Auto-Crit - Has Anybody Used It?

[Dan Jones]

Hi all,

I've just completed my 5th draft of my epic fantasy The Boy With Jewels In His Eyes and think it could do with some editorial assistance to give it the best possible chance of acceptance at agencies.

The problem - I'm sure it's a common one - is that most editors cost around £700 - £800 for a full length manuscript, and epic fantasy MS tend to be quite lengthy.

I simply don't have £700, so I began rooting around for alternatives.

I found this thing online called Autocrit. It's essentially a subscription-based service which takes your uploaded text and, using a series of algorithms, picks out repetitions, cliches, overuse of adverbs, and apparently can detect things like telling not showing etc, and generally can spruce up your manuscript at a fraction of the cost of a human being.

The top monthly option costs £12 a month, and I'm seriously considering giving it a go, but wondered if anyone has encountered it before and has any anecdotal evidence of it being good, bad or ugly? I'm being open minded but skeptical about it, if that makes sense, a bit like how Mulder and Scully's love child might be.

If nobody comes forwards, then I guess I'll take one for the team, purchase a subscription, see how it gets on with my MS and perhaps write a review here or on my blog.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I think @Chris Guillory used the Smashwords autocrit and wasn't overtly impressed (he can correct me if I'm wrong.)

personally I'd try to get some good, experienced betas as a first stop. They kicked out most of my repetitive horrors. And then I'd look at an editor - I've never paid that much. @Boneman might be worth an approach - he does line edits and I can totally recommend him and @teresaedgerton, although I don't think she does line edits.

Also, remember, if an agent takes it they'll give more editorial support so if your writing isn't strong enough to stand on its own merits then maybe it's worth asking if you need more critique guidance (get to 30 posts here and we can teethy some for you), or if you're ready to submit (sorry, sounds harsh). But, really, you can get the english as nice as you like and the grammar beautiful and everything lovely but if you haven't got the stakes in place, and the conflict, and the characters and the story then it won't get picked out.

So, essentially, for me there's more to writing - and critiques - than the words and grammar and, if you're not sure your mss is ready yet, I don't think an automated program will do the same as a great beta or developmental (and not line - you'll have to edit plenty if you get an agent or publisher, and need to be confident of your grammar) editor. In fact, I think a line edit rather than learning the skills yourself might hinder in the long term.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Honestly, if cost is an issue, I'd just send the first 3 chapters to a good editor. That's exactly what I did.

Not only does it mean that - in theory - you can apply the lessons learned throughout the rest of your manuscript, it also means that - if for some reason the editor isn't right for you - then you haven't lost much in trying them.

Programs for writing I can't imagine as anything more than a novelty - it's the human eye that provides value. Especially from an editor with experience and understanding of your chosen genre.

EDIT: I'll tell you something else as well - I've just got two editing reports back, and both of them are pushing me to try and raise my bar, and both have provided examples and instances where the story/prose may be significantly improved, and even suggestions of how this might be achieved. Good editors are worth their weight in gold.

EDIT 2: Once you've got 30 posts, try putting your first 1500 words in our Critiques section. I promise that you will get some useful basic feedback. Not as good as an editor, but definitely helpful for getting used to constructive criticism, and even pointers on how to improve in general.

 

[chopper]

i'd seriously recommend other options first, if at all possible. real people have an edge that algorithms just don't get. it's not just things like adverbs, show-tell decisions, and passive voices - all of which are good things if used correctly - it's that you aren't going to be selling your book to a machine at the end of all this. can you find a writers' group? (if not, can you start a writers' group?)

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I used a similar programme (can't remember the name). I'd been given a free trial. My biggest beef was it was geared towards US English and it kept accusing me of plagiarism because I'd cannibalised bits of stories that I had written and posted online. Personally, I wouldn't have paid for it.

 

[The Judge]

I'm another one to suggest that you don't waste your money on this automated thingummy. Do you have a grammar checker with Word/whatever you use? Do you regularly want to scream because it puts wriggly lines under things that it thinks are wrong but are in fact correct, or if not grammatically correct are what are needed because of the character's voice? That, I imagine, is likely to be the case with anything automated -- it will operate to a series of rules which might or might not be relevant to you, and it won't be able to see the larger picture. And most certainly it won't be able to tell you if your plot has gigantic holes in it, or your characters are cardboard, which are more important than never splitting an infinitive.

