Self publishing and self promotion

tinkerdan

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A recent poster here asked about publicity for their self published work. Unfortunately that seemed to be the extent of their interested in the forum for the moment.

Since one thing I personally have confronted is this road block in self publishing i think it's a great question to ask.

And if anyone has some answers that would be even better.

I for one have done a lot on the web- twitter, tumblr, facebook, and my own personal website and a blog.

I have not yet tried advertising on the web and would be interested in knowing of good sites that might have ad space available and also an audience that would appreciate the type of writing.

I've heard that conventions are great places to meet potential readers and get some visibility but have not done this and it might be interesting if anyone has some experiences to relate on that.

I've done some limited advertisement in book convention cataloges that were to be distributed throughout one year at various events. And of course there are magazines such as Analog -I was surprised to find three month coverage in a fair slot for around 1000 dollars US. Neither of those has yeilded any visible result.

Most effective measurable thing I've done is book givaways and then- when they can correspond- I have evidence that if I do a book review of a popular or at least new book I can see a jump in my own givaway (if I'm doing the give away at that time.) All of this is helping to build a presence and building-that-is part of the self promotion that is necessary to selling self published books.

Another issue that was raised in another area was having a forum for self publishing for self published authors to compare experiences and help each other understand the process which is also a great Idea but could just as easily be handled here with all other publishing questions; so if anyone has something to share that would be great.
 
I suppose the question is what is the most effective ways for a self-publisher to market his book. I have to first say I will be self-publishing my first book next month, and have no prior experience with this. With that said, as I'm plotting my course for marketing my book, I'm finding the non-traditional route may be the most effective route.

If oyu are a self-publisher and you don't have a large supply of money, you can't pay your way into success. You can't advertise through traditional outlets and expect to see a rise in sales everytime you pay money to advertise.

I'm finding the surest way to become a successful self-publisher is by truly connecting with people. By making yourself apart of the community. People buy books from certain traditional publishers because they trust that brandname, people know this publisher makes quality stuff. But when you're a self-publisher you have no name to back you up, all you have is your name. And you must gain the trust of the people. People get to know a business on purely a business level, and whether they sell good books and fulfill their end of the business transaction. But people get to know a self-publisher on purely a personal level first, and then that determines whether or not they'll buy your book.

People know you're not a business, so just be yourself and your love for books will spark their interest in your books.
 
Yes that makes sense but the question after that is where do you do this just being yourself that will have some impact that you can see or be able to possibly graph.

It's the same as any paid advertising- you have to know where to put your money and effort for the best results.

So far from my experience the only visible results comes from a combination of offering free books and being visible doing reviews.

As soon as the free books stop the visibility no longer works.

So the question again comes down to specifics. What have other people found to be successful places to put the time and money in their self promotion.

Or maybe no one else has seen any more success than I.
 
Hi,

Having been at this for four years now I can honestly say my answer is that I don't know. However for me, having given up on most if not all forms of promotion, the best approach is to write more books. It seems to work as each new book out boosts sales of other books.

As for the rest it hasn't been a great success. I did do a freebie once. Gave away something like two thousand copies of a book and got back nothing. Not a single review and not a boost in sales of anything else. But reading some of other people's experiences I may have been lucky in that. The only social media I do is my blog, and while some of my posts are about my next book out, most are completely off topic. At some point I just decide I'd write what I felt like writing and bugger the rest.

I've never tried a paid add, some people seem to swear by them. I did sign up for a free one on a start up group, but if they ran the add I haven't seen any sign of a boost in the sales of that book.

My thought over all is that I am a writer. That's what I do. I publish second because I do want to get my work out there and have others see it. (A few sales aren't unwelcome either.) But actually marketing etc is taking me away from what I love doing.

If you're really interested in this I'd suggest heading over to the Writers Cafe on Kindle Boards. They have literally hundreds of threads on marketing, and some of their number seem to completely live for this stuff. For me I'm just happy to write.

Cheers, Greg.
 
Psychotick, I've sort of come to the same conclusion.

