Essential skills

Jo Zebedee

Aliens vs Belfast.
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blah - flags. So many flags.
This is mostly an aaaaarrgggh frustration post and any advice offered would gratefully received.

So, publishing, the industry. It isn't all about the writing, right?

I have a couple of attributes which I think, given feedback, woud be attributes as a writer

I can rewrite quickly and to the desired spec and have no problem doing so. Murdering darlings? Hand me the cleaver. ;)

I am committed and have good time management.

I write quickly, I can take the seeds of an idea and turn it into a novel with the average idea to finished about eight months. And if you tell me once to fix this it will dang well be fixed.

Does this sound like a job application? It should. :D

Where, in the query process does this have any place? Or is it the query only and to heck with attributes? Should it go in the bio, and even if it did, it ain't worth the paper...

I suspect some of this comes from knowledge of the writer but I am stuck in Northern Ireland with no local networking opportunities and while i am on twitter and absolute write and here, they're all swamped outlets.

Any suggestions? Or am I stuck on the circle of hell that is query letters and pitches and one liners and the sheer soul destroying nature of all that? Are we all?
 
I don't know what to say except that networking seems to be more important than ever these days ... and that once you do get a contract, all those attributes you mention will make you a publisher's dream.

I know it's expensive to go to conventions, what with travel expenses, hotels, and memberships, but it can really pay off. Is there any way that you can scrape up the money to go to a few? Going by the way you are online, you have a lovely personality and should have no trouble making new friends/contacts.
 
You're very kind.:)

I am going to the world fantasy con in Brighton in October, but it is expensive and means my kids aren't getting their usual hallow'een break. ( not that they are worried, doting Dad and Grandma for a week vs boring Mum, no brainer... :D), so it isn't something I can do too regularly. I will try to be a friendly potplant when I am there.

I will also keep going with the inane tweets and get the balance there - some tweet so much and retweet their blogs and fb and what not it can smack of desperation.

It was mostly an arggh of frustration. We all need them sometimes. :eek:

Right, back to determined, gritted teeth optimism.
 
Springs;

This is a link that might be of value to you. It's last year's event but there is one this year I don't doubt.

http://www.octocon.com/


Where as you might not be able to go to this Con,;) I think the site/members might have info about smaller one day events in your part of the world.
 
That's useful, SJAB, thankyou. Inish, in particular, might be of interest in Ireland. I will keep an eye out for this years, a day in Dublin is very doable and affordable! And fun. :)
 
I'm going to perch on the fence here: I do enjoy conventions, mainly because I get to meet my heroes, and other chrons members, and hear all kinds of sage advice, and have a good laugh, and the odd drink. But... doing loads of conventions ain't worth a mess of beans if you don't have the product to back it up. Yes, you'll physically meet agents and publishers, and if you're lucky or very pushy (or a combination of both) you might get them to look at your work. But, as with all other mediums, there are people in front of you and people behind you, wanting to do the same - sometimes I almost pity the poor agents (only after I've attacked them!), and they're always unfailingly polite and good-humoured. I'm almost certain that JKR never went to any conventions...

The work's the thing, and you'll make it, whether you go to loads of conventions or whether you go to none...:)
 
The work's the thing, and you'll make it, whether you go to loads of conventions or whether you go to none...:)


True. I was invited by a friend to go to my first Convention for fun. Later my youngest daughter expressed a wish to come. So they became a mum/daughter holiday/break. Since I was signed by my agent, part of the Convention is business, but most of it is still meeting up with friends and enjoying my daughter's company, as she moved away from home a good couple of years ago.

I also find listening too people in the business talk about the business in an informal setting does help you form your own opinion about things, though.
 
To my inexperienced eye, your initial query as an unpublished author has to be 90 per cent product, 10 per cent you. I don't think agents/publishers particularly care how you wrote your potential best seller, just that they've found it and they can make a pretty penny out of it. So it has to be marketable too (the bit I fall down on). After that, then your writing aptitudes come in - working fast, revisions, not being afraid of constructive criticism, so they can get even more bestsellers out of you and make even more money. ;) First of all you've got to get someone to listen to you and become convinced you can make them some money, and I do think without any footholds in the industry that's a pretty hard thing to do.
 
I also find listening to people in the business talk about the business in an informal setting does help you form your own opinion about things, though.


Without a doubt.

When I was sitting on the rejection train in the sidings some years ago, I submitted to an American agent, who wanted a bio page that would sell me to them.:confused: Damned if I can remember who it was, and it's lost in the fog from the steam engine, anyway, but boy, did I struggle with that. In the end I bent the truth a little, to sound more interesting. Got a form rejection within a week... So, when I was at FantasyCon, someone I was talking to asked me what made me get into writing, and I told the mildy amusing story of what I said to an actress friend of mine, about the rubbish on telly and how I could write better, and she challenged me to do just that. I did, she showed it to a producer who wrote me a really nice letter saying something like: "I enjoyed this, but I couldn't see it going without some changes especially etc etc". I thought this was a rejection, and took it no further... :eek:. In our circle in the lounge it stimulated a great conversation about being older and wiser with info gained from experience, and one guy said he'd rather read work than meet people, because he was too easily sold to by individual force of character. If only I'd known he was an agent, I'd have pitched there and then!

ps:it occurs to me now, my companions could have lied to me, when I asked who he was, after he left...
 
