Horses and tunnels and long-legged -- oh. No. Just horses and tunnels.

[cgsmith]

You can't compare sprint speeds like Usain Bolt's 28mph to sustained speeds like a "25-30mph gallop". Bolt can't run at 28mph for longer than 100 meters or so, a horse can gallop at 30mph for over a mile.

The current world record 1-mile run for a human is Hicham El Garroj at 3:43.13 (16.1mph), while the world record Kentucky Derby run is Secretariat (1:36.4 at the mile; 1:59.4 at 1.25 miles - 37.69mph). That is *over twice the speed* of the human. More importantly, even a not-so-great horse could run at ~20mph for a mile, which no human can possibly match.

The man vs horse race only becomes a fair matchup over a marathon-like distance of 20-24 miles... even then the human has only a very small percent chance of victory (twice over 35 years) and this is completely dependent on hot weather causing the horse to tire out. Horses are not good at handling extreme heat; this is why people in very hot climates ride camels or donkeys.


If you're considering terrain, rough terrain slows a human MUCH more dramatically than it slows a horse. Try walking through brush; it is painfully slow and you risk breaking an ankle. A horse with good shoes can move much more easily than a human. Horses can also ford shallow water much more easily than a human. The only exception is vertical terrain; a human can climb rocks and clamber up steep slopes that a horse cannot.

I was comparing them in terms of being the top speeds of each animal. Like the gallop is basically the horses sprint, but they can sprint for upwards of a mile and a half, fit/different breed horses longer. That's how I was looking at it. I think we are pretty much in the same camp, an everyday horse can beat most humans in most running situations.

Edit: I excluded bacteria because they can't run.

 

[cgsmith]

Re: heat management:

Of course humans are not unrivaled as a species. Archaea, Thermophilus bacteria, and tardigrades can all survive near-boiling or boiling temperatures.

Humans are believed to have among the highest heat endurance of any large multicellular creatures, as long as we have access to water and salt. Humans sweat more effectively than any other extant mammal. (Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=kiseoBGEKqAC) Humans also have the ability to make containers for carrying water, and we can drink while running. This gave our prehistoric ancestors the ability to run down much stronger and faster prey simply by running under the hot midday sun. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting)

A camel's maximal heat tolerance is similar to a human's. It can't survive 50C temperatures like an insect or microbe can, it's limited to 40-42C much like a person. The difference is that a camel is incredibly water-efficient, it's completely adapted for the water-deprived environment. A human working in 40C weather will require large amounts of water and salt per hour. A camel requires only 1/4 as much water as a human despite weighing 4x as much, making it ~16x more efficient.

Gosh, I totally forgot to consider water. I remember the sweating being a huge factor but of course that doesn't work without a nice drink every once in a while.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

A camel requires only 1/4 as much water as a human despite weighing 4x as much, making it ~16x more efficient.

How does it compare with a Diesel VW or a horse for noxious emissions?

Anyway, most people might think a person on foot has NO CHANCE, but if the "troopers" or whatever are not exercising their horses regularly, are a lazy undisciplined lot (i.e. typical fixed barracks types without someone good in leadership), then it's quite a bit more plausible for someone to escape, simply by having more endurance, though climbing stuff horses can't jump, or knowing the secret path through swamp/marsh/sewers etc. makes it a lot more likely. Especially if the horses are carrying big well fed men, picked for intimidating bulk, not as jockeys/riders, food, camping gear, weapons and maybe light armour.

 

[Dave]

I'm surprised by all of this but you have convinced me: a man can outrun a horse under most circumstances. What that means is that you have ruined the film Planet of the Apes for me. Those very large, brutish Gorillas on horseback in heavy leather armour would never be able to catch the lithe humans running through the forest glades.

 

[Kylara]

The lazy barracks guys won't be the ones looking after the horses though. They will be kept fit and fed by the stable workers. The horse riding barracks guys will have to train on their horses regularly and that routine is a big thing to overcome or ignore, probably be fired.
I'd still be on the side of horses, they can climb pretty steep slopes, and pretty fast to go around them

 

[Venusian Broon]

How does it compare with a Diesel VW or a horse for noxious emissions?

