I'm re-categorizing my fledgling serial, need feedback, please

[Anaheim]

I began a work that's written in a series of episodes. Recently I realized that the series was very quickly going to leave my current genre because it would be too difficult to force some installments to please those readers.

The concept follows the efforts of the leader of an alien race, Vespa (the leader of a hive-colony alien race) as she returns to earth after a long time away and decides to 'improve' on the genetics of their own race (Vespans) and to 'improve' on the genetics of Sapiens (Humans) by controlling / governing / guiding / breeding with Sapiens.

Mainly, the concept aligns with Ancient Alien Theories about aliens having populated the earth. I'm taking concepts often explored in the show hosted by Tsoukalos and turning it into a full, complex work of fiction and tying together ancient history in Egypt and Peru (and other countries) with alien invasion concepts in a modern-world setting.

Question 1:
Now, in my current genre publishing stories in small-story installments is entirely acceptable and many authors see success with such stories. Are installment serials as accepted in the Sci-Fi community? Or would it be best to at least release it in 50K (or so) sized story parts? [Currently I'm aiming for a 10K installment each month.]

Question 2:
There will be graphic birth, use of violence and other tactics to control and govern Sapiens (humans), animal studies (etc). It's a very ethically-questionable story concept. Can't take over the world and an entire species without cracking a few eggs. Aliens have their own ethics.

Now, with Erotica [the genre it's in now] there are limits to content. Amazon, for example, does not permit non-consensual/rape stories. Thus, I haven't written that into the story, yet, but it will be there - even if I don't write such scenes down. Do they have issues with this for Sci-Fi? (I'm thinking the answer is no - but I'm asking just to be sure).

Question 3:
I have just two installments written, between them about 20,000 words. Sex heavy, of course. Should I rewrite them to reduce the amount of explicit sex? Which brings me to:

Question 4:
How much explicit sex is the Sci-Fi community tolerable of?

Now, I know that some people just don't like it (any sex) - don't want it (sex or romance - which my story will have plenty of no matter how much I reduce the word count for sex scenes). I hope these individuals will see my story for what it is based on blurbs and know that 'this is not for me'.

That being said, I also know that if people wanted explicit and lengthy sex scenes at every turn they'd shop in Erotica for those stories. So clearly I'm going to reduce and cut down on such elements. However what I'm unsure of is 'how much to cut back'?

Any feedback on this would be grateful.

Note: I'm shifting this series to Sci-Fi based on feedback from authors within my genre after they read the first two installments. One such individual pointed me to this forum to address this issues in more depth so here I am, fish out of water.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

As far as I know there is a genre of sci fi romance, but I've yet to come across sf erotica. There's probably some out there, though, but it would be far removed from the main sf community. In terms of mainstream sf, there is very little sex and certainly no erotica that 've ever come across. Violence, rape, that sort of thing exists but not shown in an erotic sense, if that makes sense.

In terms of that aspect of your question, I suspect we're the wrong forum to ask as what you're writing is very specialist and less about sf than erotica (by my understanding). I think you might be better seeking out amongst the erotica community any who write in a sf setting than asking a mainstream sf community about any who write/read erotica (the most common response to sex in sff books is, oh, must you... ) the tolerance for explicit sex would be very low, in my experience.

In terms of installments - that's no problem. It happens a lot. In terms of selling erotica to a sf audience, that will be a tough, tough sell. Selling sf to an erotic audience less so, I'd have thought.

 

[Mouse]

I have to go to work so I can't answer properly. I'm a romance writer (non-erotica) and springs is the sci-fi lady, so she'll know more, but this might help: http://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/sci-fi-erotica

 

[Anaheim]

Installments are okay (awesome - I'm all over it).

I think summarizing the concept up as 'The Borg' but without 'the reliance on technology to assimilate' really covers it. The Borg Queen's demeanor was my inspiration for Vespa (tapping into a childhood fascination with her).

In face of this switch I've redefined my goal for the concept: Explore the Genetic Enhancement of the human race and (later) the warfare that wages between two alien colonies while exploring the Egyptcian+Peruvian past RE human/alien history. Thus taking the sex focus and reducing it greatly - which is a bit of relief for me. By trying to write it as erotica I was going to have to jump hoops to create the erotica elements even if they didn't belong, or avoid story content all together.

I, personally, loath the idea of writing about underaged characters within an erotica flavored story. I've never had a single one - and don't intend to start, now. However, the development of a new race that has certain supernatural abilities is something so interesting I can't pass it up. [my list for reasons to take it out of Erotica and rewriting existing installments to do so are strong and numerous].

So - The Borg meets Moab IV, perhaps. Toss in some Orion women and call it a good night.

