Draft 2

Dragonlady

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May 4, 2007
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What are your tips and suggestions for draft 2? Draft one is mostly pantsed, though i knew where it was going. I have read it through and added comments and done an outline, and I have a reasonable idea of some overarching things that need to be improved but am a bit overwhelmed in how to turn this knowledge into a second draft. I started rewriting the beginning of the first draft, adding in a new section i felt was needed and rewriting it with my new understanding of the charaters, but it's easy to get 'stuck' in the narrative i've already written, and conversely if i look at the text as more 'zoomed out' I forget the details and don't know where to dive in. I'm not sure i'm even making sense here, but has anyone got any suggestions? It's just over 80,000 words. Second time i've achieved a first draft, never achieved a second draft before.
 
I should also add that I managed to achieve this first draft by writing in relatively short bursts of around 300 words, due to lack of time/brainpower/easily distracted adhd brain.
 
(Not a published author, have only written part of a complete book)

I called my first draft complete when most chapters were in place, though there were bits left to write.

I began on my second draft focusing on finishing the incomplete bits and then rewriting the existing bits to remove all the telling/exposition and beggining to polish the language.

but it's easy to get 'stuck' in the narrative i've already written
I think I understand what you mean: I once had to blow away a better part of a chapter so I could rewrite it: the existing text blocked my writing. But, for the most part, rewriting/editing has been far faster and easier and more productive.

Giving myself permission to throw away stuff has been important. One key thing that came about in draft 2 is that I took about 30,000 words from the end and pushed that into the second book - it was on the second draft that I realized this first book was getting too long ~130,000 words, and that I had a good ending point at the 100,000 word mark.
 
I've only done one story to multiple drafts. One thing I did to mix things up so as to be unstuck, on one edit sweep, I went backwards in chapters instead of forwards. (I mean I started editing the last chapter first)
 
You are only on draft 2???

I'm on draft 8. And I'm a planner. :ROFLMAO: ;)

Okay, being serious, it's fantastic that you've done a couple of first drafts. That is brilliant. Definitely pat your self on the back for that!

There could be a number of different ways of going forward and improving your first draft. However, I do think that getting your work out to be read and therefore getting feedback can be invaluable. Much better, of course, if the readers are writers too, as they are likely to give advice that is more focused and to the point.

For example I'm in a (physical - it does help!) writing group and I've had fantastic comments that have really changed my view on scenes that I thought were "unchangeable" and given me lots of hard questions that led to me improving my WIP.

It's tough sending your babies out into the world., but if they have to grow up and be marvellous they have to do it at some point!
 
@Venusian Broon I'll have to get something in the critiques on here. I know many people recommend not posting there til you've done some redrafting, but at this stage i have only a small idea of what's an improvement and what isn't.
 
@Venusian Broon I'll have to get something in the critiques on here. I know many people recommend not posting there til you've done some redrafting, but at this stage i have only a small idea of what's an improvement and what isn't.
I'm not going to lay down hard and fast rules, only experiment and find what works for you.

Personally I think the quicker I got my work to another person to read, the quicker big flaws get found and corrected and thus I didn't spend any time fiddling with passages that would be struck out anyway, but, on the other hand a full re-edit for a draft by yourself can be a good idea, because self-editing is a great skill to nurture. So there is that! :LOL:

I'm not a fan of critiques here for full scale wips. Yes, if you have a very specific issue you want others to look at; a specific scene working or not, does a passage make sense etc. Then they can be great. But there could be a tendency to micromanage your editing and get you pulled away from the big view of the whole piece. So I would much prefer someone to read the whole thing and therefore make comments on how it all hangs together as a single work. Unfortunately, you will find that some of your favourite scenes, exquisitely written, are possibly not required. Sad, but it happens!
 
My system is to start with the big things and slowly move to finer details, not try to fix everything at once. So:

1. First revision pass focusing on larger issues and things I've been making notes of as I write the first draft.
2. Beta reader stage—get some eyes on the new draft once I'm done with the first revision pass!
3. Address the issues my reader(s) have picked up in the next revision pass.
4. Do another revision pass focussing on nuances: adding depth to characters, polishing up descriptions, etc. (This might take more than one revision pass.)
5. If I can, time to get some fresh eyes on this (hopefully final) version...
 
@Juliana so let's start with step one. Take a whole load of steps backwards. How do you do it? How do you make changes to larger issues - what does that actually look like when you are doing it? How can I make it less overwhelming and know where and what to change when it's overarching things like character relationships that are one of the obvious things I need to look at?
 
I can't speak from experience as I don't write second drafts of a whole piece -- nowadays I'm editing and revising continuously as I'm writing the first draft. However, if you feel overwhelmed, I think the answer is to break things down into smaller steps.

So, if the character relationships have to be altered, make a complete list** of what you think needs doing, going into as much detail as you can. Then, separately, create a chart listing every scene you've written, detailing which characters appear in them. Then go through the scene-list while looking at your relationship-list and see what you can marry up. eg if you want character A initially to show antagonism towards B, then as soon as A appears in the book, can she make a jibe about B, or if the two meet, can she provoke an argument? Put as many ideas down in as many scenes as you can, then go through and refine them -- the argument might be best appearing in Chapter 6 instead of Chapter 3, for instance, and consider what effect it will have on their relationships with others as well as the plot. Once you feel you've got the characters sorted, only then go into the novel and make amendments on the page.

In that way, you'll give yourself a template which has the overarching story, so it won't get forgotten, and you can deal with the detail of each scene as you move along.



** I'm a great believer in having a separate notebook and making lists of questions and possibilities, listing advantages and disadvantages, and every time I'm stuck, eg with a plot point, I scribble things down, and force myself to go into detail, then work out which route works best.
 
