1.07 Game of Thrones - You Win or You Die

[Red 13]

It was a Stag?! I thought it was a hippo! ;p

 

[Moony]

I'm really enjoying the show.I've only just started to read the book for the first time.I can already tell that I am not going to like the show as much as the books from the little I've read.
As for this episode,I enjoyed watching Tywin skin the stag.I was fascinated by it and kept wondering if that was real or not.
I can understand the discussion about the sex scene.This one in particular I thought was a bit too much as well.I get that it shows Littlefinger better along with his talk but I would have liked it better if the girls were a bit more in the background than they were or if the scene just didn't last as long.It seemed to drag by.All of the other sex scenes were done pretty quickly and didn't bother me.This is the first one that lasted a long time and it bored me more than it bothered me.I almost skipped over it but didn't because I would have missed things being said that I didn't already know.
I absolutely can't stand the Lannisters so far.
Of course the Starks are my favourites and I was in tears at the end with what happened to Ned.I don't cry easily and mostly its just when I am extremely mad.I wanted to jump through the screen and kill Cersei.I also wanted to slap Ned for not doing things he should have done before Robert died.He is a good man though but I can already see he isn't going to be around for a whole lot longer and I will miss him.
I was also glad to see Drogo doing more than sitting or standing with that same expression on his face.Dany are Drogo are the same with those expressions but hopefully that has changed.It seems that way.I'm interested in their storyline more now as well especially now that the actors playing the parts seem alive now and Viserys is gone(couldn't stand him and didn't feel sorry for him at all when he got his crown) and Dany is doing more with the dragon eggs.I'm really curious about them.

Also about the direwolves,I haven't fully read the books yet but even I can tell they should be there more than they are in the show.I was expecting them to be there when Bran was in the woods myself even without reading it.I was disappointed that they weren't.

 

[Boaz]

Mouse, I thought mayhaps (the whole trick is to say mayhaps without anyone noticing) that you were asking if people would have preferred men insted women in that scene. I've read too much into your question and revealed myself as a puritan... and mayhaps Lord of the Crossing.

Moony, Welcome! I love the fact that the show has gotten you into the books, but I cannot warn you strongly enough to beware that reading these threads can seriously ruin the story for you. I cannot say more than this without spoiling the story for you.

You say you like the books better? Good. There are layers and layers of characters, plots, and relationships that the show cannot cover. But the most important parts are probably the dreams and memories of Eddard...

You hate the Lannisters? Good. They're bad. Just think of Jaime's sins to this point. He assassinated the last king. He's commited high treason by sleeping with Robert's queen. He's commited high treason fathering three children upon the Queen. He's pretended the children are Robert's. And the kicker is that the Queen is his own sister! He attempted to murder Bran Stark by defenestration. He broke the King's Peace by waylaying Lord Stark and murdering his men in the street.

Now think of how the last episode started... Jaime's father was teaching him how to be even more ruthless. Wow!!!!

Which brings me to that scene... I watched it again last night. Yes, I know that I said (on the first page of this thread) that Tywin is supposed to be bald, but Charles Dance looks exactly how GRRM should have described him. I like his look and his intensity.

When I first watched the scene, I thought Tywin would never ever butcher his own kill. I'm sure he's an accomplished hunter, but Lord Tywin, Lord of Casterly Rock, Warden of the West, former Hand of the King, Goodfather to King Robert, the wealthiest man in the Seven Kingdoms, patrician of the most powerful of the pure Andal family, the staunchest believer in proper breeding would never butcher his own deer. But upon my second viewing, I made the connection of the Lion butchering the Stag... House Lannister making a bloody mess of House Baratheon. And I also thought Tywin was preparing for war by reaccustoming himself to having bloody hands.

And speaking of bald characters portrayed by actors with hair... I love the look of Jorah. Iain Glen plays him well... and again, he's not how GRRM described, but he's how GRRM should have described him. Is that blasphemous?