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But... doing loads of conventions ain't worth a mess of beans if you don't have the product to back it up. Yes, you'll physically meet agents and publishers, and if you're lucky or very pushy (or a combination of both) you might get them to look at your work. But, as with all other mediums, there are people in front of you and people behind you, wanting to do the same - sometimes I almost pity the poor agents (only after I've attacked them!), and they're always unfailingly polite and good-humoured. I'm almost certain that JKR never went to any conventions...

The work's the thing, and you'll make it, whether you go to loads of conventions or whether you go to none...:)

Well, you need a good product, of course, but don't go to conventions as a salesperson with a MS, but instead just to be known, for all the right reasons. :)

In business, people want to know people, put names to faces, know who can supply what, know if they can work with someone, etc.
 
Ok, well these posts prompted me to check out what's on here in Australia. I'm still a bit surprised at the cost here. There is a convention in each state every year. You can attend for the tidy sum of between $150AU to $250AU! :eek:
 
My two penneth worth:

Yes, conventions are expensive, but they're well worth attending for all sorts of reasons, particularly if you have ambitions to be a writer.

My first novel series was published by Solaris. I'd met the commissioning editors etc at conventions, but that's not what sold the series to them. Before approaching them about a novel, I'd already submitted two short stories to the same commissioning editor for two different anthologies. The first (for the Solaris Book of New Fantasy) was rejected for being too long (9,000 words) by an unknown author. The second (for the Solaris Book of New SF 3) was accepted. So they already knew I could write and, indeed, had already bought my work. However, the fact that they also had come to know me at conventions certainly didn't harm when I sent them the novel MS.

My first agent (John Jarrold) I also met at cons. But, I made sure he knew that I'd had some two dozen short stories published, that one of those had been shortlisted for a BSFA Award, and that enough of those sales had been to professional markets to qualify me for SFWA membership before I approached him to represent me. The fact that he knew me undoubtedly helped to ensure his attention, but John wouldn't have taken me on unless he believed my novel had merit -- he can't afford to act otherwise.

Attending cons provides the opportunity to meet editors, agents, and other industry figures (no bad thing); it enables you to meet and listen to all sorts of authors; it enables you to connect with and befriend like-minded people you wouldn't otherwise encounter; it puts you on the spot where all sorts of deals are brokered and projects conceived... Oh, and it's a heck of a lot of fun.

I consider going to cons an integral part of what I do, and much of my year is geared around doing so, but that's me. Certainly con-going isn't the most vital element of the process. The writing is still paramount. Without that, all the networking, chatting, listening, socialising, comparing notes, and making plans in the world won't achieve a thing. With that, all of the above can help get a foot in the door and give you a glimmer of opportunity. The rest, as always, is up to you.
 
Please don't misunderstand me. I do not doubt the value of networking and attending the conventions. I was merely shocked at the price here. Unfortunately other issues govern where my money has to go. :)
 
Tracey, i know what you mean. Going to Brighton in October is going to cost me in the region of a grand with accomodation and travel and food, plus I will be missing Hallow'een with the kids ( which is a big holiday and night in Ireland) and, apart from, maybe, the Irish festival -- not this year, too close to Brighton -- will struggle to justify that expense too often. I will let you know if it was worth it!
 
Tracey, i know what you mean. Going to Brighton in October is going to cost me in the region of a grand with accomodation and travel and food, plus I will be missing Hallow'een with the kids ( which is a big holiday and night in Ireland) and, apart from, maybe, the Irish festival -- not this year, too close to Brighton -- will struggle to justify that expense too often. I will let you know if it was worth it!

Yes, Brighton this year is going to be expensive, but it is the World Fantasy Con and it only comes to the UK once every ten years. I tend to go to Eastercon and Fantasycon each year, though a couple of years I have only attended Eastercon as money was tight.

As Ian, said, its meeting like-minded people. I still remember how wonderful it was to meet people that didn't look at me as if I had two heads or put up crossed fingers. Most of my life I had to stick my dreams of writing in a bottom drawer and try and forget about them. It took all my courage to actually start putting my ideas down, and to find there were folk out there that didn't think I was a foolish and sad middle-aged woman who was wasting her time on this silly dream of writing was marvelous.
 
Yes, Brighton this year is going to be expensive, but it is the World Fantasy Con and it only comes to the UK once every ten years. I tend to go to Eastercon and Fantasycon each year, though a couple of years I have only attended Eastercon as money was tight.

As Ian, said, its meeting like-minded people. I still remember how wonderful it was to meet people that didn't look at me as if I had two heads or put up crossed fingers. Most of my life I had to stick my dreams of writing in a bottom drawer and try and forget about them. It took all my courage to actually start putting my ideas down, and to find there were folk out there that didn't think I was a foolish and sad middle-aged woman who was wasting her time on this silly dream of writing was marvelous.

I should have said I'm really looking forward to it. I'm not knocking conventions, I'd love to be in England and nearer a few of them, they sound right up my street (listening to talks and going to the bar), but they are a big investment. One that I think is worth making or I wouldn't be there, but cost has to come into play. I'm not making any money from writing, most of us aren't, there is only so much in the pot. Last year's investment was paying for some editing and learning more of the skills needed, this year it's Worldcon.

After that, I'm sure I need a luxury yacht in order to have a proper writing domicile where I can concentrate and a crew of nice young chaps to sail it. (2014 here I come!) :p :D
 

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