The Winds of Winter publishing date guesses?

With overall changes they make and are going to make (like leaving out Arienne and Aegon), I doubt they can convincingly converge. If you pull out too many threads and replace them with threads of other colour, it isn't the same cloth anymore.
 
I hope the M25 doesn't turn out to be an accurate analogy for the next couple of books. Thousands of characters all moving along at a snail's pace.
 
The last two books (or at least Feast of Crows) were more comparable to the M25 then his earlier, more direct releases. He mentioned there will be a lot of deaths in the next one, so maybe it is like a long version of the A537.
 
crooksy73 said:
But both the M40 and the M1 head to the M25
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You'll have to explain this metaphor to me because the only thing I got out of it thanks to Google was that it was about some motorways which is in no way the same as a multi-level story. If you change too much and they did, same ending won't be convincing. Sure you can force the story to go there, but what would be the point?

For instance, Willas doesn't exist in the TVShow yet Martin had confirmed that he'll have an important part. Arienne is on her way to become the next ruler of Dorne yet in TVShow, she doesn't exist. In the books, Cersei's mistakes were slowly and subtly building up to tear her down down down, yet no such thing in the TVShow. In the books, the conversation Tyrion and Jaime have during Tyrion's escape and Tyrion's conversation with Tywin leave an impossible impact on Tyrion and Jaime and are the foundation of their later development and decisions. It doesn't happen in the TVShow making BookTyrion and ShowTyrion even more different and likewise for Jaime. Tyrion will be present at Dany's wedding as a guest and not a slave act. Varys is no longer in KL. Tyrion and Jaime most of all are no longer the same characters and it isn't even close. The two making the same decisions as their book counterparts isn't plausible anymore. Varys not being in KL changes everything because he is the puppetmaster and the spider, and he was just removed from his marionettes and his nets. The entire dynamics was changed and therefore it can't end the same. It isn't two roads leading to the same place anymore. It may have been so in the beginning, but along the way, Show writers decided that they liked another road more. One that doesn't converge with M1.
 
We don't know for certain that it isn't two roads leading to the same place. I honestly think the ending of the book and the ending of the show will be incredibly similar although they'll take different paths to get there - hence my analogy
 
But I am pointing it that they went not just on a second road, but that they went through several roads that keep leading further and further away. ;p
 
I personally think that the ending is beyond the control of those characters no matter how their arcs differ between tv series and books. I think the ending will be a battle between Danearys and her dragons vs The Others beyond or at the wall. Maybe with the Shadow Tower going up in very tall and intense flames (Sun rising in the West....?).
 
Narkalui said:
I personally think that the ending is beyond the control of those characters no matter how their arcs differ between tv series and books. I think the ending will be a battle between Danearys and her dragons vs The Others beyond or at the wall. Maybe with the Shadow Tower going up in very tall and intense flames (Sun rising in the West....?).
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But how when her story arc is being greatly impacted?
 
She'll get there... somehow. Then marry her nephew Jaehaeris Snow. And her distant cousin Aegon Blackfyre will sadly die quite heroically and all Varys' hopes with him...
 
To the same point without it being completely unconvincing? There is no such thing as an unimportant thread in a colourful cloth.
 
Another too true analogy. I just believe that no matter the differences in narrative between tv and book, the threat of The Others will always convincingly draw the surviving key characters to the wall at the end for a massive battle in which the Others and their undead hordes get torched in Dragon fire...
 
Narkalui said:
Another too true analogy. I just believe that no matter the differences in narrative between tv and book, the threat of The Others will always convincingly draw the surviving key characters to the wall at the end for a massive battle in which the Others and their undead hordes get torched in Dragon fire...
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Exactly! The M25!!
 
crooksy73 said:
Exactly! The M25!!
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Zing?

If we think Martin will stick to his original synopsis, the final battle will take place in Winterfell.

it is possible that the Show and the Books will have the same skeleton, but if all the meat is different, then it will be a different breed of animal altogether.
 
Narkalui said:
Another too true analogy. I just believe that no matter the differences in narrative between tv and book, the threat of The Others will always convincingly draw the surviving key characters to the wall at the end for a massive battle in which the Others and their undead hordes get torched in Dragon fire...
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crooksy73 said:
Exactly! The M25!!
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So, as long as two roads have a bit of trees of the same kind on the side, it is the same road?
 
I love this thread!

If it has the same skeleton then surely it's the same animal?

If two roads lead to one road it doesn't matter what type of trees are on either side, the destination is still the same one road
 
crooksy73 said:
I love this thread!

If it has the same skeleton then surely it's the same animal?

If two roads lead to one road it doesn't matter what type of trees are on either side, the destination is still the same one road
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Nope. Just a similar animal and this no longer has the same skeleton. Just one that might possibly have same elements. Giraffe has the same number of neck vertebrates as human. TVShow and books are now in that general relationship.

No. That's not what I meant. What I meant is, if you arrive to a road and that road has the same specie of trees surrounding it as a road you visited before, does that make it necessarily the same road?
 
and for MY analogy I meant like.... a Great Dane and a German Sheppard would have (probably) very similar skeleton's, but they are 2 totally different breeds of dog.

or like, humans vs. chimpanzees. pretty similar skeletal structure, very different "meat"
 
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