Patchface

anywhere around patchface isnt the safest place to be, but yes I am pretty sure he is at Eastwatch with Shireen
 
Maybe I'm just dense, but I don't really understand the "fear" surrounding Patchface. I don't find him creepy in a violent way, I find him creepy in a "how right is he?" way. He doesn't seem to possess the wits to be violent.
 
I don't think your dense Juleska, I just find him to be very creepy in a "he knows something I don't know" way, which is only creepy because he acts such the fool all the time. I don't think he is personally going to do anything violent, but I could totally see him opening the gates for the others and worshipping them.
I don't know, because of the Vision Mel has of him, I keep picturing him laughing and dancing around in that jerky way, ringing his bells while all hell breaks loose around him and people are dying.
 
I know so many think Patchface to be simpley just a fool and nothing more. Im of the firm belief it is all an act. Im not sure as to the purpose of pretending to be a simple minded fool but i believe that is the case non the less.

***Lets remeber prior to the ship wreck that killed EVERYONE but him he was said to be "clever boy with astonishing wit". Some of the wittiest characters have been extremely smart, clever and masters of manipulation. Example: Varys, Littlefinger, Tyrion, even Tywin. All very good @ reading people situations making people do as they want with out those people even realizing the intentions. excellent puppeteers. All have fabulous quick quips/remarks in responses as well. None of these example as played the roll of a fool though.....

***So who is to say patchface is not the same? A 1 time slave whos freedom is bought (some what he leaves the free city to basically become a slave @ storms end he just wouldnt have the slave title) The only person to survive this massive ship wreck accident. No matter if his survival is intentional or accidental pure luck, if you were a former slave who was to be nothing more then a fool @ court and every one died but you why would u not want to play dumb? The questions, interigation, the whos whats whys and how everything happened on that day/night. Possibly being blamed for the wreck or accused of not saving anyone else but yourself on board. Heck id play dumb too. once u play that card though u cant undo it, you need to stick too it.

***Also, what if patchface did not survive? What if he drowned as well and was replaced much like Pate by a FM. He shows up ashore 3 days later?? What more perfect set up could a FM ask for. To roam amoung court with no one thinking any more then a simple minded fool. FM have no rush on their assignments. They strike and kill when the time is right. And what seem to be random ramblings seem to come true but no one in the book itself has caught onto this. Only us as readers have. Again a great way to play his role with the ramblings. To sound insane when they really do mean something......master manipulator.....


Thats just the feeling i have when it comes to patchface, i think something big is going to be revielved about him. If it doesnt every one can tell me they told me so lol :D
 
When people face life-threatening situations, they usually see flashes of their lives before them. Key moments and significant memories. I think that's what happened to Patchface when he drowned. But instead of seeing his own life (it is a fantasy universe) he got to see a lot more than just that. Who knows, maybe that's what made him insane!

Another explanation, it's the simplest, most likely one I believe, is that he just went mad because of the danger he was facing. The same effect that happens to soldiers at war, and can range in intensity. Now he's simply a mindless prophecysing instrument at the hand of some greater force, which we might never get a real explanation for. Much like R'hllor's flames.
 
Keebs I am with you on the first half of your theory about patchface. I do think he knows more then he is letting on, but I don't think he is playing dumb because he didn't want to explain things. I think he has gone a bit crazy, but he still knows things. he just might not be able to understand what he knows, or make sense of it.

I disagree with the idea of him being a faceless man. I could be wrong, but I don't think faceless men are prophetic in any way. They are already super bad-ass, I don't think they need to be prophets on top of what they can already do.

Pilpel, I tend to agree with your first point. He had some visions while he was underwater. That's why all of his ramblings/prophecies start with "Under the sea" not because they actually happen under the sea, but because he saw them while he was under the sea.
 
FM are being thrown around everywhere...
Now i'm told their was a pestilance called the great Spring.
How it came to be was never fully explained though...