Anyway, most people might think a person on foot has NO CHANCE, but if the "troopers" or whatever are not exercising their horses regularly, are a lazy undisciplined lot (i.e. typical fixed barracks types without someone good in leadership), then it's quite a bit more plausible for someone to escape, simply by having more endurance, though climbing stuff horses can't jump, or knowing the secret path through swamp/marsh/sewers etc. makes it a lot more likely. Especially if the horses are carrying big well fed men, picked for intimidating bulk, not as jockeys/riders, food, camping gear, weapons and maybe light armour.

Yes, I've read/seen that humans are built for endurance was probably the earliest form of hunting that humans developed - Persistence hunting. (How they know? Must be a total guess really , but persistence hunting is still practised by some people today and doesn't really require tech like bows and arrows!)

Took a while, but it means humans can corner and capture quadrupeds that at first seem far too fast - and therefore I don't doubt that a human on foot does have a bit of chance because of this against some on horses

 

[Ray McCarthy]

What that means is that you have ruined the film Planet of the Apes for me

That wouldn't be my difficulty. I never liked it.

I'd still be on the side of horses

Even the ones that Gulliver met?
I'm on the side of humans. I don't want ape or equine overlords. Besides horses have no thumbs.

 

[cgsmith]

How does it compare with a Diesel VW or a horse for noxious emissions?

Anyway, most people might think a person on foot has NO CHANCE, but if the "troopers" or whatever are not exercising their horses regularly, are a lazy undisciplined lot (i.e. typical fixed barracks types without someone good in leadership), then it's quite a bit more plausible for someone to escape, simply by having more endurance, though climbing stuff horses can't jump, or knowing the secret path through swamp/marsh/sewers etc. makes it a lot more likely. Especially if the horses are carrying big well fed men, picked for intimidating bulk, not as jockeys/riders, food, camping gear, weapons and maybe light armour.

Yeah, most people - myself included until this thread happened - do believe that. So if you choose to go with something that is most likley commonly thought to be impossible, like running away from some horses on foot. Do you think its important to point out why it wasn't impossible. Like the character saying after the escape to a friend that they thought it would be impossible and maybe a little explanation. Or something better than that obviously.

Plus I don't think a human can outrun a horse at all. A marathon is different because human and horse are pacing themselves. But in a chase surely the horse would win (unless of extreme terrain advantage to human) because they are fast and over the sort of distances a chase might happen over the human endurance advantage, however small or large, wouldn't come into play.

A human chasing down a horse would be a different story though.

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

"Besides horses have no thumbs."

They manage quite well without. They have clever lips and tongues when it comes to things like stable door bolts and feed room door handles....

I'm on the side of the horse, too. In the organised man v horse races, the times the man won were when the ground was unusually hard. The riders didn't want to cause the horses injury so they eased them back a bit, giving the man an advantage. If pushed, the horses would still have won but then there would have been a massive animal rights outcry (and rightly so). A human will push himself beyond reason in order to win or survive but we rarely, if ever, push horses that far, even in the big, famous horse races.

If the men pursuing Hex's mc are desperate to catch her, they'll push their horses hard enough to risk injury because this is fictional real life, not a TV programme where the producers are under scrutiny

 

[Kylara]

I was just about to say that Kerry. Generally we don't push horses as hard as we could because we want then to last and not founder or get injured. If you are part of an active horse patrol type thing, you can push your horse much harder because you will have such a large herd that losing one to foundering or injury is acceptable in order to catch someone.
Endurance races like that marathon you wouldn't push your horse so far. A friend was a PC champion Endurance rider but lost by quite a bit a few years ago due to the volume of road work in a course. Her horse is unshod for health reasons and not good on hard surfaces (also getting on a bit), hence the endurance discipline. She refused to push him into even a trot on the road due to his feet and tendons and so Rode a very slow race. Of course she could have pushed him, but he would have been badly injured and potentially retired from it.

Difference between "pet/competition" horses and working ones. Horses can be extremely fit and strong if they are trained everyday for a purpose like scouting, driving etc. For eg we can push one of the pony pairs when fully fit on the road as they are shod for road work, are trained everyday for that, and we can push them even more on softer off road terrain. However we do rest them and don't push so much on bad roads or wet/hard ground to save them and so we can keep using them. Pursuers won't have this consideration. Capturing suspect is all, and a couple of foundered horses or injured ones is acceptable, especially as you'd probably be walking slowly back anyway after capture