Diversity in World Building

[The Storyteller]

So I'm doing some world building for my WIP, and once again I've come back to pondering the different nationalities/appearances/cultures/locations of the peoples of my world. And as I was pondering these things, I began to wonder how exactly we have (in the real world) different colour of hair/eyes/skin, different nose/eye/face shapes, different thicknesses of hair, amount of facial/body hair, etc. I did some research and got an idea of the basics, which is pretty much natural selection in relation to where they lived. For example, apparently the 'almond shaped eye' is from living in harsher weather conditions where the lid dipped down farther and was thicker to protect the eye.

At any rate, I am having a hard time reconciling real life to my world!


In this world, magic plays a big part in the way things work; weather, geography, the origination of people and animals, etc. Magic is a law stronger that of science.

I imagined that magic had 'created' humans in different locations at different points of time, and that different nationalities would have branched off from these core races (each which would be very different from one another). There would be differences in hair colour, eye colour, skin colour, ear shape, eye shape, face shape, body types, facial/body hair, thickness/coarseness of hair, and even differences in blood colour, teeth colour etc.

There are many different races, and I had hoped to have many of them living near enough that they can interact. But if the difference in appearance is based almost solely on where a nationality has lived for thousands of years and the conditions of that place, can it make sense to have two races that have very different skin/eye colour, hair type, face shape, etc. living in kingdoms beside each other? Or in the case of races that have migrated over the years, does it make sense for them to remain looking as they always have instead of slowly over time coming to look more like their neighbours (evolving to suit the new conditions)? Not to mention, many elements of these different appearances would offer no advantage to that race, and thus would not be something that would 'evolve' or develop over time.


As I said, magic does play a strong role, so on one hand I could say that magic entirely decides physical traits. But then where do genes come into play? Would each person look however regardless of their ancestry/parents?


Also, I don't want it to come off as magic just being the easy answer to everything that wouldn't make sense in our world. That seems careless and lazy. But having a single race which pretty much makes up the story (with the only other races being far removed and living in very different climates) seems boring, and isn't remotely what I envision.


So to what degree can I have magic affect their racial traits over the more scientific explanations? How closely can very different appearing races of people live from each other without it seeming implausible or silly? How far can I bend the rules of science in favour of magic without detracting from the story and taking away its believability?

Thanks for any input/advice/suggestions/thoughts/etc.! Sorry for a lengthy question... this has been eating away at my mind and I'm trying to sort my thoughts!

 

[The Storyteller]

Sorry that is so long, hopefully someone doesn't mind taking the time to read it all! =S

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Is it necessary that you have a kingdom filled with one type of people and another with a different type? Surely, if they can travel at all, they will have intermixed?

The evolution of different types (darker skin in the tropics, your eye thing assuming it's true, etc.) was very far back in our history. In our world, it was about the conditions of the location; if the magic in your world created the races at great distances from each other, then it wouldn't make sense to have two vastly different races living next to each other in the future. They don't seem likely to have all packed up together and moved. But if the magic created different races close to each other, you could still have predominantly intact bunches living near to each other.

I would think they would have traveled (individually) and some would have taken up residence in other places, mixing with other kingdoms, unless you have some reason that they wouldn't have done that. There would be intermixing of genes (assuming it's possible) and intermixing of neighborhoods by immigration.

But all in all, it's your world -- if you tell us why it's like that, then it's like that.

I do have to say that the idea of kingdoms side-by-side, each filled with a different race, makes me think of Oz.

 

[MatterSack]

Humans IRL are actually extremely homogenous from a genetic perspective, much more-so than most other species. Most of our differences are in external morphology (height, shape, colour, hair formation, facial features, etc); below the skin however we're all pretty much identical.

Generally species variation exists whenever populations are geographically separated. However it's usually a gradient. For example, those on the equator will usually be darker than those at high/low latitudes due to the increased sunlight and consequent melanin increase. Those in sunless places like Britain developed lighter skin (not the other way around) in order to balance UV protection (barely necessary) and absorption (dark-skinned people living in Britain may not receive enough UV light from the sun to synthesise Vitamin D, leading to medical problems involving bone formation and Calcium homeostasis).

Simply put; evolution tinkers with existing features only when necessary. Something does not change unless it lowers the reproductive potential of an individual (ranging from superficial ugliness to crippling deformation or premature death). An example would be hereditary Parkinson's disease, which remains within the population because it generally remains ineffectual until after an individual has already successfully reproduced.

Sometimes you get mutations. These can be detrimental (see above), benign (e.g., red hair), or even advantageous (red-wavelength photoreceptors).

