An interesting article about writing female characters

[Jo Zebedee]

I try to avoid anything that’s stereotypical of either. But my male characters often lack some of the machoism in other books. Perhaps that’s unconvincing as a woman writing male characters

 

[HareBrain]

Perhaps that’s unconvincing as a woman writing male characters

It wouldn't stop an individual character being convincing, because real people exist on a continuum. But I think it must be hard to write the effects of hormones, because they're so basic and fundamental to how we operate. Imagine trying to convincingly portray in POV the effects of adrenaline if you'd never really experienced them, having to rely only on observation and other people's accounts. I think the same must go for testosterone, to some extent (which obviously women do experience, but not so much). And as male writers age, they have to do it increasingly from memory!

 

[Cathbad]

"machine awe", like when a Spitfire flies close overhead

While working at a nuclear duty site in Germany, I heard a lot of young men comment excitedly when US Aircraft would make low fly-overs. I would inevitably ruin their enjoyment by commenting, "You realize they're practicing the destruction of this site - and thus your death - in the event we're overrun?"

But back on topic: I'm always concerned I'm writing my female characters too masculine!

 

[Serendipity]

While working at a nuclear duty site in Germany, I heard a lot of young men comment excitedly when US Aircraft would make low fly-overs. I would inevitably ruin their enjoyment by commenting, "You realize they're practicing the destruction of this site - and thus your death - in the event we're overrun?"

But back on topic: I'm always concerned I'm writing my female characters too masculine!

When I was very young, my grandmother caught me sobbing away in a corner. She of course asked what was wrong. I told her that Daddy had wanted a little boy instead of me (me being a girl).
She stormed off and asked Dad whether he had wanted a boy instead of a girl.
His immediate reply was, 'No, but I got one!'

What I'm saying in a round about way is that some female characters do have more masculine mannerisms than others.

 

[Cathbad]

 

[AlexH]

I've been asked (by a couple of female writers after reading/hearing my stories) how I write from female PoV because they couldn't write from a male's perspective. I was a bit baffled at the question as I write any character in the same way regardless of gender (with hindsight, maybe that's my answer). In most of my stories you could swap the genders and it wouldn't make a difference. Maybe that's a good barometer of writing outside your own gender - if you change the gender, does the character still work or is something off? Sometimes it depends what you're writing about, of course. I think some writers make it difficult for themselves and it probably helps to avoid certain topics and stereotypes.

I've made errors, but that's where critiques and beta readers can help.

No one is going to get everything right all of the time and people should be given some slack. There's always a chance someone will see a subtext that wasn't intended.

 

[zmunkz]

I pretty much always just try to write “people” and stay away from anything I associates strongly (stereotypically?) with a man or a woman. While that works, and perhaps keeps me out of trouble, I increasingly think it looses verisimilitude. I’m enjoying this thread but it’s still not clear to me how you can explore some of the realities of gender experiences without setting yourself up for a lot of problems.

I’ve even modeled characters based on people that I know very well, only to scratch things out that I knew would raise eyebrows, true though they were to that particular person, and hence, character.

Is there a trick to this?

 

[Toby Frost]

But I think it must be hard to write the effects of hormones, because they're so basic and fundamental to how we operate.

Years ago, I asked a female friend how to write women. She said "Don't go on about periods". Strange advice, but it makes sense: I think it covers a lot of ground not to go on about stereotypically "women" things, like the (hypothetical) woman looking at her breasts in Jo's workshop. I think a lot of bad female characterisation in older novels comes from the idea that women are permanently affected by massive doses of randomly-determined hormones, hence their supposedly irrational and crazy responses to normal things.

how modern creativity seems to be working explicitly against empathy

Er, at the risk of sounding like a broken robot, what does this mean exactly?

 

[HareBrain]

Is there a trick to this?

I think it's the same issue as writing any character who is, past a certain point, different from yourself. You go beyond what you can convincingly inhabit, and move to observation, and this brings the risk that you don't get it right. But I think if you don't go beyond that point, then your characters all will have more of a flavour of you. This might not necessarily be a problem.

