The Storyteller
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2014
- Messages
- 243
Hello all. I apologize in advance for a long post...
As some of you may know from my previous posts, I have recently begun work on the second draft of a middle grade(ish) fantasy novel. I have given myself a deadline for a finished copy of this novel (end of next summer) as I feel deadlines are sorely lacking in my writing experiences! And, since I chose to focus on this idea because it is a shorter, more simple story, I would like to actually finish it! However, I’ve been having some trouble…
When I started this story, my main inspiration for it was the ‘voice’ of it, which to me would be something along the lines of The Hobbit, The Chronicles of Narnia (sort of), Lloyd Alexander’s books, etc. Based on this, I wrote the entire novel with a similar kind of tone, creating a story I thought was humorous and enjoyable to read, but also had some drama and action. The basic plot is that a gnome named Mulgrin must go on a quest and become a hero in order to become a wizard. But he bases most of his ideas and plans on stories, causing him to do very foolish things. (For example, he sets out with hardly any food or supplies, since heroes in stories don’t start out with very much and yet food always seems to find them.) Needless to say, he soon discovers the real world is very unlike the stories he has grown up with.
Almost a year ago, I put up the first 600 words on the critique forum and got a lot of feedback, which was mostly concerned with two issues; the beginning was too slow/boring, and the point-of-view didn’t work. The POV included some head hops and was confusing between omniscient and close third.
When I went to rewrite the beginning for the second draft, I attempted to address the issues brought up. Unfortunately, I seemed to just keep hitting my head against a wall. Somehow I just couldn’t make it sound right, and since the ‘voice’ was the leading inspiration for the novel, I was having trouble moving forward when I was failing to capture that voice. Somehow by eliminating the ‘head hops’ and trying to bring it into close third, I was losing the sound I had loved in the first draft.
I started doing a lot of research into POV, and honestly I feel more confused now than I was before. While I used to think I understood POV fairly instinctively, now I’m not certain if I know what I’m doing or not. Plus, a lot of what I read about omniscient/close third viewpoints was inconsistent. I pulled out dozens of my dad’s younger reads from his library and studied the narrative to try and get a better idea of it all, but I still feel a bit unsure what is what, or where my story falls.
I tried reading over different segments of my story and identifying what POV it is and if it was consistent. Mostly, it seems omniscient, but at times I think (by some of the definitions) it would be close third. Regardless, all accounts said that omniscient (while once popular) is very out of style, is hard to write, and would be difficult to get published.
So I thought maybe I should try gearing away from omni into close third, but unfortunately that really doesn’t suit my story, and the ‘voice’ that was my entire inspiration is clearly one suited to omniscient. The narrator is the one with the voice, and it is through this narration that the humour comes to light. Because the feel of my story is something based on a lot of the older books I love, it falls into the same omniscient style that was popular at that time. And for the most part I feel it suits my story.
Because Mulgrin is a bumbler and a bit of a fool, it works really well to have a narrator remarking on his actions, as an omni narrator is able to note things Mulgrin would not. He is quite unlikely to see himself as comical or as foolish as he is, nor is he observant enough to really read much into other people’s actions.
For example, Mulgrin meets an irritable creature who serves as his guide, and at one point the narrator says: “With much stumbling on Mulgrin’s part and several insults from Proto-Ganzit—who was having more fun than he had had in years—they came finally to a pleasant, burbling brook.” I wouldn’t be able to say that in close third as Mulgrin doesn’t know that Proto-Ganzit is having fun, nor would he be likely to notice it. I could try to hint at it, but it would be difficult to get it across right. Plus, it would lose the humour captured in a simple line of narration.
The first half of the story especially leans towards humour and seems best for omni; it is used in a similar way as Gordan Korman’s ‘I Wanna Go Home’, which I feel is a perfect example of that POV working well and not being confusing with ‘head hops’, not to mention using the style to maximize the humour. (In that book, you don’t feel you are particularly in any one’s POV specifically, but more that you are ‘watching’ the action. You do periodically dip into someone’s head for one paragraph, which allows for additional humour and insight in the story. It was never jarring, and remains one of the funniest children’s novels I’ve read.) So for that reason, I thought maybe I would carry on with omni regardless.
But later in the story, as the MC gains some wisdom and learns the world isn’t as it seemed, he begins to be less foolish, and the story takes him a bit more seriously. We see more often what is going on in his head, and have a little bit less of the ‘distance’ omni creates. So for the second half, I could almost swing close third, but again that isn’t suited to the first half, and I do continue to go for humour and use the omni in the second half despite times when we focus in more on Mulgrin. I could change the tone of the second half to humour and lose the more serious parts in order to help with the consistency so that the omni doesn’t slip into close third during the second half of the story, but I feel that doing this would undermine some important elements of the story.