Thank you, Mouse. I'll check it out.

If after modifying the first two stories and re-releasing them as Sci-Fi I still don't gain traction then that's fine. I'll just write the story anyway. It's not like I have a choice [like, I have a serious issue with having to finish stories that I write - I cannot turn away once i get going. I don't work like that.]

None the less, the original drive that set this crazy mess into motion was my desire to bring an end to the human race as we exist today. It's something that, as far as I know, hasn't been done. Usually the invading alien force isn't painted as 'the good guy' or at least 'the protagonist' so - bucket list - I'm going to write it.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Except that it's not unheard of for the aliens to be good guys or protagonists in sf. I've done it once, District 9 skirted around it, Ender's Game explored it and its sequels even more so...I think it's important, if you're going to try to make it credible sf - that you read fairly widely in the genre. I think if you put up a thread asking if that's been done elsewhere the reading community might have some good suggestions about where to look.

@Mouse - who knew! We should collaborate on a sexy pilot romance...

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'm taking concepts often explored in the show hosted by Tsoukalos and turning it into a full, complex work of fiction and tying together ancient history in Egypt and Peru (and other countries) with alien invasion concepts in a modern-world setting.

with Erotica [the genre it's in now]

On the one hand, you seem to have come up with some story-driven elements grounded in science-fiction - yet you underline that your objective is to actually write about a lot of sex.

I appreciate that your project may be difficult to explain, but I can't help but feel that you're confused as to what your actual story objectives are.

I don't mean to sound insulting, but you also come across as more focused on ideas rather story development, which suggests (perhaps wrongly) that you're still at the start of your writing journey. If you are, do please appreciate that writing commercial-standard fiction is not simply about writing down ideas, but about having clear ideas on plot structure and character development, learning to understand the technicalities of the English language - and that to try and learn that skill is a process likely to take many years. Here's a recent thread for book recommendations on writing tools, that may be advantageous to explore:
http://www.sffchronicles.com/threads/551724/

Also, you need to be aware that alien cultures interfering with the civilisation of humanity is an old SF theme - I would strongly recommend you ensure you are well read around the SF genre to see how this concept has been treated before.

Apologies if that sounds negative - just trying to give constructive help as you asked for that.

 

[Anaheim]

Good points, Springs. Very true (re protagonist). I'm quite familiar with both so you're right on that.

Don't worry, Brian, feedback is never negative to me. While I've written for horror, thriller, collaborated - yadayadayada - I've never done a Sci Fi project. New things don't keep me from pursuing them, it just makes me research them more carefully as I go.

Yes, it is a vast concept I'm still working on so it's hard to peg it with a few questions and paragraphs [I'm not even bothering to go into too much depth - it's just too thick]. It's possible then, after looking into things further, that I might decide not to switch over. Only way to sort it out is to get feedback from writers in both genres and see what they say. Push comes to shove, I carve it in stone and bury it in the back yard - might make for a fun discover in 2,000 years.

Either way, I know that the Sci-Fi elements that are dominating and significant to the story (electromagnetic propulsion, molecular gravitational theory, genetic mapping, the theoretical science of telepathy- etc) would benefit greatly from me being here and poking around regardless of where the story fits in the end.

[Edit - I do need clarification, though, from those who mentioned it. It's the concept of 'explicit sex' that is needing to be toned down (which I sort of figured already) - not the whole concept behind species-hijacking and creating alien/human hybrids, right?

I can't imagine that Sci-Fi readers actually have issues with the entire broad spectrum of 'our characters have sex'. The message being sent is: 'we just don't want to read a lot of it in detail'.]

 

[Brian G Turner]

can't imagine that Sci-Fi readers actually have issues with the entire broad spectrum of 'our characters have sex'. The message being sent is: 'we just don't want to read a lot of it in detail'.]

One relatively recent SF book that comes to mind on the issue is Peter F Hamilton's Reality Dysfunction. It's a popular and well-regarded book that I seemed to recall didn't shy from sexual content - that may, or may not, help provide some sort of yardstick to begin with.

 

[jastius]

Holy shades of R.A. Salvatore and Orson Scott Card, there Batman.
Has it been done before? Uh, yeah. You have the whole Edgar Rice Burroughs thing going, there. You probably heard of the first in his Mars series, "John Carter of Mars"? Explores the ideas of racial propinquity throughout most of his novels, good old Edgar did.
Those series put out by Playboy press in the seventies as well.. The "Gor" other Earth series by John Norman, starting with "Tarnsman of Gor". There was a great deal of exposition on this sort of thing in his book "Slave Girl of Gor". Then Sharon Green did it from the female perspective.
Orson Scott Card had tentacle sex in Wyrms. R.A.Salvatore, Earth's renewal through embodiment of the Hero lover and the Earth Goddess of myth to renew creation, and create a new " Age" of Man.

