"TV Fan's" Backlash (SOME SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'George R R Martin' started by Tezz, Jun 17, 2011.

  1.  
    Tezz

    Tezz New Member

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    So it appears some TV viewers are outraged at the fact Ned was beheaded in last week's episode.....

    As a reader of the books i don't see the problem, I dont agree with the arguement TV crowd and Book crowds are completely different. It's disheartening as looking forward at some of the major events coming up in future series god knows how they will be portrayed now on TV if one characters death causes such controversy.

    article here:

    http://www.examiner.com/tv-in-new-orleans/hbo-stands-by-controversial-recent-episode-of-hit-series-game-of-thrones
  2.  
    Chaoticheart

    Chaoticheart In chaos I find truth

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    Pfft. If they hadn't killed him the series would have ended up being as bad as Legend of the Seeker (or, God forbid, Worse).
  3.  
    Vladd67

    Vladd67 Stake Holder

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    Someone needs to growup or just stick to watching safe predictable television.
  4.  
    pyan

    pyan Fortiter et recte! Staff Member

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    Who'd be a book-to-screen adaptor? Change the story and the viewers complain - stick to the story and the viewers complain...:rolleyes:
  5.  
    ctg

    ctg weaver of the unseen

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    All I'm reading in this is that the American TV audiences has been brainwashed by the Hollywood producers and the Disney protocols. *ing pathetic.
  6.  
    Daisy-Boo

    Daisy-Boo Purr-fectly crazy

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    Speaking as someone who was introduced to the books via the TV show...I cannot see how the show could've allowed Ned to live. Ned's actions had far-reaching consequences and one of those was his death. It would've been a complete cop-out to let him live. Also, I can't see any way they could incorporate an alive Ned into the rest of the series. His death was the catalyst for much of what followed.

    I like that none of the characters are safe and that any of them could die at any moment. That doesn't make me any less emotionally invested in them. In fact, I think I'm even more emotionally invested in them because I so desperately want the ones I like to live.
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    The Ace

    The Ace Aye fur Alba

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    Bunch of morons.:mad:

    OK, I'm no fan of GRRM, but there are plenty of people who are, and who'll be glued to this. They're the ones whose opinion matters.

    As for that stupid b*tch pointing out that TV and book audiences are different, she should get back to her Mills and Boon.
  8.  
    Daisy-Boo

    Daisy-Boo Purr-fectly crazy

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    That's very strong language Ace. I'm very uncomfortable with you calling this unknown woman a "stupid b*tch", simply because you don't agree with her opinion. This is a woman-friendly forum and the last thing I expected to see was a comment like yours.
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    The Ace

    The Ace Aye fur Alba

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    The last thing I expected was to have to make it.

    I shoudn't've made so much of her gender, there are people out there, of both sexes, who'd struggle to understand a Mills and Boon.

    You're right DB, calling her stupid is justified, the B-word was a bit much, sorry.
  10.  
    Daisy-Boo

    Daisy-Boo Purr-fectly crazy

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    Thanks Ace. Apology accepted.
  11.  
    Tezz

    Tezz New Member

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    LMAO best comment ever! chuckling to my self here :D
  12.  
    TK-421

    TK-421 I Do Not Sow

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    As fans of the books, we tend to forget how different Ned's death really was to the uninitiated who haven't read them.

    I like HBO and Disney. I wish they could combine the two.
  13.  
    Mesanna

    Mesanna Glad to be Geek

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    I agree with most of the comments above, especially ctg when he/she says that TV audiences have been "Disneyfied".

    I found this comment in the article particularly offensive:

    “Most of you who think this was some sort of brilliant move or something don’t understand the difference between a book audience and a TV audience,” argued EW reader Tamcamry. “TV audiences need to invest in characters."

    Is this person implying that book readers don't get emotionally invested in the characters in their favourite books? I would argue that book readers are even more invested, because reading, to me, requires a greater level of intellectualism on the part of the reader. Between visualising the characters and the settings, you construct a whole little world in your head, rather than being spoon-fed someone else's interpretation.

    Daisy-Boo, I think you've nailed it when you say "I think I'm even more emotionally invested in them because I so desperately want the ones I like to live."
  14.  
    Mesanna

    Mesanna Glad to be Geek

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  15.  
    digs

    digs Thicker than water

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    That is a great article Mesanna. This bit especially rang true:

  16.  
    Vladd67

    Vladd67 Stake Holder

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    I liked the last line
    Unfortunately with many TV viewers there is fat chance of that happening.
  17.  
    svalbard

    svalbard New Member

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    A number of my friends who have not read the books, but are avid fan's of the TV series,were gutted when Ned lost his head. Yet, they could understand it and the way the series has gone so far, it felt right to them.

    The downside is that I am getting bombarded with questions along the lines of 'Will such and such a character make it?' None of them have threatened to leave the show.
  18.  
    Boaz

    Boaz Thaphireth!

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    Warning... A Game of Thrones and The Princess Bride SPOILERS ahead!

    Tezz, thanks for the thread. My friends and I have been debating since January whether the series will be able to survive Eddard Stark. I've wanted to talk to you all about this, but I was unwilling to start this thread without spoiling the story before episode nine.

    From the linked article from examiner.com in the OP:

    I think that the readers of the books understand very well the difference between the two.

    Personally, I've watched every episode of AGOT, LOST, Cheers, M*A*S*H (I think), Veronica Mars (admittedly, a guilty pleasure), and Life. I've seen at least half (if not almost all) of Legend of the Seeker, Spartacus: Blood and Sand, ROME, The Sopranos, True Blood, and Law and Order. And... I must have seen upwards of thirty thousand sporting events on TV.

