What is the most advanced civilization in fiction that does not do FTL travel or backwards time travel?

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SpeedOfLight6

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I've recently heard of mind-numbingly advanced civilizations like Xeelee and downstreamers, and they all do FTL travel and backwards time travel, both of which are at best iffy with modern physics. So I want to know what the most advanced civilizations from fiction are that do not do these are. I'm curious as to how far you can go without those things.
 
Swank said:
What's "advanced" anyway?
Click to expand...
@SpeedOfLight6 Until you can answer that question, it is difficult for anyone to answer you as the question is much too broad, and open to many different interpretations.

What exactly, is "iffy" physics?

Are Matter Transporters an example of an "advanced" civilisation, or is that not "iffy" physics too?
What about Replicators or 3D printing from a molecular level. Is this possible or is it "iffy"?
Do you allow "psionics" in this "advanced" civilisation (such as such as telepathy, telekinesis, and teleportation.) There was lot of 1960's/70's fiction that believed these real, and the next stage in "human evolution," but is that "iffy"?
Presumably, not having those also rules out any magical sword weapons or a mysterious "Force" too?
Does it also rule out the existence of God, Fate and Miracles in these works?
What about AIs? And are there living machines (which then requires a more precise definition of "Life" itself)? Can a human mind be written/copied onto a living machine?

I can think of countless books, tv and films that have those things without FTL or Time Travel, but you cannot know what might be possible in the future. I'd certainly consider them equally "iffy" physics but I am prepared to suspend my disbelief for the sake of a good story that includes them.
 
If you're asking about the most advanced hard sci fi civilization without FTL, I'm thinking about Alien and The Expanse as examples, but...then again, the Expanse ends up having
the alien gate system
, so I'm not sure that counts. So, Alien?
 
sinister42 said:
If you're asking about the most advanced hard sci fi civilization without FTL, I'm thinking about Alien and The Expanse as examples, but...then again, the Expanse ends up having
the alien gate system
, so I'm not sure that counts. So, Alien?
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Alien is FTL. That isn't all happening in the solar system.
 
I agree that Alien is a good example, in regards to the physics of space travel (in the first film anyway) not so sure about the biology, and the time in suspended animation is accounted for between Alien and Aliens, but in all those sequels...? And is suspended animation itself not "iffy"?

The "iffy" physics in SF annoys me far less (if it were something that I might believe possible/discovered in the future) than "iffy" chemistry and "iffy" biology, because Unobtanium and Handwavium, and new elements, and Dilithium Crystals, are not going to be discovered, and giant ants are not possible, because they would neither have enough surface area to take in enough oxygen to breath, nor would the be able to carry the weight of their bodies on their legs either.
 
Alien has some sort of reactionless drive and FTL. The fact that the transits are so long that hibernation is needed just means that the distances are long compared to the velocity. Hibernation is not a necessity with STL and not silly for FTL. Time, boredom and resources draw the line.
 
It's arguable whether the 'alien' or the humans are the more 'advanced'. At least the aliens don't stab each other in the back for monetary gain.

As for the question, it's probably the species that evolved from Dave Lister's cat.
 
If this doesn't scare them, they might be more evolved than we thought!

R.2900cfcfc9772e66209faa8a228425ae
 
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sinister42 said:
If you're asking about the most advanced hard sci fi civilization without FTL, I'm thinking about Alien and The Expanse as examples, but...then again, the Expanse ends up having
the alien gate system
, so I'm not sure that counts. So, Alien?
Click to expand...
Can't read the spoiler...
I bet it's



TIME MACHINES!
 
The Queng Ho and the Emergents in Vernor Vinge's A Deepness In the Sky don't have FTL.
However due to the universe havin"Zones" civilisations further from the galactic core do.
 
Robert Zwilling said:
Krell civilization from Forbidden Planet didn't appear to have spaceships.
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They'd died out though, so not a very advanced civilisation.

(We must talk about 'advanced civilisations' or 'advanced technologies' here, rather than about 'advanced humans', because evolution is a slow process. Modern humans are not any more 'advanced' that stone age humans, and these space-faring humans will be no more advanced than us. We just have more knowledge and technology than we did.
 
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