My problem (in this regard) is that I'm a one-track mind sort of chap. That's great in some regards (I tend to return beta-reading bits and pieces quite quickly because I can't stand having them waiting to be done), but means I can only really do marketing or writing. And, in my eyes, writing always matters more, so I end up doing relatively little marketing.

There's also the genuine advantages to writing more, namely that if someone likes book 1 but you've not written book 2 they can't buy it. The more you write, the more books someone can buy if they like your stuff.
 
I'm in perfect agreement with writing more and getting more out there.

In fact that is probably why it's preferable to publish shorts in publications when you can because it creates a credible exposure.

The type of writers here so far seem to be those that would fall well into the traditional model of publishing because you don't have as much pressure to get involved in the advertising end- though being motivated to self promote is a plus in both venue.

One factor I see in some other self publishers I've interfaced with are that many of them have as many as a dozen or more publication out so the notion of getting exposure by numbers might have merit.

It does make sense that if you set out to write a trilogy that the second book might stir interest in the first and the third might be the breaking point because a lot of people do like to read it all at once.

So so far so good I would like to hear more from other self published authors as to their experience even if it's to say Yeah that's what I Do or even -what he said.

The reality of experience might be 180 degrees from what you pick up in places like the writers cafe.
 
I'm wary of paid promotions because a) a number of sites I've heard other self-publishers talk about may do well for one, but not for another, with no particular pattern; and b) you really need to have a fair number of positive reviews on the site you're directing them to if you hope to have buy the book when they get there.

If I was spending time on promotion, it'd first go on contacting reviewers. I'd certainly do so before I think of paid advertising.

Free books have dwindled in usefulness as the market's been overrun by them. I keep many of my shorts free, and one of my novels, but the downloads have steadily declined. Whereas a year ago I'd have seen usually a hundred downloads a week, now I'll be lucky to get ten. Sales, while still sparse, have remained more consistent.

Like others, I focus my time on getting more stuff out there. While I'm still waiting to see much of a boost in discoverability (with 40 titles out, 12 of them novels), having multiple books available could show potential readers there's more stuff immediately available if they do like what they read, and it could keep up the momentum rather than have them forget about you by the time your next book comes out. (That's what I try convincing myself, anyway.)
 
I'm not a self-publisher, and I don't plan to at this stage, but I did at one point and did some research on this. My thoughts, for what they're worth:

There's no point having loads of books out there if people can't find them. I'm sorry, but it's such a swamp and the only way to get to a book is either to know it's out there, or to be directed to it. Even if there are 40 titles available, and they'll boost sales of each other, it's 40 titles amongst millions.

I think there is still a quality-issue at work. Frankly, until I'm convinced that the work is good I absolutely won't be interested in seeking it out. I'm not saying this about anyone here - although I've only read Thad's, but it blew me away - but, in general, there are self-pubbed writers everywhere - through my Twitter feed, through facebook, through Absolute Write - telling me their work is great and of the ones I have picked up very, very few lived up to the promise. (Well, one did, and again that was Thaddeus's comedy. I haven't read Altormis yet, though I plan to.)

What I think I'm trying to say is that unless you convince me your books are good, well edited, not full of errors and typos and pov switches and all the things that make me grit my teeth, I won't seek them out. I will for someone on the Chrons - I read Scarfy's space operas a while ago - but not if I was out there in the general populance.

For my mind a couple of things swing it from me going "another self-publisher, don't have the time when both Joe Abercrombie and Chris Beckett have a new book out" to "let's see then" are:

Reviews. Ones that I can trust, not five stars from Aunt Nellie on Goodreads. I know these are hard to get but, for instance, one thing I was going to do if I self-pubbed was ask the guys on here with active blog sites/who do reviews if they'd have a read for me? I know the Chrons is small ish, but once a review is there is can be tweeted as a link, and it has an independence about it that Good Reads doesn't.

Interviews. I know Thaddeus and I have talked about this, but interviews are interesting. We all want to know what makes a writer tick, and it's nice and personal. Again, some of the active bloggers are always looking for info to get out there.