Mould your races according to their environments.

• A mountainous people may be small with increased oxygen-carrying capacity (i.e., Gurkhas) as a result of thinner atmosphere.
• People in sun-baked locales may have dark, melanin-rich skin, with a tall, thin physique for increased heat radiation/disposal.
• People living in year-round snow will be short and stocky, with increased subcutaneous fat for insulation and narrowed eyes for protection against the elements (such as glare and blizzards). They may even have retained thicker body hair.
• Those in places with very little sunlight may have developed extremely pale skin to allow Vitamin D synthesis.

You could probably go overboard with combinations, or even massive adaptations not seen IRL.

• A tree-dwelling race may have more flexible limbs for grasping and climbing, better colour vision to allow differentiation between different fruits and berries, or even the remnants of a prehensile tail!
• Plain-dwellers may have exceptional long-distance running endurance and/or visual acuity (maybe even telescopic vision, like a raptor). Their culture may be heavily based around the stars and constellations, or the sun.
• Cave-dwellers may have exceptional night vision, and/or attuned senses of navigation, smell and hearing (possibly even a semblance of sonar).

Keep in mind with the above suggestions that night vision (rod-dependent) is almost always a trade-off for colour-perception and acuity (cone-dependent). An organism is very unlikely to have both. It's even possible that some race may even have developed a mutation that allows them to perceive additional colours (primates only developed green and red cones fairly recently when they became diurnal). For example:

• They could be capable of seeing infra-red, which warm-blooded (endothermic) creatures radiate like light-bulbs. Very handy at night-time or in caves.
• Or ultra-violet, a capability that our nocturnal ancestors once possessed, but which then evolved to detect blue wavelengths instead (better during the day-time).

I don't know what kind of magic you're planning on implementing, but as long as the adaptations make sense then you can't really go wrong. Just keep in mind the effects of selection, and keep your internal logic consistent.

 

[chrispenycate]

Well, it's always possible that the groups have drifted genetically sufficiently that crossbreeding could no longer occur, just as logically men and elves are not cross fertile. But if you've got magic, there's no reason for genetics to work like here, mixing characteristics. Perhaps you apply to a god for a particular race?

 

[Venusian Broon]

If you wanted to give a more science-y solution to having very distinct groups of humans right next to each other and you still want a genetics, then perhaps the magic that caused the big changes also causes changes on a cellular level, so that - erm...putting this politely - any cells from one person who has the magic of one source are identified as a pathogen by the body's immune system of a person from another 'magic' tribe. i.e fertilisation of the egg is extremely difficult, and if it does perhaps the mothers body rejects the fertilised egg.

Hence any cross-breeding pair of humans between two different magic 'tribes' could be more or less infertile. And having such a barrier there might then be a evolutionary drift over time that might widen any chance of cross breeding.

Of course if you took this idea further there may be other interesting ideas that might crop up: it might be almost impossible for cross-breeding, but perhaps very occasionally it does happen - what happens to those offspring? What if some magic sources result in much more 'compatible' matches - do these tribes have deeper bonds between them, socially? What about the plants and animals, are they impacted by the magic also and thus will there be a segregation there too? What about virus's and disease if magic alters cells, does the 'blue men' common cold virus cause some 'orrible near fatal disease in the 'red men' camp?

 

[tinkerdan]

Considering environmental factors into the evolution does make sense, but just as much there might be some consideration to origins if there were once a central race that diverged into many by splitting off either from similar characteristics and language differences(dialects) or social status.

Then after the split there might be considerations on survival within the various environments. Still with magic you can't just leave it off because it is much like technology and might alter the natural selection elements. Just as much as those that shun the magic or technology might be more prone to natural selection.

There could even be a race that use magic to help individuals survive when natural selection is against them and they might withhold that magic help from those who have an easier fit with natural selection which could create a kingdom of two seeming different races that are at odds with each other; where the environment favors people with less magic ability.

 

[The Storyteller]

Thanks for all the replies!


I should clarify that these different races wouldn't be extreme differences within two yards of each other with no cross-breeding. Some races will mix, and many characters are married to characters of a different race. The kingdoms will have some space between them but will still be close enough that they are able to trade with, travel to, communicate with other kingdoms. However, a kingdom may be made up of mostly one race while the next is made up of mostly another (with some mixed and mingled, but with a noticeable majority).


