When to listen to the fear & when to plough on.

Phyrebrat

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Notwithstanding the practice of 'just finish the thing' how do you know when to listen to your doubts?

I've been ignoring the worries I am having regarding the current POV that is forefront my WIP: She is an 11 year old girl. At first I found it difficult to slip into that mindset - the age, as opposed to gender - because sometimes I use words that an 11 year old would not ('circumspect' worked its way into one of her thoughts lately which made me laugh when I caught it later that day on a read through) but then I felt I got the hang of it.

However, that doubt has now been replaced with 'this is all *** * ** ** *** ** ** ** and **** you * **** * ***** *** and what makes you think your **** *** ** will ******** ** ** ****' :D;) (okay, so that was a bit of an exaggeration).

My point is that I'm really worried that I'm gettting it all wrong and that if I spend all this time on a novel where 1 of the 3 POVs is bad, I'll be so dispirited when that comes to light, that I'll just bin it instead of rectifying. I mean, if I can't get it right now, how will I get it right later?

I'm not usually prone to such faffery but I'm really starting to feel worried that I may have taken a wrong direction in the maze early on and am now going further and further away from target.

When do you listen to the doubt and how do you verify it? Do you quit or what?

yours,

Freaked out of Walthamstow.
 
If 1 of 3 POVs is bad and they share equal screen time, as it were, then you've produced 66% decent work by your own standard and that standard and your skill is ever improving. So, for now, absorb the self doubt. Accept it, embrace it. Repeat "memento mori". It'll pass. It may take hours, days or weeks. If you dwell on it, move on to something else. You'll love yourself for having a 66% great work and a solid basis on the other 33% that you can edit and shape into something you're proud of.

In short, you never quit, you just ride the waves.
 
Maybe go read something where the POV character is the same(ish) age as Grace? Then you've got that voice lodged in your head.

Also, get on with it.
 
You will get it right later because you know what to look for, and because you will undoubtedly send bits to various lovely people here who will also know what you're looking for, and it will all get sorted out.

You can't sort it out if you don't finish it.

Alternatively, you could work on *ahem* "something else" for a while.... :rolleyes:
 
I'm not of the "just finish it" school. There is such a thing as being paralyzed by your doubts, and that is when you should try to shake it off and go on. But "going on" does not exclude going back and dealing with whatever is raising those doubts. "On" can go in both directions.

Sometimes, I think you have to trust your instincts. Are these doubts because you think you feel you are not qualified to write this story from a 11 year old girl's viewpoint? That could be rectified by getting better acquainted with any young girls in your family, or whom you already know. (Talking to real people you may know counts as research.) Or do you feel that you could do this but have made a mistake somewhere, one that had an effect on everything that comes after. If that is the problem, then I think you need to go back and look for the place where things start to go wrong and start again from there.

Uncertainty about where to go next is not always "faffery." Sometimes the right decision is one that takes a lot of thought.
 
Hard to know. You'll learn lots from writing it however it comes out. And I've hated every wip at some stage and had to plough on.

Maybe take a (short) break and let your subconscious work it out. Churn out a couple of shorts and then go back?
 
At eleven I would have used the word circumspect - why not just make her an eleven year old who would?

Personally, (and I am bad at taking my own advice as I am always going back to the beginning when I have a new idea) I would plough on then if you still haven't got into her voice you will probably have a clearer idea about how to write her out of the story on the rewrite.
 
There's probably a good reason for the doubt and my thought would be that you should at least find someone else to read this and do a reality check[more than one would be optimal, but at least one other].

One reason for this -- if you were considering self publishing-- is that it is better to address it now than during or after the process of publishing.
 
Thank you to everyone for such good (and quick!) advice. I think a large part of it may be that I'm being self-destructive.

If 1 of 3 POVs is bad and they share equal screen time, as it were, then you've produced 66% decent work by your own standard and that standard and your skill is ever improving. So, for now, absorb the self doubt. Accept it, embrace it. Repeat "memento mori". It'll pass. It may take hours, days or weeks. If you dwell on it, move on to something else. You'll love yourself for having a 66% great work and a solid basis on the other 33% that you can edit and shape into something you're proud of.

In short, you never quit, you just ride the waves.

This is a really lovely, optimistic response, thank you.

Maybe go read something where the POV character is the same(ish) age as Grace? Then you've got that voice lodged in your head.

Thanks. I've read quite a lot of this age - just finished SK's It for the third time, and as a SK fan, I've read a lot of his work which often has young characters in (Jake, in DT, Firestarter girl, the kids in Under the Dome etc) and recently read Victor Canning's The Runaways and Flight of the Grey Goose.