You need human eyes to read your work. Start here once you've got your 30 posts. That will give you a start. Then when you've established yourself here you will form friendships, which can lead to beta readers and even Writing Groups, online or in person. Once you've revised your m/s in the light of their suggestions, that's the time to think of getting professional editorial help if you still feel you need it.

 

[Dan Jones]

Ok guys,

First up: this site rules! I had no idea I'd get so many useful responses so quickly, so thanks a bundle

To clarify, I'm absolutely confident about my use of grammar - I'm a stickler for it and have no problems with it. My biggest curiosity was relating to the amount of potential repetitions of words and phrases I'd used, which obviously could be picked up by a computer quite easily, as well as certain other things. But I'm really really looking to check is whether my writing has sufficient amounts of the old John Jarrold Holy Dyad of Pace and Clarity, which I guess is harder for a computer to detect.

It looks like my first aim will be get up to 30 posts pronto pronto and head down to the critiques pages. Hopefully this won't take too long!
I like the idea of betas too - where could I start there?

@springs - thanks for the recommends to @Boneman and @teresaedgerton, I'll check them out.

Thank again guys!

 

[Jo Zebedee]

One of the things my agent did was (painfully and embarrassingly) point out my repetitions. So, unless they're utterly awful I don't think they're a barrrier.

My betas mostly come from here. I think the trick is to join in, crit others (pop over to crits and sharpen your teethies, it helps with your own editing), support and share and then, when you ask, people might be ready to give the time. But supporting back is king.

We're a pretty giving crowd here (they've given me so much more than I can ever repay) as you've mentioned. The synergy comes round. Give and it'll be repaid, and then betas appear.

Ps yoda, I am. Apparently...

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I don't know if agents are the same as the producers I deal with but they have said that if you've been rejected it's not for some piddling little detail unless it is one of many constant piddling little details. If they love the story, characters, ideas, writing and it fits with what they want to market then they are not going to turn it down because you used Ariel instead Times New Roman etc or misplaced the odd comma or have the odd word you misspell.

 

[tinkerdan]

I definitely have to agree that having a person do this is best. Definitely a line edit, but somewhere down the line you will need the eye of someone you trust who can be brutally honest about the problems in your writing along with the praise for what is working.

It becomes really helpful to have them point out when you are using too much dialogue for exposition and dragging the story down. And it's even better if they do work in your genre and can come across a troublesome piece and be able to say "I know what you're doing here, I've done this a dozen times myself and when I've seen it I sometimes find a total rewrite of the chapter works best because..."

So far a machine can't do this.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Like the others I agree you need human eyes on your work. If you have to go without an editor, get as many beta readers as you can find and use them.

Next use the editing software that's available to you to be used on your own PC. Do not upload your work to sites you don't know. I don't know anything about this particular site, but just as a general rule - don't.

Now here comes the pain - and where I may disagree with my learned colleagues. The software has its place. Do use it. But use it correctly. I assume you have a reasonable ability to spell and use grammar (unlike me!). So turn the software up to eleven, where it picks up everything that's wrong or potentially wrong, and let it go through your work. It will turn up thousands of errors, most of which aren't errors, on practically every line. It doesn't matter. It forces you to read your work line by line, examining every potential issue, and then to make critical decisions about whether there is or isn't an error there. That's useful - but painfully slow.

Next, get a text to speech programme or two, and have it read your work to you. You will pick up more errors that way - especially with dialogue - but again it's painful.

Last, I know editing is expensive, very much so. I was quoted thousands of bucks for some of mine. But Brian's suggestions were good. Use the crit groups here and elsewhere, and give maybe three chapters to an editor when you're satisfied you can't take your work any further. If nothing else it should give you some idea whether or not you're on track or not.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[The Judge]

My biggest curiosity was relating to the amount of potential repetitions of words and phrases I'd used

Reading your work aloud is useful for this -- I know my ear catches close repetitions that my eyes don't. Reading backwards is another good one -- that forces you to look at the words you've written, not the ones you think you've written. Another option is to take a chapter and analyse it in detail, as if it were someone else's work, pick some words like "that" "just" or "about" which tend to be bugbears, and use a search function to find out how often they appear in the chapter, and if it's too often, start looking further afield. Pet phrases are likely to be harder to find, which is where another pair of eyes might come in useful, but for myself I still wouldn't pay for those eyes just to do that job.

