Game of Thrones HBO - Disappointments, discuss.

[Culhwch]

I think if they did the Kingsguard in pure all white, that you wouldn't like it. They would look like the stormtroopers from a certain popular movie series and they wouldn't fit very well with the gritty, dark and fantastic realism of the rest of the costumes and sets. But it is clearly different than the books.

I hadn't thought about the Kingsguard resembling stormtroopers, but maybe there is something to that. I still think they should look more distinct than they do, though. As I said in the episode thread, I miss all the pagaentry associated with knighthood that is present in the books.

The direwolves are not scary enough. They seem almost like regular dogs!

Possibly because they are regular dogs...?

On the other hand, I was happier to see less nudity in episode four. Reading the naughty bits is one thing, but viewing them in mixed company is another. Mayhaps I'm just naive... or just a prude.

I was glad of that, too. I'm watching it with my wife, and while neither of us will ever be accused of prudishness, some of those scenes were just gratuitous...

And just think of who will be introduced in next week's episode.... Aemon (he has to show up now, doesn't he?), Bronn, Brynden, Lysa, Robert, Mya, all the lords of the Vale, maybe all of Tyrion's clansmen (although ending the episode with Bronn saying, I'll stand for the dwarf." will be awesome)... Loras, Beric, Thoros, Anguy, Chataya, Alayaya, the Crones of Vaes Dothrak, the other Khals, Drogo's bloodriders mayhaps, Donal Noye, and dead Othor and Jafer.

Aemon was in episode three, talking with Tyrion and Jeor Mormont. And I don't think all of the above are going to get a run, to be honest. Anguy? Seriously?

I've found myself giving my wife a bit of a running commentary as well. I'm hoping she starts reading the book soon - it's still on her bedside table. I won't need to explain so much or answer so many questions, then.

I don't know that what most of us here are doing is 'bitching'. Noting dissappointments and bitching are two different things, I feel. I still think it's a great achievement, and a fine show, and I'm glad it was made and I'm enjoying watching it, but what gets me most is the unmet potential. It's kind of how I felt about the Star Wars prequels - they had so much potential to be brilliant, but then George Lucas happened. Thankfully, Lucas is nowhere near this production, and it is far better as a result....

 

[X'Nedra]

I'm in Australia, and we haven't got the series yet, so I went and found the first episode online.
I was disappointed with the Daenyrs storyline - it seemed too rushed and there wasn't enough character development there. Whatshisface (the slimy brother) wasn't nearly slimy enough and they looked weird - they reminded me of elves!

It seemed to me that they were rushing to get to the incest and sex as quickly as poss without allowing for some character building for those who haven't read the books.

I'm going to catch up on the next few episodes and see how I feel about it then.

PS - I did like Arya, and Sean Bean is a good Ned Stark.

 

[firstfist]

The Wolves are still basically pups. Give them a few more episodes before you start in on tiny dire wolves. It sure seemed like the mother that they were found under was enormous.

As far as the sex and nudity, it seems that HBO (for most series anyway) throws in as much as possible in the season premiers and finales. Thats how it was with Rome and Deadwood, and I'm fairly sure it is just a tactic to get a larger demographic to watch.

My complaint? That I have to wait to watch the next episode. Oh, OK, you want one about the actually show? I would have to say then that Hood doesn't look like I imagined. Kind of had him pegged more as a muscle bound dude with natural strength, and not an older heavy guy with natural strength. I'm sure I'll get over it soon though

 

[Needle]

This may not be the thread for me, I find I have nothing to really b***h about! Some minor disappointments is all.

I did not like Jaime at first, but he is growing on me!

Cersei could be blonder but personally I don't think real people get any prettier than Lena!

Renly is not pretty enough!!

That is all the complaining I can come up with!

Ursa my dear, how do you stand it!!! I have always refused to watch pirated movies but I would be breaking the rules this time! I had to add $25 a month to my satellite bill to get HBO and a DVR, about $24 more a month than I can afford! Well worth the sacrifice!

 

[Eulalia]

They aren't real direwolves!?:0. I don't really mind the regular dogs, in fact I like them.

Yes, I suppose they could go for a more high fantasy, and Knightly look. But then they would have to smash it down to be true to the books. Here they didn't build it up very far and it's already pulling at the more courtly ideals by the costumes. It's probably harder to fake very nice armour, also.