I'm thinking that magic will be largely responsible for the physical traits of the different races, but that these things will still reflect living conditions. For example, a tribe of one race with sparse facial hair migrates north to colder climates. Instead of dying out completely or evolving slowly over the course of thousands and thousands of years, and act of magic actually changes their physical traits almost instantaneously. Although they still have similarities to their old race, they have become something new, with physical traits to counter the new climate (thicker hair, more facial/body hair, etc.)

Other races will have abilities to cope on a more magic level and will not require physical changes. One of the strongly magic based tribes might also move north, but instead of changing on a physical level will change gradually on a magic level so that their bodies are able to naturally cope with the cold and elements (to the point that they walk barefoot on ice). However, because of these changes on a magic level, this race would in later years have difficulty coping in warmer climates, to the point where another change would be required (which they cannot control) or they would die out (if the move was permanent).

So I guess it is evolution in a sense, but on a magic basis. These changes by magic cannot be controlled or predicted by the races, and could be on a physical or magical level (or not at all, requiring normal natural selection to do the work). Because it is not always on a physical level, some races may move to drastically different climates while retaining their original appearance. Also, because the ability to survive conditions may be on a magical level, appearances may not always match scientifically with the location.

Does this sound workable? It would allow for races to move without necessarily changing on a physical level, and would allow different looking races to live in close proximity to each other. Genes would still be in affect, so children would look like their parents, and crosses in race would result in children who had traits of both.

Thanks again for all the feed back! It's much appreciated.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I guess my question would be why? Why use magic to explain evolution when nature already provides a perfect answer?

In my view the answer if you want to go down this road would be that magic may provide some different changes, things over than skin colour and body morphology. And I'm guessing here that the changes would be more than skin deep! (Pun intended).

So maybe there are certain types of magic which grew / evolved in certain parts of the world - such as dwarves being short and physically powerful so they can live underground, also have magic associated with rocks and steel. Elves being forest dwellers grew with bodies designed for fast running in dificult terrain - lithe and agile - and have magic associated with perhaps hiding and dealing with the natural world.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[MatterSack]

In fact, the only reason as to why RL humans are so homogenous is that an extinction event 'bottlenecked' us tens of thousands of years ago; probably the Lake Toba catastrophe.

 

[Laeraneth]

Why use magic to explain evolution when nature already provides a perfect answer?

Because people love dragons, and nature is unwilling to make hexapods beyond small flying insects

Humour aside (4 limbed dragons are every bit as impressive as 6 ) it opens a lot more doors and gives a lot more freedom. There are a lot of fantasy races that simply wouldn't happen without a wildly different ecosystem which probably means that humanoids we can identify with wouldn't be there. So you can either construct a vastly complicated reason why things evolved naturally AND allowed all the things you want in your world, or you can use 'external' sources to force the evolution.

Really, I suppose it just depends on the flavour of the world you're building. Mine SEEMS highly 'real' on the surface. Though there are obvious 'other powers' at work in places, people are people as we would know them, with similar racial distinctions and divisions based on latitude, elevation, environment, etc.

 

[psychotick]

Hi Laeraneth,

No I get that. My question is more basic. Why have to go to the trouble of bringing in a whole new method of evolution just because you have magic? If people in different lands all differ by slight amounts and readers are already comfortable with that, why do you have to not only explain it - but explain it in a whole new way? In short what does this add to the story?

My thought is that if magic is only going to be used as an alternative explanation for something that people already accept and for which they don't need another explanation - it's not going to add much at all.

That's why I went on to include elves and dwarves in my post. These are races that don't exist in our world - and which evolution fairly much assures us can't exist. Now here is where a magical sort of evolutionary force can reveal a whole new light on a world. Here is where this adds.

Otherwise it's like cooking eggs. You throw them in the pan and stuff them on the hot plate. The method hasn't really changed in centuries save for the source of heat. It's literally so simple. So why even if I had ray guns and an entire physics to back them up which could also coincidentally cook eggs would I bother to change the way I cook my eggs?

In my view if you're adding magic to a book, you want it to mean something to the reader. You want him to think - wow that's wonderful. You don't want to be using it to explain the mundane.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Mirannan]

MatterSack - Diversity is greater among humans than you might think, and often in subtle ways. For example, people of Far Eastern descent (Japanese and Chinese for example, also arguably Eskimos and Native Americans) are considerably worse at handling alcohol than Caucasians and also tend to have their gut lactase production shut down earlier - which means booze and milk tend to make such people ill.

And one little factoid, about evolution of better colour vision; actually, a proportion of humans varying (according to definition and the study referred to) between roughly 2-3% and 50% have four types of cone. The higher numbers refer to women, oddly enough; that is, women are more likely to have four cone types.

