Wise Man's Fear (Contains Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Patrick Rothfuss' started by IlliferThePenniless, Mar 9, 2011.

  1.  
    IlliferThePenniless

    IlliferThePenniless New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    282
    So I just wanted to see what everyone is thinking about the new Rothfuss as I haven't really seen much in the way of speculation and theory mongering about this series...

    So a few disjointed thoughts to start us off, I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks. (I'm proceeding on the assumption that everyone's read the book, at least, wants to be spoiled).

    In no particular order...

    •Given the working title of the next volume is Doors of Stone I think it's probably safe to assume that we're going to spend some time on the Lackless door in the next one. I'm intrigued by the two different songs about the Lackless family we've heard so far...

    This seems to tie up with Kvothe in a few interesting ways. We know that rings are important to namers, and "a word forsworn" sounds like it could be a name. I think thinks that Kvothe's mom is the Lackless sister who ran off with the Edema Rhu which could very well make him the "son who brings the blood." One wonders what the flood being held back is, and what would happen if the door were opened.

    This all lines up kind of oddly with the other Lackless song we heard in book one, the one that Kvothe's mom chastised him for singing early in Name of the Wind...

    There's rings, words, and candles there and hey! there's that mysterious box... I'm not really sure what it all means, but I think it's interesting that the two songs have so much in common.

    (It's also interesting that the second one ends with a reference to a "ravelling," which we now know to be a slur for the Ruh, for whatever that's worth).

    •So we're two thirds of the King Killer Chronicles and we still haven't met a proper king yet. I know everyone and their brother thinks that it's going to be Ambrose, but I hope that's not the case. First off, it seems like it would take a pretty epic catastrophe for Ambrose to climb his 13 spots or whatever to throne (though, maybe if Kvothe does something that leads to the deaths of of a dozen Vintish nobles and plants Ambrose on the throne, that might be fun...).

    Do we know where the Waystone Inn is? Or, more specifically, who all is involved in the war that Kvothe feels like he's responsible for starting? That might be point us in a useful direction...

    I wonder if the King Killer moniker will prove to be at least a little ironic, with Kvothe being blamed/taking the credit for someone's death that he was only tangentially involved with.

    •Denna's mentor is on the Chandrian right? There's not really any need to question that is there?

    •Has Kvothe ever managed to open the mysterious Lackless box? I couldn't decide if he has something locked in there that he needs and can't get out now, or if he's never managed to get it open...

    That seems like enough to get things rolling, I'd love to hear what everyone else is thinking too.
  2.  
    Caledor

    Caledor New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    32
    I didnt make the connection between the ruh and kvothes mother. That makes sense though, especially when the lackless song was mentioned in the first book.

    I feel that Bredon is Denna's patron. Though Im not certain that he is one of the chandrian himself, he is probably at least working for them.
    *The "pagan rituals" hes rumored to perform lends credit to this, plus his coming and goings seem to coincide.

    The Amyr is almost guaranteed to being the key to the chandrians defeat. Without them, he's just one man against 7 mythical creatures.

    Do we know what made Kvothe lose his powers? Ive been thinking that it was Denna's death that must have snapped him and made him lose his powers.

    Have we ever seen Kvothes magic cloak or lute in the current day chapters? I have a feeling that those are hidden in that 3 lock chest and once he lost his powers he hasnt been able to open it and get to them. What would make him more depressed for a long time than not being able to play music?
  3.  
    Dornish First Sword

    Dornish First Sword New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    68
    I'm not certain Dennas "patron" has anything to do with the Chandrian. Crackpot theory here we go, what if Denna works with or for the Chandrian in hunting down information on them, it would explain her leaving all the time, and her presence at the wedding the Chandrian attacked. I recall the scriv that Kvothe met, the one who travels around and collects books could it be that Denna is something like that for the Chandrian?
    Another interesting thing whilst its not his real name her patron they agreed to call him Mr Ash, that reminds me of Cinder which we know is the name of one of the Chanrian.

    Anyone have any theories on why Kvothe seems to have "lost his powers" ? Im willing to bet it has someting to do with his Name his True Name he gave it up or changed it or something like that. Remember Elodins reaction when Kvothe asks about someone changing their name? His reaction seems good enough evidence to me that it can be done, and that doing so would have disastrous consequences.

    The trunk in Kvothes room anyone got any ideas about it? It seems to have some similarities to the Lackless heirloom.
  4.  
    Caledor

    Caledor New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    32
    You seem to tie Denna into working for the Chandrian for the same reasons that I would argue that her patron was working either for the Chandrian or against them. It was the patron who asked Denna to meet him at the wedding, so he was looking for something and the chandrian were there as well. Also his violent behavior towards her could be construed as evil, which would argue towards being one of or with the chandrian, but we all know you dont have to be an evil mythical monster to do evil things like that so he could just be a normal bastard. Most of all his secrecy about everything makes it seem extremely likely that he's looking for chandrian information, either to help them or to work against them. It just makes more sense that she is working on his behalf. She definitely could be looking for information about the Chandrian while travelling; learning that knot language and writing that song both seem to indicate a knowledge in an area that few besides kvothe seem to know anything about.