It looks like my first aim will be get up to 30 posts pronto pronto and head down to the critiques pages.

Head down there now and start looking at other critiques, and offer some of your own. You'll be amazed at how much your own work will benefit from taking a red pencil to someone else's! You'll also see that although we try to ensure that critiques are given in a spirit of helpfulness, so it's not just destructive criticism, we don't always pull punches -- so it will help if you familiarise yourself with different critiquers' methods and kinds of comments, so you're prepared!

I like the idea of betas too - where could I start there?

Get to know other members first, and allow them to get to know you. Beta-reading can be a time-consuming job, especially if done properly, so people will want to be sure your work is worth their time and effort, and/or you're writing the kind of thing they want to read. Plus, reciprocity is the key to all interactions here -- you're more likely to find people willing to help you, when you've shown you're willing to help others.

So, settle in, join in, and get ready!

 

[Dan Jones]

Thanks again chaps and chapettes. I'll certainly head over to critiques and see what everyone else is up to, and become part of the group over there. I hope I can be of some help to others!

 

[chopper]

intriguing title, by the way (& i mean that in a good sense). any particular jewels - diamonds, emeralds, amythsts? - or just jewels in general?

 

[Dan Jones]

intriguing title, by the way (& i mean that in a good sense). any particular jewels - diamonds, emeralds, amythsts? - or just jewels in general?

Thanks @chopper I've often thought that the title is one of the best things I thought of in the whole book! The title is metaphorical as the protagonist has bright, differently coloured eyes - one blue (Sapphires), and one Green (Emeralds), and his name is Red (Rubies).

 

[Robert E. Parkin]

Something about this sounds fishy to me. Perhaps I'm just paranoid with all the "scams" out there, but I would want some sample and hard numbers before I tried this service. I assume you could always cancel, so there is that. It sounds interesting, but I guess I'm a bit worried in a computer program editing my work. I may write Sci Fi, but this gives me pause for some reason. Maybe I'm just too cautious.

 

[Dennis E. Taylor]

You could also consider visiting Critiquecircle.com . I always feel a little funny giving pointers to another forum, like I'm some kind of spy or something , but this one may be just what you need.

At CC, you earn credits by critting other people's work, and you spend credits by posting your own (up to 5K words at a time, IIRC). What I like about their system is that you can't see other crit comments until after you've done yours, so there's no bandwagon effect. If several people point out the same thing independently, you know you have a problem.

I've got a novel on there right now, posting a few chapters per week. The nice thing about it, since you are forced to write crits, you build experience really fast (like learning not to use really )

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I've used CC and find them good. The hook was especially helpful. My only reservation was some of my critting was being done by non-genre people so the advice could be off. I find the boards here the most supportive and the genre specialism a real asset given the genre aspects of my work are often weak.

Absolute write and critters.org are also worth a look at.

 

[Dennis E. Taylor]

I've used CC and find them good. The hook was especially helpful. My only reservation was some of my critting was being done by non-genre people so the advice could be off.

Or simply off, even if they are on-genre. There was one person who critted a couple of my postings, whose advice was just bizarre. But you can select which critters you want to view/print when reviewing the posting.

 

[Fishbowl Helmet]

This is all great advice. I would also suggest picking up a copy of Self-Editing for Fiction Writers. It's a great little book that gives a lot of really useful pointers, tips, and tricks for doing a fair amount of this yourself.

Repeating the advice to read your own stuff out loud. It's true. And pure gold for catching all kinds of things. If you primarily work on a screen, print out a copy of your piece and read it aloud with a highlighter in hand. Just mark anything you need to look at later and keep on reading. Going back and seeing a page of highlighted bits is painful at first, but it really helps get you where you want to go.