Is Varys a Targ?

[dragonstone]

Is Varys a member of House Targaryen? Maybe I'm mad, and the "evidence" I have is really flimsy, but just think about it:
1. He is still a targ loyalist a decade and a half since they were overthrown despite the reign of Arys being a truly vile and viscous one.
2. He has one of the characteristic name patterns in that his name ends in a "ys" (Viserys, Daenerys, Rhaenys, Jaehaerys, Arys etc).
3. His last name is never mentioned - although correct me if I'm wrong in that.
4. He knows ALL the secret passageways through the castle in Kings Landing despite there being no plans/maps still in existence, surely those complex passageways would take a lifetime to learn - meaning he may have lived there all his life.
5. If you look at a Targ family tree (can't post link cos I'm a noob) you'll see that various Targs like Rhaegel and Valarr produced descendant not heirs to the iron throne so there may yet be more lines of targs out there.

Although Varys claims to be Braavosi he is prone to lying and assuming false identities, so who knows what his true origins are. So any takers?

 

[dragonstone]

awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Myriah_Martell
Here's the url to that family tree. Can't post a link.

 

[The Imp]

Is Varys a member of House Targaryen? Maybe I'm mad, and the "evidence" I have is really flimsy, but just think about it:
1. He is still a targ loyalist a decade and a half since they were overthrown despite the reign of Arys being a truly vile and viscous one.
2. He has one of the characteristic name patterns in that his name ends in a "ys" (Viserys, Daenerys, Rhaenys, Jaehaerys, Arys etc).
3. His last name is never mentioned - although correct me if I'm wrong in that.
4. He knows ALL the secret passageways through the castle in Kings Landing despite there being no plans/maps still in existence, surely those complex passageways would take a lifetime to learn - meaning he may have lived there all his life.
5. If you look at a Targ family tree (can't post link cos I'm a noob) you'll see that various Targs like Rhaegel and Valarr produced descendant not heirs to the iron throne so there may yet be more lines of targs out there.

Although Varys claims to be Braavosi he is prone to lying and assuming false identities, so who knows what his true origins are. So any takers?

I love a good crackpot theory

I think you mayt be on to something. I've had my suspicions about Varys being a eunuch, mummer, etc. The name thing is really obvious, yet i don't remember anyone ever making that connection before. I personally think he has something to do with the Faceless Men, but maybe him being a Targ is a better explaination.

 

[Koopa]

I doubt there are many real legitimate targs to be found. Their lineage going near extinct is well documented. If there are more targs to be found it are either:

-BlackFyre descendants, if the one Barristan slew wasn't truly the last.
-Descendants in other lineages, most prominent among them baratheon and Martell. maybe Velaryon as well.
-A bunch of other bastards, There is bound to be some descendants left of Aegon the Unworthy (only the Great bastards are given by name). With the footnote being that technically he did legitimize the lot. Then there Boaz his speculation of the Mad King spreading his seed as well.The usual suspects.
-Apparently one of the Freeholds as mentioned in ADWD is full of silver haired people descending from Old Valyria. So there may be some far removed nephews/cousins far far removed to be found.

 

[Ursa major]

I've wondered about Varys being a Faceless Man, but thinking about it, this might only make sense of Varys is what we expect Arya will become: someone trained in the arts of the Faceless Men, but independent of the organisation.

(Now the Faceless men may not be the organisation we think it is, but at face value (), they act as paid assassins. Varys is on one hell of a mission if he's one of them, and Illyrio must have even deeper pockets than we think if he's paying for the job, even if it's only since Robert's rebellion succeeded. And who was paying for Varys's services before that?**)

What Arya's been told - which may not be the truth - the Faceless Men arose from suffering the Valyrians imposed on their slaves. It seems unlikely that the Faceless Men would be involved in a long-term plot to put a Valyrian family on the throne of Westeros. Or to act as the last Targ king (unless he was destroying the dynasty from within, which he may have been).


Oh, and to answer the OP: no, I don't think Varys is a Targ. But then I have really no idea who or what he is or what he's been doing all these years. (His rôle is one of the biggest mysteries in the books.)





** - But what if the Faceless Man, Varys, is being paid for his Faceless Man services.... My crackpot theory of the day is that it's the children who are paying: the Children of the Forest. (Varys said to Kevan, "It was for the realm. For the children." Is he really plotting so hard for the benefit of the young people of Westeros? This seems unlikely.) The Children may have wanted the Targs to try to retake Westeros as this would forment war, and give the Children the opportunity to make a comeback. Perhaps that was why Varys was worried that the non-Targ-based war in Westeros had come too early, i.e. too early for the Children's plans. (Whether the Others work for the Children, I don't know. The events beyond the Wall that Bran observed may not have been what they seemed. Bran may be being set up to play a rôle in the upcoming conflict, on the side of the Children and their armed wing, the Others....)

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Oh, and to answer the OP: no, I don't think Varys is a Targ. But then I have really no idea who or what he is or what he's been doing all these years. (His rôle is one of the biggest mysteries in the books.)

