s apostrophe.

Coragem

Coragem

Believer in flawed heroes
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
556
Location
I started writing a door stopping wedge of a sci-f
Hello:

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere. I did try and find a relevant thread.

Anyway, the possessive for names or words ending in "s" is s'. That's how I was taught here in the UK anyway. So we get Russ', James', etc. So why am I regularly seeing (in books published by UK and US publishers) Russ's, James's?

Is s's the publishers' preference (maybe to avoid confusion with speech marks) and even if it hurts, is that what I should be doing?

Coragem.
 
Traditionally in British English you would (almost) always get the extra "s", so Russ's, James's (as in St James's Palace: this is the official spelling). You would leave the "s" off, I believe, if the name was Greek (? or Latin?) e.g. Jesus', Xerxes'. Now it seems to have become more optional. I prefer the extra "s" because that's how you speak it (you would pronounce "Russes"). Having said that, sometimes recently I've heard people leave off the pronounced "es", which sounds silly and I assume is because more people are leaving it off when writing.
 
I stopped leaving it off with Empress, cos it was just so messy looking Empress's, and having done that to keep continuity I leave it off all the time. It drives Mouse mad, though. I think it also helps my hideous possessive apostrophe habit because it stands out more, somehow, when editing.
 
Here in the US, the traditional practice is to use apostrophe S for a singular noun and just the apostrophe for a plural noun that ends in S. So it would be James's turn or all the other players' turns. This gets ugly when you get to words that can be interpreted as singular or plural, like band or team or -- the name of the company where I work is plural, but a company is not treated as such, usually. Still I'm asked to use the plural possessive treatment, because the exec team finds it less offensive to their eyes. My solution is to always try to rewrite a phrase that includes our name with a possessive apostrophe to not include one.

Edit - I go out of my way not to name my characters with names ending in S just for this reason, but it still happens from time to time.
 
Yep, drives me up the wall. In the collab, amw has a character called James. Every time she does "James'" I go round when she's not looking and change it to "James's." :D
 
When I was learning grammar and spelling, I learned s apostrophe. Of course what I always knew as right for over half a century has frequently turned out to have always been wrong , especially since someone changed it four years ago to make it easier or not offend someone. We, as an English speaking culture, do no speak or write anything close to the same language that any of us were taught when I was a child.


Someone please make up my mind.
 
Last edited:
what drives me into an intercranial hematoma when editing is that sloppy use of the apostrophe then s when there is no case of possession and there is no use of a place holder (i.e. for is).. they just use apostrophe s instead of just an s because...( grr ... hematoma time) "it looks more bigger" - direct quote...
 
Strunk and White's The Elements of Style says,

Form the possessive singular of nouns by adding 's.
Follow this rule whatever the final consonant. Thus write,
.....Charles's friend
.....Burns's poems
.....the witch's malice
Click to expand...

This rule is on page one, as a matter of fact.

The book goes on to say,

Exceptions are the possessives of ancient proper names in -es and -is, the possessive of Jesus', and such forms as conscience' sake, for righteousness' sake. But such forms as Moses' Laws and Isis' temple are commonly replaced by
.....the law of Moses,
.....the temple of Isis.
Click to expand...

Both William Strunk and E. B. White were American, and The Elements of Style was considered pretty much the Bible on style 60 years ago (and more). Some people still think it's an essential book for writers -- though that doesn't mean that we need to follow it slavishly, of course. It is rather old-fashioned in regards to the -'s, and a lot of modern style guides say that you should write Charles' when TEOS says Charles's.

But for myself, I am old-fashioned, too, and I'll keep on with that final s, leaving copy-editors to change it if and when they feel they have to.
 
I prefer James's. James' would catch me out because it wouldn't match my mental narrative, thus pulling me from the story (same applies to Empress's. Sorry, Springs). I'm guessing though that someone will have a problem with it whichever way you choose.
 
Teresa Edgerton said:
Strunk and White's The Elements of Style says,



This rule is on page one, as a matter of fact.

The book goes on to say,



Both William Strunk and E. B. White were American, and The Elements of Style was considered pretty much the Bible on style 60 years ago (and more). Some people still think it's an essential book for writers -- though that doesn't mean that we need to follow it slavishly, of course. It is rather old-fashioned in regards to the -'s, and a lot of modern style guides say that you should write Charles' when TEOS says Charles's.

But for myself, I am old-fashioned, too, and I'll keep on with that final s, leaving copy-editors to change it if and when they feel they have to.
Click to expand...

I keep the Elements of Style on my desk, but for the past couple of years, my go to reference has been Right, Wrong and Risky, which helps weed through gray areas like this. Also, it's witty and fun to read, which is always a plus in a reference book.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/669801.Right_Wrong_and_Risky
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
The Judge Apostrophes are important! Grammar & Spelling 6
Brian G Turner Why do UK publishers use apostrophes instead of speech marks? Publishing 64
Jo Zebedee A tiny little apostrophe question Grammar & Spelling 50
Brian G Turner Noun plurals and apostrophes Grammar & Spelling 25
Phoenixthewriter The Quote, the Apostrophe, and the 'S' Writing Discussion 13

Similar threads


Back
Top