Wise Man's Fear (Contains Spoilers)

[Boneman]

And as a late post-script: there's a part where Chronicler (I think) speaks of the cobbles at the University that cannot be repaired and it's where 'you killed him'. Much as I'd like it to be Ambrose, we know that Kvothe would be burned at the stake if he did that, so I'm sortof assuming he keeps using Cinder's real name until he comes for him...

And whatif Kvothe's troupe were all killed, not because of his father's song, but because the Lackless clan have a lot to do with the Chandrian - the box, the rhymes, the door? It could be that the song bit is the biggest red herring yet, just the sort of thing Pat would love, messing with our minds...

Only a couple of years to wait, to find out. It better not be four, or I'll have to move to Wisconsin and become a beta reader for him!

 

[Kingkiller]

I hadn't remembered the, "I trouped, traveled, loved, lost, trusted and was betrayed." That makes me think that Denna doesn't die but that she betrayed him, which would line up with the idea that her patron is a chandrian. That makes even more sense because Master Ash and her are searching for stories about the Chandrian. That could likely be a way that the Chandrian and the Amyr destroyed information about themselves over time.

A lot of you seem to think that Bredon is a Chandrian. Part of me really doesn't believe that this is true. When Cinder reappeared he was fighting against kvothe and causing problems in the world. When I read the parts with Kvothe and Bredon he played a mentor role. I just don't see a chandrian saying (and I'm paraphrasing without double-checking, so it might be a little off), "It doesn't matter if you win or lose, just that you play a beautiful game." That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Rothfuss decided to play a mean joke on us with Bredon's betrayal.

Kvothe's lack of his previous power is intriguing. Bast seemed surprised in the first book when Kvothe killed as many scrael as he did (BTW the poem from the original post makes me think that 'the door that holds the flood' has something to do with releasing the scrael.) He bruised Bast's arm just by grabbing him (who is powerful). He also kicked the crap out of the first guard and then got beat up by the second. Afterwards he says something to the chronicler like, 'I forgot who I was for a second', made me think he let himself get beat up. I do not believe that he purposely didn't use sympathy when the dead mercenary guy came in. The reaction by Bast afterwards makes me think that. I think that 'the betrayal' or something else in his past created a mental barrier. He exhibited the same sort of idea after his parents death. He still seems to possess his physical prowess but not mental. Also, at the end he couldn't open the box that he obviously made himself (he talks about his ingenuity in making it when he lets Bast try to open it). Someone said that his power is in the box, in a sense I think that is correct. I think that he tried to become Kvothe again at the end of the book when he tried to open it, but couldn't get past the mental barrier that he created. Regardless of what significance the box has, it is likely going to play a key role in the final book.

Since this post is pretty long-winded I am going to bold my question so that hopefully people answer it. The Ctheah mentioned something about the Amyr with the maer. He made it sound like the maer either had an amyr around him or had met one. I wonder if any of you noticed a subtle connection that I didn't, because as I read Kvothe's time with maer I couldn't notice anything.

 

[Breeder18]

The new sword hmmm... thought about that for a bit. He mentions that they named the sword wrongly, perhaps it is the same sword with a new scabbard? Or the sword may have been remade by himself to be properly named? Although it definitely will be addressed in the next book, no doubt in my mind.

 

[G-Zeus]

Oh please, don't tell me I'm the only one who knows who cinder is? In fact cinder and Mister Ash are the same person, Bredon who is a chandrian and Denna's Patron. Remember the rumer about him doing strange thing in is house, his aspect as well, white hair, well dress extreamly intelligent, a man who likes beautyful games like Denna's patron who hits her just to see how long befor she run away and what he will have to do to lure her in again. Beside Denna's patron shows her secret magic that student of the university know nothing about, she learned from him a forgotten language (Yllish), read a book about a war 5000 years old, while I remember Skarpi saying in the NOTW that old the book about Ergen have all crumble into dust, Kvothe said when he saw the chief of the bandits that he looks like someone he knows, that had nothing to do with cinder he had seen many years ago but with Bredon he had seen a moth or so before that. I could say many other things about it, I just hope Rothfuss finishes it asap, in a year or so, so we can move on

 

[G-Zeus]

I hadn't remembered the, "I trouped, traveled, loved, lost, trusted and was betrayed." That makes me think that Denna doesn't die but that she betrayed him, which would line up with the idea that her patron is a chandrian. That makes even more sense because Master Ash and her are searching for stories about the Chandrian. That could likely be a way that the Chandrian and the Amyr destroyed information about themselves over time.