When I reread my first draft, I didn’t find the POV at all unnatural or confusing, and the person who is currently reading it for me didn’t notice anything wrong or find any scenes jarring. But then, several people did mention it in the critique. Admittedly, there it wasn’t handled very well, and I think that in future scenes it isn’t so distracting, so maybe they wouldn’t have an issue with other scenes.
I have tried and tried to find a POV that can reconcile all the different factors and tell my story in the best way ,and I just can’t figure it out. I worry about using omniscient in the first place; though it is the voice best suited for the story, I know it is considered a bad idea, and I worry that I won’t be able to handle it well enough, or that because it’s out of style it will completely ruin my chances at getting published. But if I turn it to close third, I just don’t know how to reconcile that with the character/humour. Omni creates distance, and that is what I want, to some degree! By being a bit distant, we can laugh at Mulgrin’s foolishness, but if we are too close, then we are supposed to sympathize with him instead of laugh at him, which kind of defeats the point.
All in all, I find myself very lost. I want to continue to work on this novel and attempt to finish it by my deadline, so I really don’t want to change focus yet again in order to wait until I’m ‘more experienced’, or to read a whole lot of books that will presumably make me more knowledgeable. But I also don’t know how to deal with this POV issue.
I personally like what I wrote and the way I wrote it is fine (with editing and rewrites of course!), but I worry others won’t agree, especially publishers. I know omni is out of style, but at the same time I can think of at least a few series that are written in this POV that are still popular in school libraries, and I personally believe that kids could and would enjoy my story. I don’t know how to turn it into close third and feel it wouldn’t suit, but I’m not certain that I’m properly following omni through to the end, or that I should be attempting it with so little experience.
Is it at all possible to mix omni and close third in a way that isn’t considered taboo? Is writing in omni at all absolute suicide? Is occasional head hopping with paragraph breaks better than omni or worse? If the POV I’m using works for me, is it okay to write in it (even if it doesn’t always follow the rules), or should I change the whole thing to something more conventional? I do believe that it can work, and some of my favourite books handle it very well. My gut says to write it the way I have been instinctively, but my head worries that I shouldn’t. Or perhaps there is a compromise between what I want and what would be accepted by others?
For the most part, the POV does hover close to Mulgrin, but the distance allows for a lot of humour, and also gives us some funny and/or important insights into other characters we would otherwise miss. This is the way the story unfolded, and if I change it completely I may no longer have the story I set out to write, in which case I’m not sure I would still want to write it. :S
I’ve been mulling over this for almost a week now and haven’t come to any conclusions. Any kind of feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.
As some of you may know from my previous posts, I have recently begun work on the second draft of a middle grade(ish) fantasy novel. I have given myself a deadline for a finished copy of this novel (end of next summer) as I feel deadlines are sorely lacking in my writing experiences! And, since I chose to focus on this idea because it is a shorter, more simple story, I would like to actually finish it! However, I’ve been having some trouble…
When I started this story, my main inspiration for it was the ‘voice’ of it, which to me would be something along the lines of The Hobbit, The Chronicles of Narnia (sort of), Lloyd Alexander’s books, etc. Based on this, I wrote the entire novel with a similar kind of tone, creating a story I thought was humorous and enjoyable to read, but also had some drama and action. The basic plot is that a gnome named Mulgrin must go on a quest and become a hero in order to become a wizard. But he bases most of his ideas and plans on stories, causing him to do very foolish things. (For example, he sets out with hardly any food or supplies, since heroes in stories don’t start out with very much and yet food always seems to find them.) Needless to say, he soon discovers the real world is very unlike the stories he has grown up with.
Almost a year ago, I put up the first 600 words on the critique forum and got a lot of feedback, which was mostly concerned with two issues; the beginning was too slow/boring, and the point-of-view didn’t work. The POV included some head hops and was confusing between omniscient and close third.
When I went to rewrite the beginning for the second draft, I attempted to address the issues brought up. Unfortunately, I seemed to just keep hitting my head against a wall. Somehow I just couldn’t make it sound right, and since the ‘voice’ was the leading inspiration for the novel, I was having trouble moving forward when I was failing to capture that voice. Somehow by eliminating the ‘head hops’ and trying to bring it into close third, I was losing the sound I had loved in the first draft.
I started doing a lot of research into POV, and honestly I feel more confused now than I was before. While I used to think I understood POV fairly instinctively, now I’m not certain if I know what I’m doing or not. Plus, a lot of what I read about omniscient/close third viewpoints was inconsistent. I pulled out dozens of my dad’s younger reads from his library and studied the narrative to try and get a better idea of it all, but I still feel a bit unsure what is what, or where my story falls.
I tried reading over different segments of my story and identifying what POV it is and if it was consistent. Mostly, it seems omniscient, but at times I think (by some of the definitions) it would be close third. Regardless, all accounts said that omniscient (while once popular) is very out of style, is hard to write, and would be difficult to get published.