Speaking of diseases and going somewhat, but not entirely, offtopic.
What is going to happen to Shireen? And what connection does i have with Patchface? (And making a mockery of my own question/thoughts) Is he the reason Stannis only managed to begot one child with his queen and a doomed one at that? (After all he had no trouble creating shadow babies...) Is Shireen in truth the representation of death and Patchface her future lover? Stay tuned for the next episode of the Adventures of the Patched Faced Patchface!

Edit: Oh God! Can't believe we missed it all. he got a PATCHED face. You can never trust anyone with a patched face. It is known!
 
KiwiBird said:
FM are being thrown around everywhere...
Now i'm told their was a pestilance called the great Spring.
How it came to be was never fully explained though...

Speaking of diseases and going somewhat, but not entirely, offtopic.
What is going to happen to Shireen? And what connection does i have with Patchface? (And making a mockery of my own question/thoughts) Is he the reason Stannis only managed to begot one child with his queen and a doomed one at that? (After all he had no trouble creating shadow babies...) Is Shireen in truth the representation of death and Patchface her future lover? Stay tuned for the next episode of the Adventures of the Patched Faced Patchface!

Edit: Oh God! Can't believe we missed it all. he got a PATCHED face. You can never trust anyone with a patched face. It is known!
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Ummm..... What?

I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say here...
 
Eversummer said:
Perhaps the Drowned God somehow "showed" Patchface what's in store...
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Could Be.

Someone on another thread on another site referred to Patchface as a ticking bomb that may or may not go off. i this that is very fitting, we don't know what, if anything, patchface is going to do, how it will impact the story or in which direction the blast will go.
 
I know this is a necro, but while I was reading today on Wiki of Ice and Fire I came across something -- might be a coincidence, might not be. The statement by Melisandre about Patchface, "That creature is dangerous. Many a time I have glimpsed him in my flames. Sometimes there are skulls about him, and his lips are red with blood" reminded me of Clarence Crabb although Cracklaw Point is nowhere near Patchface's shipwreck location. Also, the Crabb reference could tie in with the "serving men are crabs" statement he makes (not sure how, but maybe).
 
Wow, that is a gem of a find there.

Let's add this little prophecy/gibberish from Patchface himself:

"Under the sea the mermen feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs'"
 
What if this line is actually a prophecy for Brienne and Pod killing the members of the brave companions at Cracklaw point?

"The mermen feast on starfish soup" - starfish soup could be a reference to Shagwell, who was a jester and may have had stars on his clothing (someone help me out with a description of his appearance."

"And all the serving men are crabs." - Dick Crabbe brought Brienne to the Whispers and "served up" the starfish soup.
 
Let's take another look at Needle's original list, and let's try just one little change of perspective: Whenever Patchface says "Under the sea", imagine instead that he just says "In the future."

“Under the sea, the birds have scales for feathers.”
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- I agree with needle on this, in the future (from when he said it) dragons will fly

“It is always summer under the sea.” “The merwives wear nennymoans in their
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hair and weave gowns of silver seaweed.”
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- A reference to the end of seasons in the future? Is the second part just a reference to something that Dany was going to wear? A reference to a silver dress and tiara/crown that she wears in one of her little dips into local culture and fashion? I thought she had a silver dress and a crown at some point. Given the idea that mermen = ironborn (see below), then the merwive might be Dany as the wife of Victarion.

“Under the sea it snows up.” “and the rain is dry as bone.”
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- Jon Snow would rise up? and raining death (bones) everywhere.

“The shadows come to dance my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord.” “The
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shadows come to stay my lord, stay my lord, stay my lord.”
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- I think this is a reference to the others (although Rhllor's shadows are a possibility as Needle pointed out). No mention of "Under the sea"... mayhaps this is in the present.

“Under the sea, you fall up.”
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- In the future you fly? Who did he say this too?

“Here we eat fish, under the sea, the fish eat us.”
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- In the future roles will be reversed. Could be a reference to the poor rising up, the Wildlings rising up, the exiles in Essos, the Others... or any number of others. Based on the later reference to Davos being the fish... This could foretell Davos's rise to power.

