3.16: The Walking Dead - Welcome to the Tombs

ctg

weaver of the unseen
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Rick and the group have to seriously consider if the prison is worth defending as The Governor's impending attack looms over their heads.

"The Tombs" (as called by T-Dog) are a portion of The Prison that is infested by walkers, as mentioned by Glenn in "Home." What do you think is going to happen?

And before the final airs, how do you see the world now?
 
Last episode of the season. I'm both excited and sad at the same time, this is a great show, but now we have to wait for season 4. I always hate waiting for the new seasons.
 
Well, that sure didn't provide the resolution I was looking for.

I was about to say that I was shocked that no one died, and somehow completely overlooked poor Milton and Andrea, whose end did prove quite an emotional affair. I was wanting her killed off all season, but they brought her back around for a fitting send off.

The Governor finally lost it. How Martinez and the other bloke didn't just shoot him dead there and then, I have no idea. I was certain Rick, Darryl, Michonne, and the ragtag group from Woodbury were going to return to the prison to find everyone dead. Then when they didn't, I was waiting for the Gov to snipe someone from the woods. Lot of work to do on that prison, now, though, to get it back up and running, and secure.

I'm dismayed at having to wait the better part of the year to find to what happens next. I think this show is easily the best television series in recent years.
 
Oh my days that was touching. So heart-breaking. I could had taken Milton but Andrea as well. She was always one of my favourites and she should had inherited Dale's hat. But she didn't. And I would for the record say that I was waiting Tyreese to rescue her, but noooo.... f-word.

I want to say it but I don't want to as I have too much respect on Kirkman. The characters he always drops are the one you always want to live. And losing characters like Milton and Andrea hurt to core of the stories the original comics followed, but by now, you cannot go by them.

The Governor should had been killed and Rick was supposed to be on run, but it's opposite and it makes the next season all so much tastier, as it's completely untouched storyland.

So what's going to happen there?
 
Andrea annoyed me all this season, and the one episode I actually liked her she gets killed off...Typical. I was actually watching through my fingers during the Andrea/Milton scenes. I love how nobody is ever safe from being killed off in this show, brings a little unpredictability to TV, which these days is quite rare imo.

The Governor vs Prison thing I found a bit, well, odd. Expected, of course, but still odd. Opening fire on his own people was unexpected and amazingly unhinged, which I did like. I just kept thinking when they were shooting all the Walkers - what a waste of precious ammo! (I think that a lot during TWD to be fair). I was convinced that Rick and co had just fled the prison and would then take over the empty Woodbury, turning the tides on the stranded Governor. The return to the prison also baffled me - Woodbury would be better secured now the prison's been part destroyed and locking the Governor out of his own home would be particularly sinister.

Carl shooting an innocent man was another good development - Rick's absentee parentism and general bad role modelling coming to the fore. Though I guess if you're a kid in a zombie apocalypse it's better to be a crazy one than a wimp.

I have really got into this show again this season and it's gutting to have to wait 6 months for more :( At least Game of Thrones fills the Sunday night hole for a little while.
 
No-one died, Cul? The body count looked to be near thirty!

I was sorry to see Milton linger, rather than go quickly, and despite wanting Andrea gone for most of the series, I'm glad that she got to leave on her own terms (though I'm very surprised she didn't take a toe off with those pliers) - this Andrea is a far cry from the Andrea who wanted to stay with the explosive Dr. Jenner back in Atlanta. I'm not going to miss her.

After all this time, it turns out that the Woodbury militia are all bark and no bite. Whilst their assault on the prison was impressive, when it came to the crunch they proved how amateur they were, in direct contrast to the incredible discipline Rick's group has shown over the series.

I'm disappointed that neither Glen nor Maggie bit it in the fight. They didn't even get nicked by a bullet!

What the hell, Carl? His logic isn't crazy, given the world he lives in, but damn. I get that he has to toughen up, but he seems too eager, and Rick isn't helping at all. Still, we should have seen it coming the moment he shot Morgan a few episodes back. Rick needs to reclaim his hat, because it is doing awful things to that kid's brain.

On the subject of toughening up, Beth has managed it without going to the lengths Carl has gone to - she wanted to escape everything at the farm, but now she's poking a crowbar through skulls like a pro.

Dammit, Gov... not entirely surprising, but completely unexpected. He's really left reality behind now, and it will be interesting to see what happens when he returns.

Glad to see that Tyreese has finally joined Rick's group, but I did not expect it to happen this way. Whilst I understand what Rick is doing, bringing the people from Woodbury to the prison (I guess his conversation with Morgan triggered something), I don't think it's a good decision at all. They may have the space in the prison, and better security than Woodbury when the damage is repaired (after all, the prison is built to allow few people to guard many), but the problems of such a large group are going to be many - how can the group provide for so many, and how is the decision process going to change?