There is a lot of 11 year old me in Grace; she is an animal lover and I spent most of my childhood at the lake or river bank, immersed in wildlife. I think that may be what is throwing me; that part of my life is so vivid and fresh I feel like writing this is too easy and therefore must be all rubbish.

Also, get on with it.
I yam, I yam! :D

You will get it right later because you know what to look for, and because you will undoubtedly send bits to various lovely people here who will also know what you're looking for, and it will all get sorted out.

You can't sort it out if you don't finish it.

That's what I'm kind of hoping :eek: and will try to crack on with it.

Alternatively, you could work on *ahem* "something else" for a while.... :rolleyes:
Hahah. You're never going to let that one go, are you? :D:p


I'm not of the "just finish it" school. There is such a thing as being paralyzed by your doubts, and that is when you should try to shake it off and go on. But "going on" does not exclude going back and dealing with whatever is raising those doubts. "On" can go in both directions.

Sometimes, I think you have to trust your instincts. Are these doubts because you think you feel you are not qualified to write this story from a 11 year old girl's viewpoint? That could be rectified by getting better acquainted with any young girls in your family, or whom you already know. (Talking to real people you may know counts as research.) Or do you feel that you could do this but have made a mistake somewhere, one that had an effect on everything that comes after. If that is the problem, then I think you need to go back and look for the place where things start to go wrong and start again from there.

Uncertainty about where to go next is not always "faffery." Sometimes the right decision is one that takes a lot of thought.

Thanks Teresa. I do feel a certain sense of paralysis. To a large extent Grace is writing her own scenes now and I think this is causing me some worry. I'm expecting a 500-1000 word scene but then something comes up and we're off-piste for a while. It's germane to where I'd like things to go, but I'm starting to worry a little.

As far as not feeling qualified, yes, I do feel that I am blagging it a bit, but as a teacher I am surrounded by kids from ages 10 - 19 with the majority between 11-13 so I figure I'm probably in a good space to identify character traits. And as I mentioned above in response to Mouse, so much of this seems too easy that I'm doubting myself. If I could identify an actual 'here's where I went wrong' moment I'd probably feel a lot happier. What I'm worried about is the gestalt. That it's all wholly off-target, if that makes sense.

This weekend I think I'll export the 20k-something words of her POV and analyse them.

Hard to know. You'll learn lots from writing it however it comes out. And I've hated every wip at some stage and had to plough on.

Maybe take a (short) break and let your subconscious work it out. Churn out a couple of shorts and then go back?

Good tip. I'm going to get my feet wet in the 75 word challenge after a 2 months hiatus. May attempt the 300, too.


At eleven I would have used the word circumspect - why not just make her an eleven year old who would?

Personally, (and I am bad at taking my own advice as I am always going back to the beginning when I have a new idea) I would plough on then if you still haven't got into her voice you will probably have a clearer idea about how to write her out of the story on the rewrite.

Me too. But Grace mispronounces or mishears words; for example she says 'imbread' instead of inbred and 'Somaliam' instead of Somalian. I think it may be a little untruthful to allow her to say circumspect. She's no idiot, but I think it's a stretch.

I think the general consensus is to carry on so I think I will do that with a a measure of Teresa's advice, too.

There's probably a good reason for the doubt and my thought would be that you should at least find someone else to read this and do a reality check[more than one would be optimal, but at least one other].

One reason for this -- if you were considering self publishing-- is that it is better to address it now than during or after the process of publishing.

I'm not intending to self-publish, but either way I need to get this right. I may pass a few thousand words on to a friend and see what they say.

Thanks all, for the encouragement.

pH
 
My sons have both had speech delay. If anything it has given them a much greater vocabulary because they have had to think like a mini thesaurus to get themselves understood.

The same six year old that said nakes for snakes and raptop for laptop would also say things like literally and could name every dinosaur and bird. At seven we still go to a slimming pool but he may well use circumspect.
 
I've had a similar doubt about my own work in the past.

Both of my protagonists are of a vaguely indeterminate age somewhere between 10 and 13 (frankly, the precision doesn't really matter given the setting) and I've wondered a few times if I might be using their viewpoints in an overly adult way.
But... then I remember that I've also rationalised the fact that my viewpoint of one of the protagonists (a foreigner, with only a basic grasp of the language the other speaks) is entirely written in totally understandable normal english, even though her own view wouldn't be like that. It's only when she speaks to others, or others hear her speak, that that difference becomes apparent. When describing her own internal thoughts, I keep everything as completely 'normal' english, because she will completely understand her own thoughts. And in turn, the reader needs to completely understand those in the same way.
And really, there shouldn't be any difference in treatment between foreignness and youth.