Freebies. I picked Scarfy's up because it was on offer - I then paid for the second. I doubt if I'd have paid full whack for the first.

I wonder - you have a vehicle here to get together, not for promotion on the Chrons, but perhaps to do blog tours of each other, maybe interview each other, read and honestly review. Why not see if it's possible to get a group together who'll support each other from the Chrons?

These are all just thoughts and i hope I haven't come across as insulting or dismissive in any way, as it wasn't my intention. As I say, I had thought very seriously about the self-pub route, so I'm not anti it at all, although in the end I decided to hang in for the ride and have a go at the Trad route. If it fails, I'd definitely look at self-pubbing in the future.
 
Springs, when I do do marketing (not often), I do ask for reviews. One issue for self-published chaps is that some sites/individuals just don't do them for the self-published. I can appreciate the perspective (as some self-published books can be awful) but it doesn't help.

On freebies, I forgot to mention that I'm going to release a free version of Kingdom Asunder (first part of a trilogy), specifically ripping the idea off from Stephen Sweeney (I think that's Scarfy), who did it for Battle of the Solar System.

Sadly, it's a good point you raise about many books still being possible to go under the radar. That's one of the reasons I decided to go for a few of Gary's anthologies, so that (as well as making a little money) they'll hopefully act as little advertisements for my other stuff.
 
I agree that one large concern is that a self-published book goes into a stack that has a half life of a day. Within the first week the book is buried quickly.

I disagree with the notion that being well written will make a difference. And don't get me wrong-it will once the book is noticed- unfortunately the well written part will not necessarily be how it gets noticed. Maybe if the right person picks it up on day one or two and reads it and says Wow and then starts telling other people then the written well will work. Again unfortunately there is as much chance of that as there is of getting hit by a van while you are talking a walk.

Reviews are okay but again if you sent them a copy of the book and they squeezed you in ; it deadens the impact of the review. I did that with the first book and it was quite nice the reviews were favorable and then after giving a few thousand copies away I had two other unsolicited (unless free can be seen as soliciting) reviews that were short and sweet. One with high marks and one with so so because they disagreed with the ending.

Honestly at this point I've noticed that a poorly written book that can create controversy because it has an unusual number of 5 star reviews can look more successful than many well written self-published books I've enjoyed.(that not to mention the ones that are successful and not well written or edited.)

Clearly the market is fickle.

I suspect from what I've heard from many of my favorite traditional authors that the reality of traditional publishing is just as fickle and many of them have found that they've had to work on self promotion to keep sales consistent.

So it's difficult to say at this point if we have anyone who considers their success to be even marginally good. Is there anyone else out there who has other experiences to offer in the realm of marketing and promotion.
 
Tinkerdan raised the issue about quality, how it's no point in having 40 titles if they're not good (paraphrasing). That gets to a whole return business issue. Even if you do paid advertising and network with readers/writers alike, and you have an increase in sales, it means nothing if the book is great. It's harder for indie books do sell because there isn't a company or industry reviewers telling people your book is great (whether it is or isn't). So you not only have to make the people feel your book is good, but it must also be good.

To track your progress in sales alone as an indie writer is a limited view, because your book's success depends on what the people that read your book say about it.
 
As for the quality question, all kinds of pap makes loads of money. There's a market for poorly written fiction. It's kinda sad, but it's true. If you happen to like that kind of thing and can write it, you can make some money. And this isn't limited to self-publishing of course. Not that writers should shoot for writing crap but it clearly is a thing.
 
As for the quality question, all kinds of pap makes loads of money. There's a market for poorly written fiction. It's kinda sad, but it's true. If you happen to like that kind of thing and can write it, you can make some money. And this isn't limited to self-publishing of course. Not that writers should shoot for writing crap but it clearly is a thing.

Wow. I just ran into some of the crap you're talking about. You're right, somebody's buying this stuff, whether it's indie or reputably published.

But i still think word of mouth's the most powerful way to market your material. And making your material well-written is what builds your name, and helps reach different kinds of readers.
 