Next series, we'll probably see Tyreese and Sasha (was that her name?), as well as Karen (again, name? The one who managed to survive the Governor), step up to positions within the core group.

---

So, how did I do with my predictions?

Badly. :p

I got Milton kind of right, Andrea mostly right (one of my predictions was that she'd suffer a fatal wound and make it back to the group before she dies), and everything else completely wrong.

Although I did say, in an earlier episode thread, that the Governor might end up running away to lick his wounds, then return in a later series... before I changed my mind to him being killed off.

---

EDIT: I didn't give my views on the episode itself!

I actually rather liked it. As much fun as the explosive openers and finales are, it's nice to have a finale that isn't there to entertain through shock and awe. This finale provided an end to the Woodbury story, yet didn't remove the Big Bad or the location - we'll be able to hit the ground running at the start of the next series, rather than see the group running over ground as they scramble to set up the series within the shortest time possible.

A thought on having the bigger group, and with Scott Gimple taking over: might we possibly start seeing more episodes that focus on only a couple of characters? We might start to learn the backgrounds and history of some of the core characters, explaining how they've come to be who they are in the current world, as well as get to know some of the new minor additions.

If we get even just ten episodes like Clear, then the next series will be an incredible story-telling experience.
 
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No-one died, Cul? The body count looked to be near thirty!

I meant no one in Rick's group, really. I was certain one of their number was going to die, but then this season has already been quite brutal on them so they probably deserved a break.
 
Andrea annoyed me all this season, and the one episode I actually liked her she gets killed off...Typical. I was actually watching through my fingers during the Andrea/Milton scenes. I love how nobody is ever safe from being killed off in this show, brings a little unpredictability to TV, which these days is quite rare imo.

I was crying at the end. I couldn't watch it because when I realised she was a goner I just couldn't keep it in me. Andrea was misunderstood "blond" who tried to do good till the end.

The Governor vs Prison thing I found a bit, well, odd. Expected, of course, but still odd. Opening fire on his own people was unexpected and amazingly unhinged, which I did like. I just kept thinking when they were shooting all the Walkers - what a waste of precious ammo!

If you look closely the room in Woodbury, where Governor went to interrogate Tyreese and co. after his return and you'll see a reloading press straight in the middle of the table. So I don't think it's that big problem. You can reload the shells as long as people keep collecting them.

How that works in the zombieland, I don't know. Sorry.

Carl shooting an innocent man was another good development - Rick's absentee parentism and general bad role modelling coming to the fore. Though I guess if you're a kid in a zombie apocalypse it's better to be a crazy one than a wimp.

Carl is not crazy. He sees things differently. The guy who came through the woods were an enemy combatant to him and hence he'd to be put down.
 
I'm disappointed that neither Glen nor Maggie bit it in the fight. They didn't even get nicked by a bullet!

Hollywood bullets. You can hide behind something and it blocks shots. And to be honest I'm quite surprised that Merle bullet didn't go through the ******* he shot in the last episode. But if you take out that bit of realism you'll end up with something that was really magnificent.

[]Glad to see that Tyreese has finally joined Rick's group, but I did not expect it to happen this way. Whilst I understand what Rick is doing, bringing the people from Woodbury to the prison (I guess his conversation with Morgan triggered something), I don't think it's a good decision at all.

They may have the space in the prison, and better security than Woodbury when the damage is repaired (after all, the prison is built to allow few people to guard many), but the problems of such a large group are going to be many - how can the group provide for so many, and how is the decision process going to change?[/quote]

A lot of questions, but lets start from the prison. With the walls they saw in the Woodbury, don't you think it's viable to fortify the entrance and make room for them to grow some crops? Maybe even making a rabbit farm or getting couple of chicken's (taken ofcourse that they've survived the zombies).

In order to survive they have start doing something because they cannot keep raiding the land forever. They have to start surviving in the world, where people has gone nuts and realised that they're not going to end in a prison anymore. But they also have to accept that zombies aren't going to go anywhere any time soon. So it's hard choices but making the right ones, they can easily grow enough of stuff to keep them all happy. And as strange as it seems I haven't seen them planting anything on the roof, even though you would believe that's the safest place to grow anything.

If you company hunting patrols to that, you have a community that can survive even the hardest times. And in the comic canon that is what Andrea tells to Rick.

What do you think?
 
I know what you meant, Cul. Just messing. ;)

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Regarding the new community at the prison, whilst it's totally possible for them to make a life for themselves, we mustn't forget that the Governor cut down every able-bodied fighter. The people we saw get off the bus, aside from Tyreese and Sasha, are old, infirm, or underage. Rick and co. are going to be stretched mighty thin if something bad comes a-calling.
 