And then there are your golden age writers. Do you think Robert Heinlien might have been able to broach the subject from the perspective of a "Stranger In A Strange Land", mayhap? Or have there be " Time Enough For Love", do you think?

So in general the question on the table is has Sci Fi boldly gone where no man has gone before? Quite...

Indeed if you watch "Demolition Man" this is skirted about. In fact when I read your descriptors Of Egyptians alien goddess and earthman, it immediantly brought to mind "The Fifth Element".

But (and this is a GIANT caveat, mind you) its never all about the sex.
Ever. Every writer intersperses bedroom antics with major action scenes. Aka John Ringo's " Cally's War"...

To balance it out as it were. What you are striving to achieve in this mini genre is basically that tried and true form of fiction, 'the Men's novel' ... Lone star the western series, Mack Nolan Mercenary's books and so on.
So if you have a major action plot backing up your other world booty calls, then there you go.

As for serializations, try the novelette size. Twenty thousand words is a nice mini book. But if you want to go smaller, you could try pitching to Playboy. Their emagazine is always looking for suchlike content.

And please do read your Heinlien. The man would write his manuscripts and unbelievably send in the first write.
Truly awe inspiring in this day and age of over self editing.
...good luck with it! (And Welcome to Chrons! )

 

[Anaheim]

Thank you, Brian, I'll look into that - though it sounds like it might be on the more extreme end. Beyond 'explicit content' is the matter of how one writes - and my style really is not conducive to 'lyrically yet technical scenes' a la David Brin.

Now, I think a safe line is probably with a 'Star-Trek' yardstick. Fade-to-black for all things casual, and for other more essential elements only presenting enough for the reader to get the gist. Beyond that, it's excessive and goes against the purpose.

I'll look into the Science-Fiction romance, though (thanks for bringing that up, Mouse). Since my work will heavily explore relationships with no inhibitions I have a feeling this is where it'll be best received.

Edit to add:
Jastius, thank you for all of that. Apparently all of my interests have landed me squarely in every series that doesn't really engage in it. Maybe I just don't remember if sex was explored in what I've read much. The only thing I can recall clearly addressing 'hybrid children' was Dune - and wow that was a long time ago I read that.

I'll look into those authors purely to expand my ever growing queue of books to read. And I'm sort of thrilled that you thought of The Fifth Element - I watch it often when writing (background noise).

 

[tinkerdan]

I have a fellow author who does both erotica and science fiction and on one occasion she's come close to melding the two in one part of her science fiction universe; although she claims that the sex in that novel is mild compared to her erotica. Commercially she's made it clear that the erotica outsells the standard science fiction. She uses pen names that don't intersect and I've not yet pressed for identification of the name with the erotica because I don't go out of the way to read that. I enjoy her science fiction because her characters are believable and well crafted along with the plot and all the technical ideas. Even the novel that ran closely to erotica was well done.

That much said I think there is still a fine line to run in introducing the erotica into science fiction. You might want to ask how much it drives the plot and how important it is to character development. As to "rape" there are many opinions about that here and the wise use of such or even the necessity of it in the form of shaping and driving the plot. When I can find the purpose behind the act I can usually accept it within the story- whatever genre it is. If it has no identifiable purpose to the story it becomes gratuitous and I'm never happy with that and then perhaps it belongs in the genre of erotica-although I could be doing erotica a disservice since I don't read it and perhaps it also demands that the sex acts have a purpose that drives the plot.

All in all though; looking back to the late 50s early 60s I still have examples of covers that have bug eyed many tentacled creatures and half naked women: so I don't know what to think.

PS;
I hate serial science fiction; especially those that are very short like the 10k variety unless you offer them on the web for free on your website as a weekly feature: then it's fine. It seems egregious to be selling 10k chunks of some undefinable sized story at 99 cents and upward no matter how well written. This is just my own opinion. 50k I might be able to live with; my review would likely be severe unless there seemed to be whole elements of story telling evident in the single piece.

 

[Anaheim]

Well I'm not wanting to introduce erotica *into* science fiction.

I'm wanting to rewrite my work to align *with* science fiction and greatly reduce the original erotica components - 'turn it down' so to speak - and dig deeper into the science fiction of it all. That way I can present this as a Science-Fiction story instead of an Erotica story.

