Maps

[nightdreamer]

I like my worlds to be accurate (or at least geologically plausible). Middle-Earth gives me the shivers in that respect.

Ironically, I was thinking of listing Middle Earth as one that wasn't all that bad. Mordor does exemplify the "mountain box" problem, though.

 

[allmywires]

Ha! No, I have the map next to me on my wall and I can quite confidently say that an orogenous event that caused that many mountain ranges probably wouldn't bear thinking about!

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Just to be devils advocate, maps bore me and dont take me any further as a reader. In fact,thy sometimes get in the way of my flow as i find myself stopping to look and lose all concentration. Am i the only one?

 

[thaddeus6th]

'Mountain box' problem?

 

[Kylara]

All maps must have "here be dragons" on or, or, or, I'll set my dragons to burning them all up...yeah...

 

[thaddeus6th]

Springs, I'm sure you aren't. Maps can sometimes irritate me if they're difficult to make out.

Edited extra bit: Kylara, my story does include mention of dragons. Maybe "Here there be dragons" would actually fit on the map. I'm not sure if that would work, though.

 

[Dozmonic]

Write it in runes, solis sacerdotibus

 

[allmywires]

'Mountain box' problem?

Look up Mordor on Google Images - it's essentially 'boxed in' by mountains which, unless through a very, very fortuitous event indeed, doesn't occur in nature. Mainly because the kind of forces required to form those kinds of structures occur over large, long areas. Not nice, compact boxes.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Ha, I really was going to use a runic type of alphabet but it didn't work. I've just tried vaguely gothic lettering, and that seems rather better.

Thanks, allmywires. I remember the Mordor map, and you're right (of course). My map'll have mountains, but no box.

 

[Abernovo]

I occasionally draw diagrams to keep myself consistent when I'm writing, but nothing more. That said, I tend to write science fiction rather than fantasy, which seems to produce more mappage.

When it comes to real life, I use maps all the time. I've even had to produce them for some projects. Perhaps as a result of this, most maps in fantasy novels leave me cold. Sorry, guys.

EDIT: just seen the latest posts. amw, that is the classic example of WHY fantasy maps often do nothing for me - the lack of realism. The other thing is, I often think they add little to the story: Big City is west of Little City, which south of Great Marsh and north of the Evil Wizard's Castle. I got all that from reading the story. /rant over

 

[Gordian Knot]

Look up Mordor on Google Images - it's essentially 'boxed in' by mountains which, unless through a very, very fortuitous event indeed, doesn't occur in nature. Mainly because the kind of forces required to form those kinds of structures occur over large, long areas. Not nice, compact boxes.

Ah, but who said they were formed naturally. I expect Sauron himself had quite a hand in the shaping of his stronghold.....

 

[Ursa major]

Isn't the Great Basin (covering most of Nevada and bits of California, Idaho, Oregon and Utah) an area cut off from the surrounding territory by mountains?

 

[Grinnel]

Although I am a map maker - anyone who's a dungeon master must be - I am not a map reader. I confess that I only give cursory glances to the great works authors have put in their books, without absorbing much of anything, and then I read on.

Unless I find myself completely lost, I rarely refer back to them. That often also goes for lists of characters posted by authors. Although I am horrible at names (I got incredibly lost in Lord of the Rings) I would rather just read on and sort it out than lose my place and find the map or index.

But maybe that's just me.

 

[svalbard]

I love maps. When reading I like to see where the journey is going, it sort of grounds the story for me. When I am writing, my maps(and this is what I love) will depict a world as I want it to be in relation to my writing, as long as it feels true. So to Thad, make it what you want it to be. It is your world, your vision.

 

[allmywires]

Isn't the Great Basin (covering most of Nevada and bits of California, Idaho, Oregon and Utah) an area cut off from the surrounding territory by mountains?

Technically...but it's on much larger scale than Mordor (using this as an example) and it's quite a complex geological region, what with the subduction zone-related mountains to the far west and the main extensional basin in the middle, neither of which Mordor appears to have I'm not an expert in the area mind...

 

[matle]

Just to be devils advocate, maps bore me and dont take me any further as a reader. In fact,thy sometimes get in the way of my flow as i find myself stopping to look and lose all concentration. Am i the only one?

seconded!

 

[nubins]

Technically...but it's on much larger scale than Mordor (using this as an example) and it's quite a complex geological region, what with the subduction zone-related mountains to the far west and the main extensional basin in the middle, neither of which Mordor appears to have I'm not an expert in the area mind...

The carpathian mountains form a sort of bowl in the middle of Romania (right on Transylvania in fact).. making them a natural defensive position. Not really a neat square though

 

[allmywires]

True...well, they're sort of more a U-shape from what I can tell...ok obviously there are exceptions, but you get my point.

 

[Ursa major]

Aren't the Carpathians merely the eastern part of a great circle of mountains whose outlet is the Iron Gates gorge?

 

[Gumboot]

I'm a big map lover myself. In fact, I was just contemplating maps for my epic fantasy. I'd like one in fairly high definition for the web, and one in line art for Kindle. I've explored some fantasy mapping software and am finding out that's not a good way to go. Campaign Cartographer 3 sucks for the purpose, and it doesn't look like Dundjinni would be any better. The gaming geeks all say that everything else is worse, which I find hard to imagine. Guess I'll have to stick with hand drawing and maybe filling in with Corel.

I was going to start another thread on the topic, but this one came up serendipitously and it fits in pretty well. What are everyone's thoughts on scientific accuracy in fantasy worlds? I looked again at Terry Brooks' map for the Sword of Shannara trilogy and once again it gave me a headache and queasy stomach. Rivers do not cross mountain ranges (except in very rare cases where the river was there first and the mountains rose around it, as with the curiously named New River here in the States), rivers do not empty into lakes without an outlet unless it's a dead salt lake, mountains do not arrange themselves in neat circles or squares to fit a plot.

All of my worldbuilding strives to be grounded in realism, and as a result my mapping is much the same; thoroughly detailed and geologically and geographically accurate as much as possible.

My primary mapping source is an enormous continental map at a 1px = 1km scale, with dozens of supplementary maps for everything from regions to specific buildings.

I find most fantasy maps to be pretty terrible, but I think that's in large part because the writer didn't create a map, and it was left to some poor artist to cobble together something from their work. It really bugs me when writers make even the most basic geographic errors. Middle-earth is often cited as a great example of the comprehensively and realistically realised world, and yet Andruin flows down the landward side of the Misty Mountains. Grrr!

It wouldn't be possible for me to write without a detailed map; the world exists first and in many instances directly dictates how the plot unfolds. Just like the real world.