For example, I probably couldn't write a hero of a military story from within my own skin. I lack both the experience and the mindset that I imagine such a person would have.

Years ago, I asked a female friend how to write women. She said "Don't go on about periods".

I think it's rare for a male writer, at least in SFF, to even acknowledge that women have periods! And my point was more about testosterone, because that's one I have experience of, and the one that, to me, is often not reflected in some portrayals of male characters (and this can be a choice to write a particular kind of character or story rather than because experience/knowledge is missing; it's clearly a complex question).

 

[Phyrebrat]

Similarly, I have yet to meet a woman, either in real life or a writer, who really gets the kind of thrill that I might describe as "machine awe", like when a Spitfire flies close overhead or a Vulcan bomber takes off.

I keep saying I’ll bring my sis to a LonChron. She’s just like us in that ‘machine awe’ regard. We argue over whether Y-wings or x-wings are better etc

As far as writing women goes I’m not sure I’ve written enough to know. Or get that kind of feedback. I know I have to stop writing every female character as Bette Davis - I’m such a stereotype.
pH

 

[Cathbad]

Bette Davis was a scary old gal.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Sorry everybody, I telescoped far too much into far too few words owing to lack of time!
Here's the link to the (excellent) Radio 4 programme.
Toby - lack of empathy < > inability to accept that a man can imagine a woman, a woman can imagine a man, etc etc.
In a hurry! Life getting in the way, dammit!

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Just to throw the cat amongst... we know women are, by and large, stronger in empathy tests (insert all the usual caveats, as a trend, not all women, not all men, etc etc) although we don’t know is that nature/nurture.

 

[HareBrain]

we know women are, by and large, stronger in empathy tests (insert all the usual caveats, as a trend, not all women, not all men, etc etc) although we don’t know is that nature/nurture.

I would expect that readers are also stronger in empathy, but I don't know if that has ever been demonstrated? (And if so, and women tend to read more, which comes first?)

 

[Brian G Turner]

swap the genders

I thoroughly recommend this - it's a great way to reveal hidden pitfalls, and inspire better character development.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I would expect that readers are also stronger in empathy, but I don't know if that has ever been demonstrated? (And if so, and women tend to read more, which comes first?)

I’ve never seen any study about how readers rate for empathy but I do come across a lot of the research into Emotional Intelligence (which empathy is a key component of) so i’ll keep an eye out.

Removes anorak

 

[Mouse]

It seems to me, for example, that friendship between females is often quite different than friendship between males. The closer I am to my male friends, the more we (jokingly) insult each other. I don't observe that happening between my female friends.

Because they don't do it front of you.

Women aren't that different from men.

Me and @Phyrebrat (jokingly) insult each other all the time. Me and my female best mate used to do it too (and it's not stopped because we grew up or whatever, it stopped because she passed away - and I could just imagine the sort of things she would've been winding me up about at her funeral!)

 

[HareBrain]

Because they don't do it front of you.

Turns out you're right -- I have some female friends/relatives who are quite sensitive to criticism (or perceived to be so), which stifles this kind of banter, but I've just talked to one of the others and she says that away from these sensitive people, she does do it a lot.

And I forgot, the main female character in my new thing does do exactly this. It just feels right for her. But she is in an easy, established friendship with at least one other character, and the female characters in my main series aren't.

 

[Joshua Jones]

I am curious if there are things which are taboo to banter about for women, and 1. if that list is different for men, and 2. If that list varies substantially by culture. The closet anthropogist in me thinks this could be an interesting area to study...

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I am curious if there are things which are taboo to banter about for women, and 1. if that list is different for men, and 2. If that list varies substantially by culture. The closet anthropogist in me thinks this could be an interesting area to study...

I have 3 older brothers and no sisters. They have a few things they don’t talk about with their wee sister but mostly we banter the same way. And I have things I don’t talk to them about. But with my mates? Nah. We’re pretty open and will banter about most things