 

[Laeraneth]

To Psychotick: I see what you mean. I either misread or misunderstood. Hasty posting syndrome no doubt

In that case, I totally agree!

 

[The Storyteller]

Psychotick, I see what you are saying. Unfortunately, many of the changes I'm making are things that evolution/natural selection could never explain, because they would be impossible. Which was the big problem I was having; I envision my races with certain appearances/abilities living in certain conditions/climates, and these two often don't match from a scientific point of view. A lot of the things that are coming together could not happen through evolution, and thus there must either be an alternate explanation or I must change the decision I've made regarding certain races.


I feel that this method of 'evolution' makes perfect sense in this world, and demonstrates another way in which the incredibly powerful forces of magic can affect the world in direct contradiction to science. This is important for the story, because magic is the most powerful force in the world, and in many ways it shapes the world more than any natural process.


I should point out that I will not necessarily explain the method of evolution in the book. Because most of these changes would have happened centuries ago and will simply be accepted by the people in the book , it's not the kind of thing people would discuss; it wouldn't make much sense to have scenes where someone says "as you know, we have this eye shape because magic evolved us this way 4000 years ago". etc. Unless something is important for other reasons, it may go unmentioned. However, I like to be able to explain and understand it in my own mind, and to know how and why things happen so I can make decisions about the world in reflection of that knowledge.


Thanks for the input!

 

[TheDustyZebra]

So why even if I had ray guns and an entire physics to back them up which could also coincidentally cook eggs would I bother to change the way I cook my eggs?

In my view if you're adding magic to a book, you want it to mean something to the reader. You want him to think - wow that's wonderful. You don't want to be using it to explain the mundane.

Thank you! I think you've just solved something I was running up against the last time I looked at one of my WIPs.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

You have to remember that magic is easily abused as a cop-out. Even Tolkein rarely ever used actual magic within his works.


I'm not entirely sure of how well the premise of this whole idea would work, really...it would make things far too easy to just brush off. As a reader, I for one know that it irritates me to absolutely no end in sight when any questions I have come up never get answered, and I am a curious mind indeed. I am one of the ones who always asks why, and I don't think I'm alone. I want to know how things work, why this happened, what the motivation for this action is, that kind of thing. It feels far too frivolous and whimsical-I dare say pointless and time wasting-when reasons for actions and events are never given. Imagine it like being handed a rope tied in a series of complicated knots, and being asked to undo it. You manage to get it done, putting in vast amounts of mental energy, physical agility, and not a small dash of frustration, and when you ask why you had to do it, the one who gave you the task just leaves. It is similar to that for me, particularly if I don't find the story or characters to be engaging or interesting, or if I find the style to be horribly jagged and jarring, such as in Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn.

Now, that is usually more the case with movies than the written word, but unless you have a way of letting the reader know very well not only that magic is a powerful force, but why you decided to develop it that way, and a way for it to not be abused, then chances are that they may put it down after a short while. After all, why would Frodo and Sam risk all they went through if Gandalf could have simply had the ring flown to Mt. Doom and dropped in the magma?

 

[Laeraneth]

A lot of the things that are coming together could not happen through evolution, and thus there must either be an alternate explanation or I must change the decision I've made regarding certain races.

back in the dim, distant past of the various ideas I've had that sort of had planning done but little actual writing, I was quite keen on (and actually, still am) the idea that 'magic' (whatever form your magic takes) is just another form of energy.
For lack of a better description, lets just call it M-radiation ;P

A by-product of which is that anyone living near a source of M-radiation, or regularly exposed to it, will be more prone to mutation. Mostly bad, occasionally good, it's all just mutation in the DNA fundamentally... assuming they survive to procreate of course.

Would that fit into your world to allow you to 'force-evolve' some races and not others? Perhaps it's the USE of magic that causes the accelerated mutation/development/evolution?

Perhaps, as a pervasive force, some races evolve to take advantage of it more than others? Perhaps the M-radiation is 'flavoured' by the environment as well, thus changing some races in a different way to others depending on their environment?

Then, if you want to intermingle your various races, the rest is easy: people migrate and explore, just like in our world!

 

[The Storyteller]

You have to remember that magic is easily abused as a cop-out. Even Tolkein rarely ever used actual magic within his works.