The generic standard is 'only include sex if it's necessary to the plot' - so then you have to devise ways of determining its necessity. Clearly procreation is intrinsic to a portion of the plot - but that doesn't mean that sex scenes need to be there in great detail or quantity in order for that to occur. Aside that, genetic assimilation (from human to alien) isn't done through sex or procreation so that's null.

I think what's important to focus on are:

1) Cultural components that contrast aliens with humans.
2) Specie inter-relations.
3) How physical interactions affect and alter the hive-mind and human thought processes. This, in fact, is a key component. If all else goes then this must stay.

And that isn't too complicated to sort out, I don't think.

I'm going to do this: Red-pen everything that feels in excess and boil these scenes down to the bare essentials. I'll preserve the elements I feel are necessary to the plot. Then I'll rewrite to smooth things out and see how that reads - maybe hunt down a beta or two. If I like the simmered down results then all is well - and if I don't then I'll continue to beat the dead horse with many sticks and hope it comes back to life. High hopes. [Kidding - it's not that bad].

Tricky part is that procreation and hormone manipulation plays a very heavy role. I feel more like Doctor Phlox discussing nefarious genetic engineering practices or something.

Of course, no on here has read it, but what I'm thinking through as a serious difficulty is that I tend to capitalize on 'erotica' moments to introduce backstory and non-sex essentials.

Example: in the first book Delilah - human - mates with Ahn Drien - Alien. But in this explicit scene I explore the interworkings of the hive-mind, telepathic communication between the elders, and set up two plot points for the next story. So I would then have to reduce all sex elements and boil it down to those essentials without altering pacing and tone. OR I rework the entire structure to where these elements are presented in a way entirely unrelated to sex.

If I can just sort out these first two books that have already been written I'll be on sure footing after that.

 

[jastius]

Be careful not to lose the voice of the writing in your editing. I would copy out the text into another program to edit. Then replace all the naughty things with a placeholder word. .. The favorite of the writing site I am on (elsewhere) is potato.
Then you read through.
If all you have are potatoes after the edit and no story, then you know it was an over edit. ..
Put the story back in.. Then write more. Keep filling the potato parts until you have story.
Then back to the potato farm..

There was a famous romance novel best selling author that used to do this in reverse, putting a place marker where the sexy bits were to go then after the story was set, would go back and fill in all the placeholder bits with one spread out seduction scene that was split into bits throughout the book.

 

[ralphkern]

Stepping away from the actual genre issues you have raised, for every one of my works, two novels and one WIP, I've played around with the idea of serializing them. I liked the idea of releasing them in weekly installments as per a TV show. Each time I disregarded it (before going with TBP). Ultimately I decided to go with a single release. (although I'm sure that anyone who has read Endeavour can see the vestiges of the episodic original thought process)

The issues have always come down to price pointing, reader understanding and efficiency.

For price pointing, it comes down to what do you price each part at? The obvious answer would be, say 99 cents. But even assuming you release the first one for free, and the whole work comes in at novel length of 100000 words, that's still $8.91 for a novel length work. That suddenly makes it an expensive proposition, especially for an SP.

If you price a release at 99c, Amazon demands a 70% royalty rate, yet at $2.99 they demand 'only' 35%. So then you come down to packaging up your story into roughly thirds. Then it becomes an issue of asking for $2.99 for around 30K words. The whole work, would then come in at $6 if you release part one for free, or $9 if you don't. Either way, that still makes it prohibitively expensive. Most readers go for SP because they are cheaper than the average TP and you are negating that.

Reader understanding has probably become less of a problem, after all Hugh Howey and Andy Weir both had phenomenally successful books that started off as serials. But they now seem to have given it up as a bad idea. Also, it would seem they rode off the back of having a really strong website to make that work. They released their work in a blog style format. Have you got a similar platform? Can you drive traffic there? and would that even work anymore? I don't know.

If I examine my own Amazon browsing habits, anyone who makes it in any way complicated to read their books, I tend to skip past. Is it confusing which is the first book? Next. Does it look like I'm not going to get value for my dollar? Next. Is it too deep in a niche? Next (This might be related to your genre question. What am I getting? Fifty Shades Of Space or Battlestar Galactica? You probably need to set one genre as your 'prime' but make it clear that it contains elements of the other).

In relation to efficiency. If you release 10K chunks, you would probably have to release them at weekly intervals in order to keep a reader happy. I would suggest it would just be easier to have the whole lot beta'd, edited, proofed and released in a oner. You would only lose a few weeks at most.

Back to your genre question, just a quick pointer. Spartacus is one of my all time fave shows. Sex featured heavily in it, with the scenes ranging from love to lust to rape and whatever might lie between. Maybe how that show treated it would provide you with some inspirations for cross-genre ideas.