 

[svalbard]

Yes, the scene was to show Middlefinger's motivation... power. They could have showed only Baelish, with the women off screen, teaching them what he wanted. It would have been a chance to see another facial expression from him. His first and only expression has been aloofness until his smile from betraying Eddard. I wonder if the director has ordered Aiden Gillen to do this or if he has any acting chops at all. Middlefinger is a wonderful character and they've done nothing with him... That scene and his confession to Roz was a lost chance to really get glimpse past the exterior.

We all view things differently. I think Gillen is playing Littlefinger to the tee. I remember from the first book I was unsure about his character up until the point he betrayed Ned. There were hints, but as a reader I could not be certain. The way Gillen has underplayed Littlefinger to this point in the show reflects this. The scene with Roz revealed a truly rotten core and the smile at end of the episode perfected it.

I agree about Glen's potrayal of Mormont.

All debates aside the series is excellent and I love watching these characters come to life on the screen

 

[Culhwch]

Speaking as someone who hasn't seen any of these scenes....

I don't know (obviously) how Littlefinger broached the subject of Cat, etc., but is there a chance that he felt able to unburden himself to Ros becuase he knew who she was? I'm not necessarily saying that he's always employed her. He may believe she is one of Varys's little birds; he may be telling Ros what he wants Varys to hear, giving a good reason (true or otherwise) for why he'll act the way he will (and whose side he'll be on) when events come to a head.

My other issue with this scene was something that you have touched upon here. Littlefinger warns Ned not to trust anybody, even himself, and yet after having just met this strange, foreign prostitute, unburdens himself upon her and another of his whores. He may be satisfied that his girl was in his pocket, but Roz could be anyone - she could work for the Starks (unlikely), could already work for the Spider (more likely), could be recruited by the Spider (also more likely), or could just casually spread the word until one of the Spider's little birds heard and tweeted it back to him. That doesn't make any kind of sense to me. Information is power, and Littlefinger is one of the few people in this game that truly understands that. Ned's an idiot? Yeah, but Littlefinger isn't much better, judging by this scene.

 

[Ursa major]

I can't really comment, not having heard what he said in that scene**, but my natural tendency is not to believe a word he says, unless it's "Don't trust me...." I can believe that if it's more important for him to let someone know what he wants them to know, then he would tell the truth (whatever that may be). The thing is, none of us know what's really going on inside his head.






** - Given the comments about the scene's length, I'm guessing that he said quite a lot. (I hope the DVD doesn't take too long to appear in the shops. *grumbles to himself* )

 

[Boaz]

Cul, I really like the idea of Baelish testing Roz to see if she's an informant. That's how Joffrey's Hand caught the person syping for Cersei.

[Characters not named in order to preserve the virgin minds of HBO viewers like Moony and Red.]

 

[Culhwch]

The scene went for about six minutes, all told, so about ten percent of an episode that included such lesser events as an attempt on Dany's life, Drogo's conviction to conquer the Seven Kingdoms, Jon and his brother's elevation to men of the Night's Watch, Jon's allocation to the stewards, Ghost's discovery of the dead ranger, the introduction of Tywin Lannister and his massing army, the death of King Robert, and the betrayal and capture of Ned.

From memory nothing Littlefinger told us was untrue - well, only that Ned was a greater or more magnificent man than Brandon Stark, supposedly. Granted, he may have known that Varys already knew all he said, but it was still an awful lot of insightful information to impart to a stranger and new employee.

 

[Tansy]

2 new employees, there was another whore with Roz lest you forget

It felt longer than 6 minutes, Robert's death and succession had about 2 in comparison

 

[Culhwch]

2 new employees, there was another whore with Roz lest you forget

I don't think any of us are going to forget in a hurry.

 

[digs]

I think the fact that the girl on girl was just thrown in for ratings is most clearly demonstrated by the fact that Littlefinger was supposedly trying to teach them how to please/fool men - in which case, why not have them practise with men? I'm sure there'd be no shortage of volunteers.

I'm all for depictions of gay sex/love on TV, but in this case it just didn't make much sense. Then again, I can't say it bothered me all too much either. At least it made for a good metaphor.

 

[Tansy]

Maybe they were trying to play down the Renly/Loras scene lol, balance the scales so to speak

 

[svalbard]

I don't think any of us are going to forget in a hurry.

Forgot it already. Real life is so much better