I'm not entirely sure of how well the premise of this whole idea would work, really...it would make things far too easy to just brush off. As a reader, I for one know that it irritates me to absolutely no end in sight when any questions I have come up never get answered, and I am a curious mind indeed. I am one of the ones who always asks why, and I don't think I'm alone. I want to know how things work, why this happened, what the motivation for this action is, that kind of thing. It feels far too frivolous and whimsical-I dare say pointless and time wasting-when reasons for actions and events are never given. Imagine it like being handed a rope tied in a series of complicated knots, and being asked to undo it. You manage to get it done, putting in vast amounts of mental energy, physical agility, and not a small dash of frustration, and when you ask why you had to do it, the one who gave you the task just leaves. It is similar to that for me, particularly if I don't find the story or characters to be engaging or interesting, or if I find the style to be horribly jagged and jarring, such as in Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn.

Now, that is usually more the case with movies than the written word, but unless you have a way of letting the reader know very well not only that magic is a powerful force, but why you decided to develop it that way, and a way for it to not be abused, then chances are that they may put it down after a short while. After all, why would Frodo and Sam risk all they went through if Gandalf could have simply had the ring flown to Mt. Doom and dropped in the magma?

Hey Karn, I understand your concern. First of all, I should note that I am also one of the curious ones and I personally prefer to explain things, especially if they are things I feel my readers would be curious or interested about (or of course if they are important to the story!). It would certainly be made clear that magic is a huge force in the world and that it attributes to things like evolution; I meant more so that I wouldn't stop to point out every attribute of every race, saying this was natural evolution for this reason, and this happened by magic in this year, etc.


The fact that magic is a huge and powerful force is made very clear to the reader, and often comes into play. I should also note I certainly don't want to be a cop out! I am not using this idea of magic to explain away my problems, or to solve things that I don't want to do the 'hard way'.


To me, I think it is interesting and intriguing to think of a force in the world that can override all natural things, something unpredictable and inexplicable. Things with magic are never certain or predictable; you never know what it is going to change or be effected, or when, or how. Sometimes, it is devastating, sometimes it is strange and abstract, sometimes it is wonderful. This is a huge mechanism in the workings of the world. The world was formed by these random, inexplicable and unpredicted acts of raw magic. Animals and races of humans were formed in an instant, and horrible deformed creatures that still plague the world as well.

Most of this happened thousands of years ago, in the early age of men when the Ancient Powers moved across the earth, powers which shaped and changed things in massive ways. These powers have fallen into slumber, so things like the creation of new races of humans is something that has not happened for thousands of years.


I should also note that this set-up is not relatable to Gandalf using magic to solve their problems, as this force of magic is not something which can simply be harnessed and used. A character could not just decide to raise a mountain out of flat ground or create a new race of people. Some can use magic, but on a much, much smaller scale, and anything that needs to be accomplished is still difficult and demanding, and cannot be solved with a flick of the wrist.

I hope this makes the idea sound a little better to you, but of course we all have different opinions and this idea may not be your cup of tea no matter how it is presented. I hope that I can pull it off and that I can build on the page the very real world that already exists in my mind, but if when I start into beta-testing and editing I personally feel it doesn't work or get a lot of feedback of it being a bad idea, I can always try to change tracks then!


Thanks for the feedback!

 

[The Storyteller]

back in the dim, distant past of the various ideas I've had that sort of had planning done but little actual writing, I was quite keen on (and actually, still am) the idea that 'magic' (whatever form your magic takes) is just another form of energy.
For lack of a better description, lets just call it M-radiation ;P

A by-product of which is that anyone living near a source of M-radiation, or regularly exposed to it, will be more prone to mutation. Mostly bad, occasionally good, it's all just mutation in the DNA fundamentally... assuming they survive to procreate of course.

Would that fit into your world to allow you to 'force-evolve' some races and not others? Perhaps it's the USE of magic that causes the accelerated mutation/development/evolution?

Perhaps, as a pervasive force, some races evolve to take advantage of it more than others? Perhaps the M-radiation is 'flavoured' by the environment as well, thus changing some races in a different way to others depending on their environment?

Then, if you want to intermingle your various races, the rest is easy: people migrate and explore, just like in our world!

I do consider the magic in this world to be a force of energy, in a sense. One which is inexplicable, unpredictable, and immense. I don't personally consider the developments of the races as 'mutations', but I see what you are getting at. I think that what you are saying might play into what happens (certain races are more connected to magic/live in places where it is very strong, and these tend to be the ones with more 'magical' or unnatural qualities), but a race's use of magic probably wouldn't cause changes or mutations in that race. (Though it is an interesting idea!) Also, I don't want magic to be too 'sciencey'. The fact that it often doesn't make sense and can act in contradictory ways is important, so there may not be a set way in which things happen or a single explanation which covers all changes in races.


Thanks for the idea and the feedback!