoot AryaUnderfoot

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    I concur.

    However, Sansa and Dany... okay that's kinky but is it likely? Personally I think GRRM is setting Dany up to have an Elizabeth I type of rulership- you know, being married to her country and all that.
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    cymric

    cymric New Member

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    I think Jon will have several reasons for breaking his oath and coming off the wall.

    1. Jon will defeat the others this has been foreshadowed in the fact that he carries a Valaryian Blade, The Others Fear him somehow and his younger brother (Bran) is most likely to become the most powerful magic user in the seven kingdoms.
    2. Times are changing and as seen by Jon's friend (the fat kid) the Nights wacth is becoming more a standing army.
    3. Jon has yet to find out about his families demise.
    4. Robb Legitamized Jon making him the rightful Heir of Winterfell.
    5. Sure his love intrest was cut short but love is like a drug once you have it and feel it you want more Jon will fall in love again, My guess is that it will be Daenerys or some other independent woman.
    6. The scene were Bran crosses the wall shows us that the oath is spiritual not physical and henceforth the oath could be like that of the early knights Templar... They could Marry and hold their titles but their first duty was to the Order.
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    AryaUnderfoot

    AryaUnderfoot AryaUnderfoot

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    I don't think that Jon will ever give up his oath to the Night's Watch. Yes, times have changed, and yes, the Night's Watch is not what it once was. However, the return of the Others demonstrates the reason for guarding the Wall all those years. Before, they faded away and were thought to be obsolete. I think this final battle will prove the necessity of keeping the Wall manned, no matter how safe it is thought to be. Who's to say they won't return again?
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    Trey Greyjoy

    Trey Greyjoy Iron Price Payer

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    My thinking is along these same lines. I think there will be a re-invigoration of the Night's Watch, perhaps even a re-imagining under Jon's command. It will ultimately depend upon whether or not the Watch believes the threat of the Others will return.

    I'll make further predictions when Im 3/4 of the way through the last volume! ;)
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    Winters_Sorrow

    Winters_Sorrow Unreg. Mutant Moderator Staff Member

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    Just to play Devils Advocate - what if the Wall comes down and Jon & the rest of the Night's Watch are forced to retreat south and enlist help.
    That would have to entail him playing some sort of Politics wouldn't it?
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    AryaUnderfoot

    AryaUnderfoot AryaUnderfoot

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    Or it would simply entail those lords who have ignored the requests of the Nights Watch to actually step up to the plate and do their duty. After all, the Others would swiftly become the problem of more than just the NW by then.
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    Winters_Sorrow

    Winters_Sorrow Unreg. Mutant Moderator Staff Member

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    oh, I think when the Others come charging down the last thing these armies are going to do is join forces. More likely cheer when their enemies get butchered and then watch in horror when it happens to them....at least at first.

    Winning a war isn't about might or right...it's about who's left :)
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    red_temple

    red_temple Boo!

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    To build on WS's question - if the wall does come down, wouldn't Jon be released from his vows, since there is no more wall? He may still feel comitted to protecting the realm from the Others, but the sheer physical presence of the wall is what keeps the Night's Watch intact. Without the Wall, and with the Others running amok all over the seven knigdoms, Jon's place can be pretty much anywhere he chooses.
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    Trey Greyjoy

    Trey Greyjoy Iron Price Payer

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    :) I like when things are running amok....

    I think **technically** due to their vows, any member of the Night's Watch should have died preventing the others from moving south of the wall. :)


    Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

    Although the leader at the time may be inclined to believe that a strategic withdrawl and regrouping may befit the realm the best. I think Jon & the Night's Watch can roam wherever they see fit to best protect the realm, but the falling of the wall itself shouldnt release them from their vows.

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