A lot of you seem to think that Bredon is a Chandrian. Part of me really doesn't believe that this is true. When Cinder reappeared he was fighting against kvothe and causing problems in the world. When I read the parts with Kvothe and Bredon he played a mentor role. I just don't see a chandrian saying (and I'm paraphrasing without double-checking, so it might be a little off), "It doesn't matter if you win or lose, just that you play a beautiful game." That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if Rothfuss decided to play a mean joke on us with Bredon's betrayal.

Kvothe's lack of his previous power is intriguing. Bast seemed surprised in the first book when Kvothe killed as many scrael as he did (BTW the poem from the original post makes me think that 'the door that holds the flood' has something to do with releasing the scrael.) He bruised Bast's arm just by grabbing him (who is powerful). He also kicked the crap out of the first guard and then got beat up by the second. Afterwards he says something to the chronicler like, 'I forgot who I was for a second', made me think he let himself get beat up. I do not believe that he purposely didn't use sympathy when the dead mercenary guy came in. The reaction by Bast afterwards makes me think that. I think that 'the betrayal' or something else in his past created a mental barrier. He exhibited the same sort of idea after his parents death. He still seems to possess his physical prowess but not mental. Also, at the end he couldn't open the box that he obviously made himself (he talks about his ingenuity in making it when he lets Bast try to open it). Someone said that his power is in the box, in a sense I think that is correct. I think that he tried to become Kvothe again at the end of the book when he tried to open it, but couldn't get past the mental barrier that he created. Regardless of what significance the box has, it is likely going to play a key role in the final book.

Since this post is pretty long-winded I am going to bold my question so that hopefully people answer it. The Ctheah mentioned something about the Amyr with the maer. He made it sound like the maer either had an amyr around him or had met one. I wonder if any of you noticed a subtle connection that I didn't, because as I read Kvothe's time with maer I couldn't notice anything.

I guess the Amyr is his mad General, remember what the Maer said about sending him solve the problem of the bandits "He would probably burn the whole thing down" understanding killing civilians in the prosses, does it not ring a bell "for the greater good". People willing to kill innocent to reach their goal. Beside I think you misunderstood Bredon, he didn't mean he would accept loosing, just that he liked the challenge. When the Ctheah said Denna patron wanted to see how long she would endure the bitting before she leave and what he will need to do to lure her in again, that's sound like the beautiful game he was talking about, and it is cruel too. So I really think that Bredon is a chandrian and Denna's patron, he wasn't really a mentor to kvothe, he was just playing a beautyful court game, to see who the new Maer's protege was.

 

[Boneman]

Move on? I don't want to move on, I want more... and more...

But the physical description of cinder's eyes is so distinctive, and not mentioned again in any of the characters... yet.

And don't forget that Bast says, re Denna; "I saw her too. Once," and Kvothe says "You have, haven't you?" So I very much doubt she is dead, just a betrayer....

Any ideas on who the princess will be that Kvothe steals back from sleeping barrow kings? I do hope it isn't Denna, she doesn't deserve it.

And don't forget also, that Chronicler thinks about the story he heard of Kvothe, that he tricked a demon to get his heart's desire and when it rested in his hand he was forced to fight an angel to keep it. 'I believe it, Chronicler found himself thinking. Before it was just a story, but now I can believe it. This is the face of a man who has killed an angel.

His heart's desire has to be a woman, surely?

