On line writing classes from agents - worth it or not?

[DAgent]

So a little while ago when I was looking for an agent to send my work off to, I came across one agent who was offering an online writing class. I decided to go with it, and after paying up found out some more of the rules. You'd be given writing prompts each day, and get to post your writing in their little forum where it could be looked over by other people on the course.

Not the agents themselves however, as they weren't getting enough money from each entrant to do so. Which I can understand, it's not like the course was sold as getting that kind of feedback in the first place, but it would have been nice to have confirmation of that from the get go. With that said, the course was well structured and did give some good solid advice, so was worth it from that point of view, and the feedback offered from the other people on the course was always constructive.

But it has gotten me wondering if there are other agents out there offering the same, or even publishers doing that. I've not found any others so far. And if so, are they actually worth going with?

Also, does anything they might have some ulterior motive with these courses, to scout out potential new talent for example? They certainly were willing to offer discounts on their other writing courses after all.

 

[Biskit]

My first reaction was that this sounds like a dodgy practice where agents take money from aspiring writers, but when I googled, the first thing that came up was Curtis Brown, who are most definitely a serious literary agency.

It's interesting that the bootcamp course is relative inexpensive, and to be fair the basic genre-writing courses are "only" £220, but with "extras" to provide more serious feedback. For a 6-week course, it works out at only about £36 per week for what sounds like some useful support, but it always has that subtle sense of "getting a backdoor" to a major agent, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

The "novel writing" course does hit a more eye-watering £1800.

 

[HareBrain]

The "novel writing" course does hit a more eye-watering £1800.

I know someone who did that. He did get a Curtis Brown agent out of it (though they have since parted ways) and others on the course have started successful writing careers. None of this is a given, of course. But for those who can happily afford it, it might be worth a look.

 

[DAgent]

My first reaction was that this sounds like a dodgy practice where agents take money from aspiring writers, but when I googled, the first thing that came up was Curtis Brown, who are most definitely a serious literary agency.

It's interesting that the bootcamp course is relative inexpensive, and to be fair the basic genre-writing courses are "only" £220, but with "extras" to provide more serious feedback. For a 6-week course, it works out at only about £36 per week for what sounds like some useful support, but it always has that subtle sense of "getting a backdoor" to a major agent, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

The "novel writing" course does hit a more eye-watering £1800.

Yeah, tis indeed them, and it was a good course, but the £1800 fee seems... like a great way for them to get a payday.

 

[DAgent]

I know someone who did that. He did get a Curtis Brown agent out of it (though they have since parted ways) and others on the course have started successful writing careers. None of this is a given, of course. But for those who can happily afford it, it might be worth a look.

Dare I ask why they parted?

I did go down the route of sending off my WIP, just waiting on the report which should come in at the end of the month.

I'll keep people posted on that.

 

[HareBrain]

Dare I ask why they parted?

I'm not too sure in his case. It does happen quite a lot, though -- the agent can't find a publisher for the book they originally took on, and then there can be a difference of opinion about what to try next, or the author thinks they might do better with someone else.

 

[DAgent]

Okay, forgot to add this, but I do wonder what every might make of this. I certainly picked up a few good pointers from it.
And does anyone know of any other agents/publishers that offer a similar service on reviewing WIPs? I've noticed their site now offers a full manuscript report for £750 for 95K words and while I've no doubt this would be money well spent, I'd like to shop around a bit

The review of my WIP was by Wyl Menmuir.

Overview:
A fascinating idea for a novel and one that may benefit from some further consideration as to nuances of characterization, and psychological realism, allowing the reader to fully immerse themselves in its more fantastical elements.

Synopsis report:
From the synopsis, this has the potential to be an intriguing and engaging novel, a twisty and complicated sci-fi inspired rollercoaster ride. What may matter in a novel like this is the internal coherence of the concept, or the logic that underpins it (even if it is speculative logic!). In other words, the events that take place might be best understood if they are part of an overall scheme – for example, what is really going on here? What caused the fog and the time shift? Why does one room in particular in the school creep people out? Why were these characters in particular affected and not others? In short, what role does cause and effect play in the plot? This internal logic – even if it is never fully explained – may have the effect of giving the reader confidence in the more speculative aspects of the plot.
You mention in the synopsis that your novel is a blend of murder, mystery, horror and sci fi – while this isn’t a problem, it may be worth considering, especially if you are thinking about pitching to agents, what it really is at heart? A clear pitch with a defined genre is often easier to place than a novel that may have elements of many genres. It can also help when you are editing and revising your novel to be clear in your mind the sort of experience you want the reader to have, which of the tropes of the genre you’re going to lean into and which you are going to avoid. I might suggest, from the synopsis, that it is actually a kind of slipstream novel, which may have implications for the way in which you develop it.

Sample report:
You start the extract with a classic horror opening, which grips the reader, and the pace of the piece is one of its particularly strong elements, as you get the drama of Dylan’s abduction off to a flying start too. With the first two characters being pulled out of their ordinary lives, the reader begins to piece together the puzzle – people are being abducted from their ordinary lives and the school seems to be at the centre of the growing mystery. It’s a promising start.
While your novel draws on aspects of horror and sci fi, what might really lift it is attention to psychological realism, and it is in this area that I might suggest you focus your efforts in the redraft and edit. Character who are pulled from their normal world into a mysterious, altered and threatening past, may well react violently to this. It is a chance to explore who your characters really are in extremis, so it stands to reason that characterization may become particularly important as you progress the novel. In some areas, I questioned the psychological realism. To give one example, with Jenna gasping out loud and almost falling over when she reads about the body discovered beneath the school hall (and similarly, her panting as she considered the implications of the news). This struck me as being slightly hyperbolic – I can’t recall gasping out loud ever when I was on my own, even when I received startling news, for example, and I wondered if a more nuanced reaction might be called for. It’s a case of working out how each of your characters, with their unique psychologies, would really respond in any given situation.

I wish you all the best as you continue to write your novel, David.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

For that I’d go for a decent developmental editor.

 

[Montero]

For that I’d go for a decent developmental editor.

How do you find one who is decent?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

How do you find one who is decent?

Word of mouth, reviews, asking for a sample edit.

 

[sknox]

How do you judge a developmental editor, who by definition is working *before* any drafts?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

How do you judge a developmental editor, who by definition is working *before* any drafts?

That's the definition of one sort of developmental editor. But since most writers aren't looking for something nearly that collaborative, more commonly a developmental editor (sometimes called a book doctor) deals broadly with an existing manuscript, analyzing it's strengths and weaknesses: style, characterization, pacing, structure, etc. (in SFF this is likely to include worldbuilding). It's a lot like the report that DAgent posted above, but likely to be considerably more detailed and in depth. Rates vary, and usually depend on the length of the manuscript.

As Jo says, you judge whether an editor might be right for you by getting recommendations, and/or asking an editor about their services and rates, and/or by asking if the editor will do a sample review of a few chapters (this is going to require a significant amount of work on the editor's part, so will probably not be a free sample, but will be a fraction of the price of editing the full manuscript).

 

[Jo Zebedee]

How do you judge a developmental editor, who by definition is working *before* any drafts?

As Teresa says, that's not a developmental editor, by and large - they pick up the draft after completion.

 

[sknox]

Ah. I always thought, well, as I said. I sit corrected.

I do vote for getting a more detailed sample edit, despite not being free. When I was soliciting editors, I found the short samples not to be really indicative of what I got in the finished product. Useful for sorting out obviously bad fits, but not enough to find a good one.