Hi,

First just to point out. I don't promote not because it goes against my principles or because it leaves a bad taste in my throat (which it sort of does), or for any other high minded reason. I don't do it because I'm basically apathetic and I simply don't like it.

Second a well written book does have a better chance than a badly written one. I think that cannot be overlooked. Having said that yes some poorly written stuff does make it - I don't know why. But my thought is that there is a standard of poor which most readers won't go below, but if a book passes that minimum standard it's in with a shot.

And third as to success, you've got to measure your success according to what you want. My own view is that to simply complete and publish a book is a pretty big success. To sell a few copies is a cherry on the top.

Lastly, one of the things that I learned last year which completely shocked me was that the typical trade published author wasn't making a lot of money from his writing. I think it was 5 to 10 grand US. Now I may not be a big name author, and I may be too damned lazy and disinterested and lets not forget embarrassed to promote my work - but I do beat that. And to give you some idea of sales, my goal this year is to sell (no giveaways) 10,000 books.

So in conclusion it is a meat market out there and there are mountains of utter crud, but if you write a good book, cover it well, do a good blurb etc, I believe you can actually sell reasonably simply by writing more books.

Cheers, Greg.
 
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I have read some of the published work that alleges to sell well.

I'm confused. But that's all I'll say about it.

It might do well for us to know how one defines a good book as opposed to writing well.

Either way I should assume I will be sitting well soon.

So I think it's safe to say putting more than a dozen books out there might be adequate to the task of getting modest returns.

I for one do not have to rely on sales and write to enjoy writing and try to do the best work that I can coming close to writing well though I'm confused about that being good enough because there may be a difference.

There must be some other self published authors with some experience though and I'd love to hear from them.
 
There must be some other self published authors with some experience though and I'd love to hear from them.


If nothing else we can put out ideas to the test and report back with info.


I also think it helps if self-publishers cross-promote and network more, because we are not in competition, and readers lthat love indie work love finding more indie work through trusted sources.
 
If nothing else we can put out ideas to the test and report back with info.


I also think it helps if self-publishers cross-promote and network more, because we are not in competition, and readers lthat love indie work love finding more indie work through trusted sources.

That's what I was crudely suggesting - can't those self pubbing on the chrons join together and help each other?
 
I believe if we establish ourselves as writers independently, we can then come together and cross-promote through different forums/sites. But the tendency of indie writers is to try and be reclusive. But being indie does not mean being reclusive. You can pool your resources, network, and readers together with other indie writers and still be indie.

It's like forming a union. One or two people refusing to work under an specific industry's demands means nothing. But when there's many people coming together in an organized manner, the industry has to respect those people and recognize they can't take advantage of the people working for them, otherwise, those people will gladly find a way to survive on their own.

An organized group of indie writers helps both indie and traditional writers.
 
I've done a few bits: Google front page ads, investigated an ad in SFX, Facebook, forums etc.

If I may be blunt: no-one gives a sh*t. :cool:

There's so much out there, tat and treasure, that getting spotted is the trick and it's getting more difficult as every scribbler with a manuscript is shouting louder, forming groups and getting militant (British version: rather reserved but very, very peeved, don't you know? :D )

Publishers, big or small, are not necessarily arbiters of quality. They're running a business. So to play the game, you have to show them that you can make them money. It may be dressed up as 'literary worth' or 'next big thing', but the bottom line is accountancy.

And the general public seems to have the attention span of a gnat, to boot.

In some ways, I'm lucky. My scribblings have minimal mainstream appeal. Publishers would bin me, not over quality but over potential market share (lack of it, that is). I accept that and thus I have no real beef (when I have my grown-up trousers on, that is) with how it all works.

Promotion? I'm firmly in the 'keep writing' movement. People like my work. I enjoy writing. If someone wants to take my work further, I'm happy to chat. If nothing happens, I'll leave a legacy of strange buried in the deposit libraries of the UK. :eek:
 
I suppose we could create a blog or web page full of indie SFF authors who don't have a visible presence- we just have to figure out how to give it a presence of its own.
 

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