>at this stage i have only a small idea of what's an improvement and what isn't.
You have my sympathy! I experienced something very similar on my first novel. I was just so very, very lost. I recall asking people how I was even supposed to know when the first draft was done? What does done look like when you know perfectly well you're not done?

It's been some years now, so memory gets garbled with later efforts, but here's a stab at advice.

I quickly lost perspective about high level and low level. I looked more at chapters; I've since narrowed that to individual scenes (defined as where a location changes or there's a major shift in action or characters, if location doesn't change). It's usually only a matter of pages, a couple thousand words to a few thousand.

At that level, do I feel (at this point I only listen to myself) that the scene works? Does it do what it needs to do?

If so, I look at the ends. Does this scene follow well from the previous? Does it lead into the next one?

Along the way, I make note of continuity problems, inconsistencies in voice. I usually make small editing corrections like spelling, but I try to keep from getting too involved there, in case I am looking at a rewrite.

What I didn't do the first time was make a note to myself as to whether this scene works or needs work. (they nearly all do). Failing to do that often meant making changes, then having to go back through to see what I forgot to do. *sigh*

In theory, I work through the whole thing. In practice, I'd start to spot larger issues. A relationship that needs adjusting. An inconsistency in character development across larger parts of the novel. I'd get distracted by that and start making changes. At a wild guess, I'd say I wrote 20% more of the novel during revision that either never made it into the final version, or was radically changed. What had been two pages of a new or changed scene might have wound up as little more than a comment by a character. That sort of thing. I was groping in the dark.

It's worth repeating that. Despite all advice, I was still groping in the dark because I had to figure out how *I* revised. Two factors propped me up (but I often despaired). One, as an academic, I'd written complete works before. I knew I could do it. I knew there would be flailing and wailing, but that if I just kept working, however inefficiently, I'd get there. Wherever there was.

The other factor was a kind of fear. I had said I would do this. Said it in what was very nearly a promise. The fear of not finishing outweighed frustration and confusion and uncertainty and self-doubt. I kept going because I couldn't *not* do it.

It sounds harsh, but my best advice to would-be writers is: if you can stop, you should. Writing is for those who can't seem to avoid it. To put it with more humor, though no more kindness, Dorothy Parker said the best thing you could do for the aspiring writer is to shoot them in the head while they are still happy. I know others speak of how much fun they have writing, but that ain't me.

A quick word about other readers. I held off. I didn't want to make someone else wade through my novel until that novel was my best effort. Other authors have a different approach and that's fine. You'll find yours; I just wanted to offer another perspective.

I've been prolix; I'll be succinct. Don't worry about where to begin. Pick a place and start there. Most of what you do, you will do better next time. But this isn't next time, it's this time.

Good luck, and you can rely on us for commiseration!
 
How do you make changes to larger issues - what does that actually look like when you are doing it? How can I make it less overwhelming and know where and what to change when it's overarching things like character relationships that are one of the obvious things I need to look at?
As TJ said:
I think the answer is to break things down into smaller steps

I break things down into lists of things that need work and group by type of edit. What I usually deal with in the first revision pass are the big picture things: plot holes, larger worldbuilding issues, etc. Things that break the flow, that either my critique group have pointed out in specific chapters or which I have noticed and made a note of while writing. I don't fine-tune at this stage, and I usually leave stuff like emotional/character arcs to fix later; I focus on simply making the plot work.

Characters and character arcs are usually the next stage. Sometimes this requires doing a full rewrite if I've changed fundamental things like a character's voice or personality. As in, I keep the old file open in a separate window (or print up a chapter or two) and literally retype the story. It helps me get a fresh look at stuff.

The last stage is making things pretty... I like to think of the process as a painting (note: I can't draw/paint to save my life!), so the first draft is the rough sketch, then each subsequent pass adds shading, colors, etc.

This is just one way of doing it, though. I heard a best-selling author talking about her process on a livestream, and she only does one draft, but edits as she goes — she writes three chapters, then goes back and edits, then three more, until the whole thing is done. Point is, you might have to try a few different ways of doing things until you figure out what works for you.
 
Sometimes I will do sweep edits that are more diction oriented than story, i.e. search for overused or filler words and phrases like 'that' or 'was able to' or 'really' and see if I can delete or change them. Good for when you don't have a lot of energy to deal with plot or characters....
 
What are your tips and suggestions for draft 2? Draft one is mostly pantsed, though i knew where it was going. I have read it through and added comments and done an outline, and I have a reasonable idea of some overarching things that need to be improved but am a bit overwhelmed in how to turn this knowledge into a second draft. I started rewriting the beginning of the first draft, adding in a new section i felt was needed and rewriting it with my new understanding of the charaters, but it's easy to get 'stuck' in the narrative i've already written, and conversely if i look at the text as more 'zoomed out' I forget the details and don't know where to dive in. I'm not sure i'm even making sense here, but has anyone got any suggestions? It's just over 80,000 words. Second time i've achieved a first draft, never achieved a second draft before.
My approach to redrafting is: read it. Not as a writer, but as a reader. You might want to do spell check and grammar edits first, and then you might need to leave it for a bit for this to be most effective, but the second you get to a bit where you think "nah, that doesn't work", edit that. Then simply repeat until done. Do it by chapter if that helps, so you have workable sizes of text to focus on. I also keep a note of words I overuse (just, now, perhaps - I am looking at you!) that I can later search for and thin out.

The hardest thing I find is where I misspell a word such that it is another legit word (though instead of thought). Gahh! The very devil to weed out.
 
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