I was pretty disappointed with the battle at the Prison. It was built up to be an epic confrontation and then...Maggie and Glen fire a few shots after some firecrackers are let off and everyone runs away.

And I hate to say it but having only Andrea die (from Rick's group) was a bit of a let down. I spent the first half of the episode freaking out about who was going to die and then...no one did.

The Milton/Andrea thing was very emotional but apart from that I didn't really think the episode was all that great.
 
Regarding the new community at the prison, whilst it's totally possible for them to make a life for themselves, we mustn't forget that the Governor cut down every able-bodied fighter. The people we saw get off the bus, aside from Tyreese and Sasha, are old, infirm, or underage. Rick and co. are going to be stretched mighty thin if something bad comes a-calling.

My thoughts exactly. Those that have been brought in to the prison will be more hindrance than help. Essentially, they are little more than mouths that now have to be fed. Sure, the kids will grow up and become useful but the elderly are dead weight.
 
I actually liked the season finale. It was a bit cr*p how Glenn and Maggie didn't seem to be able to hit anyone, but other than that it was a strong episode, that illustrated how the approach taken in the comics (to fight it out in the open) wasn't really going to work with people armed with 0.5 calibre machine guns and grenade launchers.

I liked as well how they have now taken a different approach, with staying at the prison with the civilians from Woodbury, emphasising hope rather than despair. I liked also the contrasting view of Carl who has adopted the kill or be killed philosophy of the Governor.

Given that this Andrea wasn't the one from the comics happy to see her killed off as well.
 
My thoughts exactly. Those that have been brought in to the prison will be more hindrance than help. Essentially, they are little more than mouths that now have to be fed. Sure, the kids will grow up and become useful but the elderly are dead weight.

The kids won't take that long to be useful. From 8 or so they will be able to help with farming (the long term future surely of all that enclosed land), even if they cannot yet take on a walker.
 
Tbh I was a little disappointed. For a series that has been quite realistic in it's potrayl of characters, there was quite a lot in this episode that didn't add up.

Firstly, would the Governor really shoot down half of his 'troops'? He's spent months building a community, would he seriously end that because of a failed attempt on the prison? Secondly the men he didn't kill should surely have gunned him down; the Governor seemed to be shooting everyone, so if I had had a gun I would have shot him before he tried shooting me.

Also it's interesting to see the group choosing the confines of a prison over the normality of a town; they are prioritising surviving over living. And as for the kid; considering the comeback they've had from letting enemies live, it's hardly surprising to see him making sure that it won't happen again.

It was very surprising to see the group taking on board the townsfolk of the Governor. Considering how they've actively rejected most other people's attempts to join them (remember the hiker they drove away from a couple of episodes ago?), burdening themselves seems an odd decision to make. Now whether this is down to Rick leaving it to a group vote, but I'm thinking that this is Rick teaching his son a bit of humanity; you could see how confused he was that they were inviting 'enemies' into the group. Quite possibly the mother or father of the boy his son murdered (is that too strong a word?) may be in that group...
 
Carl is a Governor in the making. Kill or be killed. If the writers of this series have any balls they could set up a great story line for Rick and Carl over the next few seasons where Rick slowly begins to realise that he has a possible monster growing up in his midst and that he needs to deal with it. Massive possibilities there, but it would take brave writing.

Overall I loved this series and cannot wait for next October.
 
paranoid marvin;1706292 It was very surprising to see the group taking on board the townsfolk of the Governor. Considering how they've actively rejected most other people's attempts to join them (remember the hiker they drove away from a couple of episodes ago?) said:
It was always Rick driving newcomers out of the group and protecting the unit. It is Rick's return to sanity that has seen him allow the newcomers into the prison. I know he has said the group has more power now over the decision making, but the reality is that he is still the Leader and his decision will always be final.
 
I don't know that I'd say his decision is final, but I would suggest his opinion holds the greatest weight. And it seems that Darryl will side with Rick on most matters, with Herschel being the third part of something of a ruling triumvirate, and he no longer needs to be the soul voice of reason now that Rick has come full circle back to sanity. But I'd definitely agree that Carl's development is going to be interesting.

PM - I did buy into the Governor's meltdown and murder. I think this season saw him going further and further down that path towards sheer malevolent insanity, especially since Michonne relieved him of an eye and a daughter. Things weren't going his way: he'd lost his right hand man in Merle, Andrea and Milton both started to question and eventually betray him, his big plan to murder Rick backfired when Merle resurfaced for some payback, and then his townsfolk - the subjects of his little medieval fiefdom - ran away from the battle and refused to risk their lives further for his quest for revenge. That just wasn't on. It's kind of like the Soviets shooting any men who retreated from battle in WWII.

But I do agree with you in regards to Martinez and the other guy - I don't know why on earth they didn't gun him down then, and why they meekly went along with him afterwards.
 

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