Perhaps he is just what he seems - a clever and manipulative eunuch who is running schemes within others' schemes in order to help the Targaryens reclaim the throne because he truly believes that is best for the realm.

My crackpot theory of the day is that it's the children who are paying: the Children of the Forest.

From what we've seen of the Children so far, are we certain they even understand currency? The way they have been depicted, I can't say they struck me as a people who have mounds of gold stashed away in their caves...

 

[juleska]

I like the idea of Varys being part-Targ....I think it fits, and as others have pointed out there are likely plenty of bastards that Aerys fathered. Varys got his start as a street-rat. How many of Robert's bastards got the same fate....left to fend for themselves in lives of squalor? And yet those who knew their father was the king took a deep pride in that connection. I think it's entirely possible that Varys learned (somehow) that his father was the King, and wormed his way into King's Landing to be closer to his "family".

If he's not a Targ (just as likely) he is definitely a hardcore Targ loyalist for some reason or another, and it seems more personal than just money, so I don't think the Faceless Men is an option. Would a hired assassin say he's doing it "for the children"?

 

[The Imp]

I like the idea of Varys being part-Targ....I think it fits, and as others have pointed out there are likely plenty of bastards that Aerys fathered. Varys got his start as a street-rat. How many of Robert's bastards got the same fate....left to fend for themselves in lives of squalor? And yet those who knew their father was the king took a deep pride in that connection. I think it's entirely possible that Varys learned (somehow) that his father was the King, and wormed his way into King's Landing to be closer to his "family".

If he's not a Targ (just as likely) he is definitely a hardcore Targ loyalist for some reason or another, and it seems more personal than just money, so I don't think the Faceless Men is an option. Would a hired assassin say he's doing it "for the children"?

The only thing missing when Varys said "for the children" was the sky parting, golden rays of light streaming down, and angels singing.

I don't believe for a second that Varys is worried about the children, at least not the children of the 7 kingdoms. I also don't buy his little work of fiction about "the good of the realm". The only things we know about him are the things he has told us. His entire personna could be a wrok of his own fiction.

 

[juleska]

The only thing missing when Varys said "for the children" was the sky parting, golden rays of light streaming down, and angels singing.

I don't believe for a second that Varys is worried about the children, at least not the children of the 7 kingdoms. I also don't buy his little work of fiction about "the good of the realm". The only things we know about him are the things he has told us. His entire personna could be a wrok of his own fiction.

I didn't take it that way. I thought "the children" referred to the Targaryen Kids....as in, I am doing this for the children who deserve this throne, and deserved a better legacy than what Robert's Rebellion handed them.

I personally think the only time Varys is really telling the truth are the few glimpses we have into his "true" motivations. Notice that he only says "for the children" and "I serve the realm" and other such fluffy schlock when he's talking to someone who is about to die?

 

[vanslyke]

Varys a Targaryen eh?? hmmm. I like it! I'm just gonna stick that in the back of my mind and marinade with it for a while.

 

[dragonstone]

I doubt there are many real legitimate targs to be found. Their lineage going near extinct is well documented. If there are more targs to be found it are either:

-BlackFyre descendants, if the one Barristan slew wasn't truly the last.
-Descendants in other lineages, most prominent among them baratheon and Martell. maybe Velaryon as well.
-A bunch of other bastards, There is bound to be some descendants left of Aegon the Unworthy (only the Great bastards are given by name). With the footnote being that technically he did legitimize the lot. Then there Boaz his speculation of the Mad King spreading his seed as well.The usual suspects.
-Apparently one of the Freeholds as mentioned in ADWD is full of silver haired people descending from Old Valyria. So there may be some far removed nephews/cousins far far removed to be found.

There were Targs who had children though who were never given the iron throne, see my post above and click on the link, scroll down to the family tree. Valarr Targaryan had two sons, Rhaegel had two sets of twins while Aerion had a son. It is imminently possible that those produced descendants and that Varys is in fact one of them.

 

[C Of K]

The only thing missing when Varys said "for the children" was the sky parting, golden rays of light streaming down, and angels singing.

Varys reminded me of a very young Marvin Gaye at that part.
"Save the babies."

One thing to think about. If Varys is a Targ, what significance might his being cut have? Has he actually been cut at all? and who would do such a thing?

 

[Koopa]

I know what u are hinting at, it's just that in the series the weeding out of the Targaryens is well documented. So i'm guessing anyone whose last name is Targaryen besides Dany and the varys-protected Aegon are no more.No doubt there are lineages who have targ blood in them, but i do believe there isn't anyone left besides those two whose last name is targaryen.

1)Valarr and matarys died during the Great Spring. If i remember correctly so did valarr his sons.

2)I do not know not what happens to Rhaegal his twins, but since the targaryen line ends there, i'm presuming they where girls who married into other families whose children therefore no longer took the name of targaryen. Or did not have offspring of their own.