 

[Kingkiller]

I guess the Amyr is his mad General, remember what the Maer said about sending him solve the problem of the bandits "He would probably burn the whole thing down" understanding killing civilians in the prosses, does it not ring a bell "for the greater good". People willing to kill innocent to reach their goal. Beside I think you misunderstood Bredon, he didn't mean he would accept loosing, just that he liked the challenge. When the Ctheah said Denna patron wanted to see how long she would endure the bitting before she leave and what he will need to do to lure her in again, that's sound like the beautiful game he was talking about, and it is cruel too. So I really think that Bredon is a chandrian and Denna's patron, he wasn't really a mentor to kvothe, he was just playing a beautyful court game, to see who the new Maer's protege was.

I think you are right with the mad general idea. I rushed through the book, but I till can't believe I missed those obvious clues when I was looking for them. I guess I will have to reread the Bredon sections so that I can tell. the impression I said before was based off pretty much just skimming through the book.

 

[Boneman]

I think you are right with the mad general idea. I rushed through the book, but I still can't believe I missed those obvious clues when I was looking for them. I guess I will have to reread the Bredon sections so that I can tell. the impression I said before was based off pretty much just skimming through the book.

Yeah, I find by the 7th or 8th read-through, that I'm starting to get it all... I'll have to redo that section again. Just masterful writing, that we concentrate on our hero without questioning his motives, and the whys and wherefores, and the story washes over us. Doncha just love a really good 'reveal' that you'd never even dreamed of?

And the king is a chandrian - that's one of 'em... it's the kingkiller chronicles...

 

[Boneman]

Here's a thought - whatif Denna is chandrian...?

Let's face it, they killed all of Kvothe's troupe because his father was writing a song about them, they slaughtered the whole Mauthen wedding party because they dug up a vase with their representations on it. Would they really want to leave a boy alive who'd actually seen them in the flesh?? No way...

Maybe that's why she disappears all the time, and maybe he can't bed her because she has a tattoo of a broken sword, or the Black Widow effect - killing their mates after conjoining - maybe she's being beaten because she's been told to kill him, and she's fallen in love...

Maybe I shouldn't eat strong cheese before going to bed...

 

[Heather Myst]

I don't have any answers but I did want to say how much I enjoyed this book and how sad I was to see it end. I am really looking forward to see where Patrick takes us next.

 

[Kingkiller]

Here's a thought - whatif Denna is chandrian...?

Let's face it, they killed all of Kvothe's troupe because his father was writing a song about them, they slaughtered the whole Mauthen wedding party because they dug up a vase with their representations on it. Would they really want to leave a boy alive who'd actually seen them in the flesh?? No way...

Maybe that's why she disappears all the time, and maybe he can't bed her because she has a tattoo of a broken sword, or the Black Widow effect - killing their mates after conjoining - maybe she's being beaten because she's been told to kill him, and she's fallen in love...

Maybe I shouldn't eat strong cheese before going to bed...

Haha I agree with a lot of what you have said but Denna is probably not a Chandrian. The Ctheah probably would have said something or Denna probably would have killed him the moment he started talking about the chandrian.

 

[IlliferThePenniless]

And the king is a chandrian - that's one of 'em... it's the kingkiller chronicles...

I wonder if the king is even a king. Kvothe's whole story is kind of about how the stories about him are blown out of proportion. He didn't burn down the town of Trabon, he didn't call lighting to blind the muggers, etc etc etc. For all that he's a legendary her, thus far his story has been pretty prosaic. Mostly he goes to school and is too curious for his own good. On some level, the series seems to be about how stories develop and grow over time.

I wonder if the whole "King Killer Chronicles" isn't a giant piece of misdirection...

 

[Corn! Corn! Corn!]

I haven't yet read this thread, as I've just finished the "Interlude" chapter where Bast is upset after Kvothe's telling of his meeting with the Cthaeh.

How do things go from here?

Better? Worse? More of the same?

I have a few minor ideas that I'll share when I'm finished. They may have already been mentioned.

 

[IlliferThePenniless]

More of the same I think... I found the felurian bit the draggiest part of the book, but others have mentioned what comes next as their least favorite. Your mileage may vary...

I will say, I was frustrated by how little the book advanced the ball on most of the main story lines that were introduced a million years ago in book one. It feels like there must be a ton of ground to cover in the next one... At least I'll be disappointed if there's not.

 

[Corn! Corn! Corn!]