So I thought maybe I should try gearing away from omni into close third, but unfortunately that really doesn’t suit my story, and the ‘voice’ that was my entire inspiration is clearly one suited to omniscient. The narrator is the one with the voice, and it is through this narration that the humour comes to light. Because the feel of my story is something based on a lot of the older books I love, it falls into the same omniscient style that was popular at that time. And for the most part I feel it suits my story.
Because Mulgrin is a bumbler and a bit of a fool, it works really well to have a narrator remarking on his actions, as an omni narrator is able to note things Mulgrin would not. He is quite unlikely to see himself as comical or as foolish as he is, nor is he observant enough to really read much into other people’s actions.
For example, Mulgrin meets an irritable creature who serves as his guide, and at one point the narrator says: “With much stumbling on Mulgrin’s part and several insults from Proto-Ganzit—who was having more fun than he had had in years—they came finally to a pleasant, burbling brook.” I wouldn’t be able to say that in close third as Mulgrin doesn’t know that Proto-Ganzit is having fun, nor would he be likely to notice it. I could try to hint at it, but it would be difficult to get it across right. Plus, it would lose the humour captured in a simple line of narration.
The first half of the story especially leans towards humour and seems best for omni; it is used in a similar way as Gordan Korman’s ‘I Wanna Go Home’, which I feel is a perfect example of that POV working well and not being confusing with ‘head hops’, not to mention using the style to maximize the humour. (In that book, you don’t feel you are particularly in any one’s POV specifically, but more that you are ‘watching’ the action. You do periodically dip into someone’s head for one paragraph, which allows for additional humour and insight in the story. It was never jarring, and remains one of the funniest children’s novels I’ve read.) So for that reason, I thought maybe I would carry on with omni regardless.
But later in the story, as the MC gains some wisdom and learns the world isn’t as it seemed, he begins to be less foolish, and the story takes him a bit more seriously. We see more often what is going on in his head, and have a little bit less of the ‘distance’ omni creates. So for the second half, I could almost swing close third, but again that isn’t suited to the first half, and I do continue to go for humour and use the omni in the second half despite times when we focus in more on Mulgrin. I could change the tone of the second half to humour and lose the more serious parts in order to help with the consistency so that the omni doesn’t slip into close third during the second half of the story, but I feel that doing this would undermine some important elements of the story.
When I reread my first draft, I didn’t find the POV at all unnatural or confusing, and the person who is currently reading it for me didn’t notice anything wrong or find any scenes jarring. But then, several people did mention it in the critique. Admittedly, there it wasn’t handled very well, and I think that in future scenes it isn’t so distracting, so maybe they wouldn’t have an issue with other scenes.
I have tried and tried to find a POV that can reconcile all the different factors and tell my story in the best way ,and I just can’t figure it out. I worry about using omniscient in the first place; though it is the voice best suited for the story, I know it is considered a bad idea, and I worry that I won’t be able to handle it well enough, or that because it’s out of style it will completely ruin my chances at getting published. But if I turn it to close third, I just don’t know how to reconcile that with the character/humour. Omni creates distance, and that is what I want, to some degree! By being a bit distant, we can laugh at Mulgrin’s foolishness, but if we are too close, then we are supposed to sympathize with him instead of laugh at him, which kind of defeats the point.
All in all, I find myself very lost. I want to continue to work on this novel and attempt to finish it by my deadline, so I really don’t want to change focus yet again in order to wait until I’m ‘more experienced’, or to read a whole lot of books that will presumably make me more knowledgeable. But I also don’t know how to deal with this POV issue.
I personally like what I wrote and the way I wrote it is fine (with editing and rewrites of course!), but I worry others won’t agree, especially publishers. I know omni is out of style, but at the same time I can think of at least a few series that are written in this POV that are still popular in school libraries, and I personally believe that kids could and would enjoy my story. I don’t know how to turn it into close third and feel it wouldn’t suit, but I’m not certain that I’m properly following omni through to the end, or that I should be attempting it with so little experience.
Is it at all possible to mix omni and close third in a way that isn’t considered taboo? Is writing in omni at all absolute suicide? Is occasional head hopping with paragraph breaks better than omni or worse? If the POV I’m using works for me, is it okay to write in it (even if it doesn’t always follow the rules), or should I change the whole thing to something more conventional? I do believe that it can work, and some of my favourite books handle it very well. My gut says to write it the way I have been instinctively, but my head worries that I shouldn’t. Or perhaps there is a compromise between what I want and what would be accepted by others?
For the most part, the POV does hover close to Mulgrin, but the distance allows for a lot of humour, and also gives us some funny and/or important insights into other characters we would otherwise miss. This is the way the story unfolded, and if I change it completely I may no longer have the story I set out to write, in which case I’m not sure I would still want to write it. :S
I’ve been mulling over this for almost a week now and haven’t come to any conclusions. Any kind of feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.