    I understand about becoming emotionally invested in characters. But is emotional all there is? What about time? AGOT in ten episodes, including the repeated credits, total about nine hours and ten minutes. Reading AGOT takes each reader a different amount of time, but it's probably eighteen hours, on average. The investment in time is definitely more for the reader than the viewer.

    Here's an analogy: People always talk about spending qualtity time together... especially with their children. I think this is a fallacy. Mandating quality time can be done, but with irregularity. Other peoples emotions should not always be forced into another person's desires. To get quality time with loved ones, a person needs to spend a large quantity of time. Teachable moments can be created, but most times they just happen. One does not know when a child or lover will be hurting... and that time of comfort cannot just be made up later. Time investment is emotional investment. I think this can be transferred to reading versus viewing.

    After fifteen chapters out of the first fifty-nine in AGOT, all readers are invested in Eddard. We've read about his love for Catelyn. We've read of his love for his children. We've read about his loyalty to his friends. We've read of his unwillingness to sully his family name and his honor. And we've read much about his memories and dreams of his father, brother, and sister. I've not yet seen or heard mention of Lyanna on the show except for Robert's visit to her tomb. What do viewers know of "Promise me, Ned"? What do they know of the woman in the bed of blood and roses? What do viewers know about the quarrel between Eddard and Robert after the sack of King's Landing? What do they know of the Sword of the Morning, the White Bull, and Ser Oswell Whent? What do they know of Howland Reed? What do they know of Eddard's silent promises to tell Sansa and Jon about his decisions? What do they know of his faithfulness to Catelyn in turning down Cersei's sexual favors?

    And what about the Arya and Brienne POVs? These chapters specifically show the plight of the common people. These chapters show the ins and outs of family, religion, and social hierarchy in daily life. GRRM has something to say on social justice.

    So Eddard lived a good and honest life. He's probably in Westerosi heaven. But what about Littlefinger, Cersei, Tyrion, Sansa, the Hound, Arya, Dany, Bran and Jaime? What of their ambitions and desires? Will Eddard's children suffer or succeed? Will they follow in his honorable footsteps or become what he despised in their desire to avenge him? Will any of Eddard's enemies be inspired by his life and death enough to renounce their wicked ways? Is redemption possible?

    And for those who loved Eddard, I must ask, What about Robb? What about Jon? How will his teenage sons trained to command soldiers deal with his murder? Aren't their stories compelling?

    Personally, I feel that reading requires more of my attention, imagination, and memory than viewing the television. The only way I have a greater investment in the show is monetary. A used paperback version of AGOT is $5 while three months of HBO is running me around $200.

    So the readers are the "wow crowd"? Personally, I think there is much less gratuitous nudity in the books.

    So... the "mass appeal just got beheaded"? When the going gets tough, should we quit reading? All of Eddard's loved ones are now in jeopardy without him to protect them, but they must be the characters that Tamcamry doesn't "care much about". If Eddard was all the story had going for it, then I'd agree whole heartedly with Tamcamry. But really, don't the characters who manipulated and outfoxed Eddard seem interesting? Shouldn't viewers desire to see them get theirs? I think the boy from The Princess Bride had a better concept of stories than this...

    The questions are whether the viewers find the rest of the plot and characters interesting and whether they trust the author who has given them such a treat up tothis point.

    That being said, will the series survive the death of Eddard? I'm not sure.

    I'm also not sure if HBO really has intentions of finishing the series. Unless, the show's second season is a sensation, then I think that HBO will seriously think about shutting it down. HBO is in business to make money. Amen. So AGOT will not need to be a critical success, it will need to be a viewing success. If it becomes a water fountain conversation mainstay, if Matt Groenig parodies it, if tens of millions of people worldwide only have HBO for the express purpose of watching AGOT (i.e. me and my friends), then HBO will judge it to be a show worth finishing.

    Thanks for your investment of time in reading this post.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2011
  19.  
    severence25

    severence25 New Member

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    I must admit when I first read these books I was totally shocked when Ned had his head cut off. Like some one else said, I'm used to the hero/good guy being saved in just about every book/TV show/movie I've ever read or watched. Martin has proved time again that no character is safe in his books (Imagine the reaction there is going to be if HBO make it as far as a certain unconventional wedding!) and seems to kill them with joyful abandon. He is one of the few authors that I've ever read that is brave enough to kill the main players in his books, be they good or bad. Which if I'm honest makes it more enjoyable and unpredictable and possibly more lifelike. Life can be a bit cr*p and the good guy doesn't always come out smelling of roses and will often get trampled on.

    As far as the series is concerned I hope people that have never read the books don't switch off because of this. I wondered how they would react to arguably the shows biggest star being killed off (Sean Bean must get tired of playing characters that get killed part way through a major fantasy franchise!).
    If people do switch off will HBO get cold feet and cancel future series? I certainly hope not.
  20.  
    Boaz

    Boaz Thaphireth!

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    Re: "TV Fan's" Backlash

    Amen. It seems some people want an animated romance of pretty pink princesses riding prancing ponies in Paris where everyone lives happily ever after. Ah, the joys of soma... or burying one's head in the sand.

    Really, I don't know anyone, reader or viewer, who was not shocked when Eddard died. He was the primary protagonist. Seriously, who kills off their main character in the first book of a series? But that very action boldly announced that GRRM is in full author-ity of the story. Eddard's death tells us that GRRM will be taking us down rarely trodden paths... that the world is a deceptive place... that wolves can be killed as easily as ostriches.

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