3)Daeron had a feeble-witted daughter. She a woman so the targ name dissapears with her offspring, and the likelyhood that she had children is low. Even now people with a mental handicap having a child is often considered taboo.

4)The Brightflame's son is an interesting one. He was overlooked for the madness of his father. (besides being an infant) making it kinda ironic that is was aegon the unlikely grandson who ended up being Aerys the Mad.
Wasn't that the son Olenna was almost wedded too? maybe the son did not have any offspring cause nobody wanted to risk it because of his father. His fate though is unknown, but since we never heard of him having any offspring i'm thinking that line ended.

5)Then there is Ageon the unlikely his third son. No idea what happened to him. With him though i'm pretty sure he's got no male descendants. Since it's only a generation of two ago that he lived. Should he have any targ descendants they would have already been hinted at in the story.

6) You can go even farther back, but those sons and daughters surely mingled with the other houses.

 

[juleska]

I think the most likely connection (if there is one) for Varys to the House Targaryen is as a ******* child. We know that Mad King Aerys was known for raping. Take a gander at how many bastards Robert fathered. Many of them never knew who he was, but a handful who did took a deep and almost perverse pride in their connection to the king.

Varys began his career as a street urchin, stealing and sneaking, doing things one might expect from a ******* baseborn get of a highborn lord. I certainly think it's possible that he learned of his origins (perhaps from Illyrio?) and decided to place himself in King's Landing to try and worm his way into favor with his famous family.

 

[Syphon of Oor-Tael]

Then that begs the question: What is Illyrio's angle here?

 

[Glaysher]

Isn't Varys supposed to be bald? Perhaps he isn't really and is hiding silver/gold hair. What colour are his eyes?

 

[The Imp]

Varys began his career as a street urchin, stealing and sneaking, doing things one might expect from a ******* baseborn get of a highborn lord. I certainly think it's possible that he learned of his origins (perhaps from Illyrio?) and decided to place himself in King's Landing to try and worm his way into favor with his famous family.

according to Varys. We have no idea if he tells that tale because it suits purposes or if it's true. One could even question whether or not he's a Eunuch. Again, we have only what he has told various people to rely on when trying to determine what about him (if anything) is true. Much of what he has said doesn't ring true.

 

[dragonstone]

I know what u are hinting at, it's just that in the series the weeding out of the Targaryens is well documented. So i'm guessing anyone whose last name is Targaryen besides Dany and the varys-protected Aegon are no more.

Actually that's a good point I hadn't thought of that. Robert is said to have had a visceral hatred Targaryens (which is ironic given the Baratheons originated as Targ bastards and his own father was a first cousin of King Aerys), so at the very least Targs would've had to change their last names to stay alive under Robert.

Interesting to note that Roose Bolton wanted Varys executed after Robert's rebellion. I think this man is certainly an intellectual powerhouse and were the seven Kingdoms a meritocracy it's more likely he would have been considered for warden in the North rather than Ned.

 

[dragonstone]

Isn't Varys supposed to be bald? Perhaps he isn't really and is hiding silver/gold hair. What colour are his eyes?

Yes actually that's intersting, not sure about his eyes but certain Targaryens are said not to have the family looks - like princess Rhaenys who was said to look Dornish.

 

[juleska]

according to Varys. We have no idea if he tells that tale because it suits purposes or if it's true. One could even question whether or not he's a Eunuch. Again, we have only what he has told various people to rely on when trying to determine what about him (if anything) is true. Much of what he has said doesn't ring true.

If Varys has ever revealed that much about his childhood I don't recall it. What I described was disclosed [ADWD spoilers]by Illyrio to Tyrion in ADWD and (assuming we can believe Illyrio) that was first-hand knowledge. [/spoilers]

I don't think Varys is nearly as untrustworthy as his reputation has earned. He wasn't the one who sold Ned out to Cersei, that was his little brat Sansa assisted by Littlefinger. Varys was trying to save Ned's life. He's been actively undermining Cersei's regency, which we all know is an absolute trainwreck and deserves to be undone. By maintaining his place of trust with Robert & the court he made sure he stayed informed of any threats to Aegon, Dany & Viserys, and was able to act in a way that reduced or eliminated the threat. Had Robert had his way, he would've hired a Faceless Man to kill Dany, instead he made sure they sent a bumbling poisoner and that his informant (Jorah) was able to intervene in time. He singlehandedly protected Dany's life while still appearing to be working for the Barantheons and the Lannisters, who were vigilant about punishing and exiling any Targ loyalists.

It's a shame he had to [ADWD spoilers] kill Kevan, but then Kevan IS a Lannister through and through, and he was right.....had Kevan had his way he would've restored peace to the realm and given a war-weary kingdom good cause to oppose any new challengers to the throne (why upset the apple cart).[/spoilers]

I for one believe him when he says he serves the realm. He's no Ned Stark, but his motives are infinitely more pure (by my estimation) than Littlefinger or Cersei and dozens more.