Well, I've just finished (I think) most of Kvothe's trip to Haert. I am at the next "Interlude" which directly follows his hearing of Shehyn's story of the Rhinta. I should hopefully finish today, but as I'm getting married this weekend, I may run into unforeseen "engagements."



As of yet, I'd say the Felurian bit was the most tedious section of the book as well.

 

[Kingkiller]

A thought about his new sword, folly. When Abenthy left him in book one, the letter he gave Kvothe said, 'beware of folly'. Also, The Chronicler says something about the stones at the university still being broken, 'where he killed him'. I wonder if that has any connection to the sword and who it is he is going to kill.

 

[Corn! Corn! Corn!]

Also, The Chronicler says something about the stones at the university still being broken, 'where he killed him'. I wonder if that has any connection to the sword and who it is he is going to kill.

Surely Kvothe didn't (directly or indirectly) kill Ambrose at the University, thus "starting a war," since the Jaxis family seems to be somewhat renowned?

 

[Corn! Corn! Corn!]

A few thoughts, with more coming later:

1. The working title "Doors of Stone" will probably refer to a plethora of things, but the most obvious to me is the connection to the inaccessible "stone room" in the Archives.

Maybe this is where information regarding either the Chandrain or Amyr is kept. Maybe Kvothe somehow gains access, and this is why he is removed from the University.

2. "Seven things stand before
The entrance to the Lackless Door
One of them a ring unworn
One a word that is forsworn
One a time that must be right
One a candle without light
One a son who brings the blood
One a door that holds the flood
One a thing tight held in keeping
Then comes that which comes with sleeping"

I don't know what happens when walking through the Lackless door, but I'm pretty sure that to gain access, all seven of these things must be completed.

A. "One of them a ring unworn" is surely referring to a Namer's ring for "wind." It would likely be invisible, and was mentioned by Elodin to Kvothe when questioning how long it would take him to "make himself a ring of air." As we read earlier, on one of his hands, Kvothe once had visible rings on each of his fingers (except one), including fire, stone, and I'm not sure as to what else. Does anyone remember if it stated on what hand these rings were worn? I remember Fela receiving her "stone" ring from Elodin, and Elodin letting her know that the ring was to be placed on her left hand, as the right "means something else entirely."

B. "One a word that is forsworn" is, and I'm agreeing with someone above, probably referring to a name. I'm going to guess that it's referring to the true name of the Chandrain, which is likely "Rhinta."

C. "One a time that must be right" is probably referring to a certain cycle of the moon, since the Chandrain are supposedly of the Fae. I'm not certain of when the best time would be, as I found Felurian's moon babble somewhat confusing.

D. "One a candle without light" may refer to Kvothe himself. He probably resembles a candle what with his red hair. This is obviously a guess. Also, doesn't Haliax carry a candle without light?

E. "One a son who brings the blood" could again refer to Kvothe. I'm going to make a wild stab (with absolutely no proof whatsoever) and guess that this is referring to a vial of Chandrain blood, which is located in the Lockless box.

F. "One a door that holds the flood" could refer to the stone door in the Archives. I don't have many guesses here, nor for the next.

G. "One a thing held tight in keeping." No clue. Maybe whoever wants to enter the Lackless door must speak their true name before entering?

That's all for now, I have a few other thoughts that I'll contribute later.

 

[IlliferThePenniless]

E. "One a son who brings the blood" could again refer to Kvothe. I'm going to make a wild stab (with absolutely no proof whatsoever) and guess that this is referring to a vial of Chandrain blood, which is located in the Lockless box.

I'd bet heavily the Kvothe is the son who brings the blood. There's no way his mom wasn't the Lackless daughter who ran off with the edema right? Which makes Kvothe a Lackless scion.

 

[Corn! Corn! Corn!]

I agree, but why "the son that brings the blood"?

If being the son of a Lackless was the only stipulation, any male in the family could theoretically open (walk through?) the door.

Also, something about Denna rubs me the wrong way. Her chapters are getting excruciatingly tedious for me to read. It was cute at first, but now...something just isn't right. I have always associated "Denna" with "Denner."

Maybe that is her true name.