Here, they have a joust, and the second (?) pass sends a big message about chivalry, the Mountain, and Ned's inquiry. (and TV budgets)

 

[The Imp]

When it's all said and done, there are very few negatives compared to the number of positives. I think that sometimes people forget that right now HBO is making money on two things- new subscribers to HBO who specifically signed on for GOT, and merchandising. If a series is successful they'll probably make all of their money back on DVD sales and more new subscribers, but at this stage in the show's lifecycle, they have to walk a fine line between spending money on everything the creative people would like to spend money on, and the accountants, who don't want them to spend an extra cent. I remember reading that this is one of the most expensive shows they've ever made, but there's a limit to how much can be spent on one episode of a show that's on ad free cable TV.

I give the overall quality of the 4 episodes a B+/A-. The only ones who can really nitpick are people who have read the books. If they maintain the exact level of quality in the rest of the series that they have achieved so far i'll be delighted.

I'll just put on my "old man yelling at lawn signs hat" now and voice my displeasure with the general level of negativity that's rampant on the interwebs. 99 things can be right with something, but all that gets posted about is the one thing that's wrong. the glass isn't half full or half empty, it's bone dry with mold growing at the bottom of it.

it's really depressing. Sometimes it's really better to stfu and just enjoy what there is to enjoy. I direct this to no one in particular and everyone in general.

/rant off

 

[Eulalia]

I'd give the series an "A". It's better than I expected, but I thought I'd probably like it anyway. The thread asked for diappointments, so I have some nitpicks. Cheer up, Imp.

Speaking of Imps. I think Peter Dinklage is one of my favourites, and he looks better than I imagined. (nitpick, hair is not silvery blonde but it matches the other Lannisters) He could have been a disaster.

 

[Mouse]

I'd give it an A too. Really enjoying it, probably more so because I remember so little of the books so it's like a wee refresher.

I'm over Jaime (actually quite like him now). But Renly is still a big disappointment for me. He was one of my favourites. I'm hoping Loras is going to be super pretty to make up for it.

 

[J Riff]

Loras is gonna be awesome! Can't wait! Woop!

 

[Memnoch]

Moved to the GRRM board as really this is all about bitching from the readers, rather than new viewers.

Really, I can't understand why anyone would be so petty as to want a dedicated thread bitching about a major fantasy TV series, solely on the grounds that the HBO production does not exactly match their imagination.

I think it's important to focus on the positives and any negative perceptions be posted in the relevant episode thread. After all, we bitch and moan about there being no good sff on TV, and then when someone takes a risk to bring it - and does it well - there are continued complaints.

Maybe that's one reason why most stations don't bother, and that we're best left with our books and TV best kept to just soaps and reality programmes?

Perhaps I'm just tired though.

I absolutely love the show and it's improving by the episode, I but wanted a dedicated area to vent/comment on various different things that don't work or are plain wrong, that is all. I understand the move to the GRRM thread, fair enough, but it is clearly related to the show.

BUT . . . Petty Brian? Really? Having an opinion? Like I said I love all things fantasy, televised or on Film, I'm ecstatic the show was made, but I will not fall over myself to love it blindly because it is "fantasy" my views are also based on non readers views, the initial slow pace etc, lack of action early on, bar titillation etc, if I find bits that don't work I like to discuss and hear others opinions, I am not challenging others views, but healthy debate being petty in a specific thread? I'm disappointed in that attitude.

 

[Pedro Del Mar]

My wife's enjoying it and she normally hates this kind of thing. I've watched each episode twice and I'm really enjoying it. I like the sets and the choice of actor for the characters. There's a few comments on here that think Lena Heady isn't right for Cersei - I wholeheartedly disagree. I think Lena Heady is beautiful and is a great actress doing a fine job so far.

Have to agree the dragon eggs are a little disappointing though! lol

Crooksy

 

[Brian G Turner]

Was not intended as a personal attack, more a concern of something I've seen across a number of different boards here.

1. People complain there are not enough sff shows, and the fact that any that are made are usually cancelled

2. When something is done with real quality, for mature audiences, people complain that it doesn't match their expectations

The two do not reconcile.

Of course, with a book series the readers are always going to see it redacted and edited for TV, and make comment on it, and I suspect with Game of Thrones this will become more of an issue in later seasons.

I would just personally prefer to see more support, and more focus on the positives, so that production companies would be more inclined to expect support when they take risks to bring us something of what we want - intelligent imaginative storytelling.

 

[Ursa major]

And Game of Thrones does seem to be attracting people who wouldn't normally watch Fantasy, while in the UK we usually get Sci-fi (I can't call it SF), like Outcasts and that silly submarine rubbish from last year, whose lame-brained plots, ridiculous characters and nonsense "science" drive away what should be their core audience. Small deviations from the source books seem to be a small price to pay for decent Fantasy drama.