“Under the sea no one wears hats.”
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- I like Needle's idea that hats are crowns. In the future there will be no Kings. Could refer to wildling takeover or something else.

“Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and
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black.”
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- Green blue and black... so close to being the color of those dragons (Green, Gold, and black). Could be the colors of houses - Green: Tyrell; Blue: Arryn; Black: Greyjoy? Smoke rising in bubbles... could be that problems here and there are localized (like the folks in the rest of westeros not caring about the wildlings and others at the wall)

“Under the sea the old fish eat the young fish.” “Up here the young fish
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teach the old fish.”
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- As Needle noted, this refers to Davos. The second part is his kids teaching him (did Patchface say this while Davos was getting reading lessons), and the first part may refer to the future when Davos's sons were killed at Blackwater.

“Fool’s blood. King’s blood, blood on the maiden’s thigh, but chains for the
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guests and chains for the bridegroom, aye, aye, aye.”
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- Spot on with TRW. Without this comment we wouldn't have a discussion thread about his "prophecies"

“In the dark the dead are dancing.”
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- The others. No future prediction needed.

“Under the sea the merman feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are
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crabs.”
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- A prophecy of Brienne's fight at the Whispers perhaps.

“Under the sea the crows are white as snow.”
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- Foretold the coming of the white ravens that announce the end of summer. Or could be about the future of the NW under Jon Snow.

“Away, away, come with me beneath the sea, away, away, away.”
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- Go away into the future? Let's get where we're going? I'm showing you the way to the future? I don't know.


“I will lead it.” “We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves
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we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming,
oh, oh, oh.”
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A reference to Dany crossing the sea. Blowing that horn (seashells), Dothraki by her side (ride seahorses). Not sure what's up with Patchface saying he will lead it though. Mark that someone = mermaid here and that is probably the same throughout prophecies. Maybe mermen = ironborn and mermaid = Asha Greyjoy? (I'll have to re-look the starfish soup prophecy perhaps)

“Under the sea, men marry fishes.”
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Davos was marked as a fish before... some connection to him here perhaps.
 
Tywin said:
What if this line is actually a prophecy for Brienne and Pod killing the members of the brave companions at Cracklaw point?

"The mermen feast on starfish soup" - starfish soup could be a reference to Shagwell, who was a jester and may have had stars on his clothing (someone help me out with a description of his appearance."

"And all the serving men are crabs." - Dick Crabbe brought Brienne to the Whispers and "served up" the starfish soup.
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From "A Wiki of Ice and Fire":
Shagwell, better known as Shagwell the Fool, was a psychotic jester and member of the Brave Companions mercenary company. He wears green and pink motley, tells cruel jokes, and fights with a three-headed flail.
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I wonder if it was a spiked flail which would make it a type of morningstar. Or if he wore a traditional jester's cap it has a shape similar to a star.

Another possibility for the "starfish soup" could be the Karstark sunburst, which is a star-like design.

Edit: Also, I think the "seahorses" might just be ships. The Dothraki refer to them as "wooden horses". And then "into the sea and out again" could be a reference to Dany crossing the Narrow Sea with "mermen" blowing horns to announce her landing ... isn't there a house that has a merman as its sigil?
 
... Yes, Manderly is the Merman.

Karstark has the "sun of winter" on theirs. Dorne has a sun (star perhaps?) on theirs as well.

I just found that Ardrian Celtigar is known as the "Red Crab" and he has a shield with crabs all over it.
So:

"Under the sea the merman feast on starfish soup, and all the serving men are crabs."
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Could have something to do with Wyman Manderly's revenge perhaps?
 
Patchface said:
Under the sea the crows are white as snow.
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So another thought on this one -- white could mean "pure" (think bride wearing white on wedding day) and the "crows" are the NW, do the Unsullied fit the bill? I've often wondered what happens to them after Dany brings them over and has no more use for them; could they be used to man the Wall, at least for the current generation?
 
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