I suppose a lot of it depends on whether you're writing in the first person or not though... if you are, then I can see your concern definitely. I don't think I would find the use of a word that a child wouldn't know that offputting provided it was in their own thinking. If they were actually talking to other people with terms they wouldn't understand it might be a different matter.
 
At ten, my grandniece would have been quite likely to use the word 'circumspect', possibly in the right context. She enjoyed using unusual words, and often floored me with horsey terms (I remember her having to disinfect a snaffle, which is not something she had -hch- informally obtained, but a bit of harness. Or, more precisely, just a bit.

She didn't 'dumb down' and learn that adult talk is uncool until she changed schools, and joined a group of her own age.
 
You could throw it at a beta reader, even if you normally wouldn't at this stage.

I find comedy very hard to self-assess, and without beta readers to point out what's rubbish and what works I'd find it much harder going.
 
If you are worried about something then take the positive - that you'll be more careful and work harder at it.

I worry when I actually think I've done something well. There must be something wrong somewhere....

Calm-ish in Clapton.
 
Anya, if you're open to the idea, I'd be interested in that as well. Your munchkins fall within my ideal, lower-ended, age group. :)
 
The same six year old that said nakes for snakes and raptop for laptop would also say things like literally and could name every dinosaur and bird. At seven we still go to a slimming pool but he may well use circumspect.

At ten, my grandniece would have been quite likely to use the word 'circumspect', possibly in the right context...

...She didn't 'dumb down' and learn that adult talk is uncool until she changed schools, and joined a group of her own age.

I didn't mean to imply that 11 year-olds couldn't or wouldn't use words like circumspect, but it was unlikely that Grace (my POV) would. She's not simple but she's not precocious enough. And she has a habit of using the wrong words - similar to a malapropism, but not quite (she calls her teacher a sl*t, for example, when a more appropriate perjorative would be pig/cow/b***h/etc).

I had a wide vocabulary at a young age, too so I understand your points. :)


You could throw it at a beta reader, even if you normally wouldn't at this stage.

I find comedy very hard to self-assess, and without beta readers to point out what's rubbish and what works I'd find it much harder going.

Comedy would turn my hair white if I tried to write it :eek:

Don't worry about getting it all wrong.

Worry about not thinking outside the box.

Thanks, I am hoping I'm pushing the odd envelope here and there :)

I've had a similar doubt about my own work in the past.

...

And really, there shouldn't be any difference in treatment between foreignness and youth.

I suppose a lot of it depends on whether you're writing in the first person or not though... if you are, then I can see your concern definitely. I don't think I would find the use of a word that a child wouldn't know that offputting provided it was in their own thinking. If they were actually talking to other people with terms they wouldn't understand it might be a different matter.

Both good points, thanks. Grace is in 3rd but there is a lot of internal dialogue. It's not a problem that has cropped up a lot, but I want to eliminate any inauthenticity. I'm more concerned about her thought process rather than, say, actual word use.

If you are worried about something then take the positive - that you'll be more careful and work harder at it.

I worry when I actually think I've done something well. There must be something wrong somewhere....

Calm-ish in Clapton.

Ha! Me too. I am feeling this is getting too easy and I don;t trust myself to get it right! And... Clapton? I pass that station most days on the way to Wood Street on the Chingford/Liverpool St Train :eek::).

Thanks for all the advice. And the offer of a read-though, Anyakimlin.

pH
 
Ha! Me too. I am feeling this is getting too easy and I don;t trust myself to get it right! And... Clapton? I pass that station most days on the way to Wood Street on the Chingford/Liverpool St Train :eek::).

The very same place - by the banks of the river Lea. I often take walks in Leyton/Walthamstow marshes to get away from the 'cabin' and get a smidgen of nature (at least what zone 2/3 London can give you :) ).

I was saying last week that I didn't know where the SF writers in London where - now I know that Chrons has a North East London division!
 
The very same place - by the banks of the river Lea. I often take walks in Leyton/Walthamstow marshes to get away from the 'cabin' and get a smidgen of nature (at least what zone 2/3 London can give you :) ).

I was saying last week that I didn't know where the SF writers in London where - now I know that Chrons has a North East London division!

I love the canal and the marshes!

Ha, small world! I live on the corner of Epping Forest (top of Forest Road near Waterworks Corner) so lots of my stories are based in those woods!

pH
 

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