* Goes back to waiting for the DVDs. *

 

[Tonk Rivers]

Our imagination has an unlimited budget. HBO, on the other hand, does not.

 

[Eulalia]

@Tonk Rivers--It is known.

Also, everyone's imagination is different, thank goodness.

 

[TK-421]

One thing's for sure, GRRM has some "rabid fans" as he put it. See that interview with Joe Abercrombie.

Rich that there would ciriticism over what he calls the "small stuff" in the HBO series when he himself said that while he is a very visual writer, therefore having a mental image of everything in the books and being surprised to see the rendention on set on on screen. And having no issues with that.

Moving on.

 

[The Imp]

And Game of Thrones does seem to be attracting people who wouldn't normally watch Fantasy, while in the UK we usually get Sci-fi (I can't call it SF), like Outcasts and that silly submarine rubbish from last year, whose lame-brained plots, ridiculous characters and nonsense "science" drive away what should be their core audience. Small deviations from the source books seem to be a small price to pay for decent Fantasy drama.



* Goes back to waiting for the DVDs. *

HBO is now doing a thing called HBO GO which allows you to watch things free online if you are a subscriber. I wonder if you can subscribe directly with HBO if your cable network doesn't offer it, etc.?

 

[The Imp]

One thing's for sure, GRRM has some "rabid fans" as he put it. See that interview with Joe Abercrombie.

Rich that there would ciriticism over what he calls the "small stuff" in the HBO series when he himself said that while he is a very visual writer, therefore having a mental image of everything in the books and being surprised to see the rendention on set on on screen. And having no issues with that.

Moving on.

As i said previously, I think they got most stuff right, and many things they didn't might have been impossible due to budgetary constraints. If money wasn't an issue, there are actors that could have been cast who might have been better than some that are in the show, or looked more the part, you money is an issue, and in the end most of the actors are doing a great job, and look fine (or we can get used to them if they don't quite look right).

I think it's safe to say that no matter what the complaints, large or small, the vast majority of readers would rather have this show available to watch than not, and it's probably also fair to say that the series is reaching a wider audience than some of us might have thought possible. I never would have believed my wife would watch it and get hooked, and she's probably fairly typical of the cross section of the population that only reads "fiction for the sensitive" (for lack of a better way of describing what she likes).

 

[Wiggum]

This is show is seven kinds of awesome wrapped in a tortilla, deep fried, and covered in cinnamon sugar.

I'm in the same boat as Boaz, figuratively speaking, in that I niggled Lord of the Rings to such a point that I couldn't enjoy them. I still haven't seen Return of the King all the way through. Not going to do that with this.

My only real issue is the underdevelopment of the Stark children/direwolf connection.

The first time I read Ned killing Lady just about broke my heart.

In the show it's only value, and I'm taking this from watching it with people who hadn't read the books, is "that queen is a b----"

Outside of that, it's pretty much a fantasy churro of love.

 

[Lofwyr]

My only real issue is the underdevelopment of the Stark children/direwolf connection.

The first time I read Ned killing Lady just about broke my heart.

In the show it's only value, and I'm taking this from watching it with people who hadn't read the books, is "that queen is a b----"

I'm right there with ya on this subject. It's the one non-nit picky issue I'm having with the show so far. Their failure to really drive the Stark/direwolf connection home immediately might have detrimental impact on numerous scenes still to come. Sadly, I don't really see what they could have done better. It seems the major issue is that working with animals is tough and expensive...

I'm hoping a lot of my fear is from having read the books. Hopefully people who haven't read the books are getting an idea of the proper value of the wolves with what they're being shown. But yeah...the majority of response to Lady's death that I've seen/heard was along the lines of "screw Cersei".

Any other complaints I have amount to nitpicks that will have little effect on my enjoyment. Eye color issues (though after seeing Ghost I can understand the decision to not use colored contacts), slightly different looks for various characters (Syrio...and GREGOR was WAY bigger in my imagination), underwhelming performances from Littlefinger and a few others. But those are all fairly small issues that will be easy enough to get over.

My complaint? That I have to wait to watch the next episode. Oh, OK, you want one about the actually show? I would have to say then that Hood doesn't look like I imagined. Kind of had him pegged more as a muscle bound dude with natural strength, and not an older heavy guy with natural strength. I'm sure I'll get over it soon though

Who is Hood? Are you talking about Ilyn Payne by using a Malazan reference?

edit: oh...one more random issue from the most recent episode. I wish they'd taken two minutes to show Cat arriving at the Inn for the final scene. Maybe have a snippet of conversation to pin down their location. It grounds the impending confrontation to a real location. As it is the scene doesn't seem to fit previous events, just seems to be there to move things forward.