    I still believe that Bredon is Denna's patron. Little things throughout the story seemed to steer me in this direction. Though at this point, neither one knows that they're connected through Denna since she's said that she never mentioned kvothe to her patron. This is more of intuition than anything else though.

    The "mr ash" nickname for her patron was something that kvothe came up with himself, knowing nothing about him. Though I could see the author giving that hint with it being rationalized by kvothe's naming ability. Cinder also is noted as being violent and has no compunctions against abusing women. Denna's refusal to tell kvothe who her patron is could be her attempt to protect him.

    Your theory about him changing his name is a good one. I remember that passage where Elodin said that sticking in my mind as well. This may have been something that kvothe was forced to do if say the chandrian or someone had found out his true name and then had power over him.

    I've always thought of his trunk as something that he made himself and not the lackless heirloom. With his artificer skills its definitely something that he probably could make himself.
  5.  
    IlliferThePenniless

    IlliferThePenniless New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    282
    It's by no means conclusive, but I thought it was interesting that Kvothe swore "by his name and power" not to go looking for Denna's patron. Now he's changed his name and doesn't seem to have any power.

    Although, I'm not all together certain that's true. I wasn't sure if he could have taken the bandits that tried to rob him and didn't want to blow his cover, or if he's not able to fight like that anymore... He was able to destroy all those Skraeling at the beginning of the first book, so he's not totally gone. The only real tangible evidence we have that he's lost his power was when he couldn't light the demon (or whatever it was) on fire at the end of book one. But that might be explained away by him not wanting to blow his cover. I guess we'll see, he seems pretty far gone, but I'm not totally convinced he's not playing possum.

    I didn't get the impression Denna is dead. Bast mentions having seen her in the first book and that didn't strike me as some great tragic story... but maybe I misread that.

    Bredon as Denna's patron did occur to me. I had it in my head for some reason that the timing couldn't work out. That he was spending time with Kvothe as some point Denna was with her patron... but now that I think about it, I don't think that's right. So yeah, that's a definite possibility.

    We never really got a real sense of where Bredon fit in the firmament of Vintish society did we? I wonder if he could be the titular dead king?

    Nice catch on Mr Ash/Cinder I hadn't thought of that, but that seems unlikely to be a coincidence...
  6.  
    IlliferThePenniless

    IlliferThePenniless New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    282
    if it's not too lame to quote myself...

    It occurs to me that the Ctheah seemed to be pushing Kvothe pretty hard about Denna's patron. If it's pushing for the most disastrous possible outcome, maybe going after the patron really is at the root of Kvothe's current problems...
  7.  
    Caledor

    Caledor New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    32
    Actually I reread that section because I thought that it had mentioned something about who Denna's patron is, but all it really does is confirm that Denna's patron abuses her. Which before in book one, we learned that he had hit her that once, but now we know its much more serious and a reoccurring incident.

    Where's the petition form I can sign to get Patrick Rothfuss his own forum?
  8.  
    Dornish First Sword

    Dornish First Sword New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    68
    The focus on Names in the books got me thinking Mr Rothfuss is far to good of a writer and absorbed in the tale himself for the names of characters to not bear a significance. With this in mind and the fact that names having a meaning is almost spelled out to us with Kvothe taking the name Kote, the saying told to him after the fire in fishery by Master Kilvin is "Chan Vaen edan Kote" expect disaster every seven years.

    Denna changes her name for everyone it seems except Kvothe is intriguing, lets look closer at the name it bears a big resemblance to another word in the story "denner" which is the highly addictive euphoria inducing drug. The effects of it seem to have a more than passing resemblance to the way in which Denna effects the mood and actions of Kvothe.

    After a little bit of research on some other names in the books I found that Hemme is Norwegian for bar and not the kind you drink at but bar as in hamper or inhibit, exactly what Master Hemme seeks to do to Kvothe at the University.
    Could Kilvin be a reference to kelvin the measure of temperature used in science?
    Mandrag may also be a shortened version of mandragora which is the root of the Mandrake a plant often associated with magical properties and alchemy.

    That's about all I've got at the moment I'm sure ill come up with some more though.
  9.  
    Caledor

    Caledor New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    32
    Usually I would say that you're reaching, but I think you hit the nail on the head with this author. He would definitely do something like that with his characters names. I've always thought "Mandragon" when I read Mandrag's name, but it has the same meaning as far as referring to the Mandrake root. Do you really think he would use a Norwegian word though? Though "Hemme" brings to mind "to hem". I'll have to keep an eye out the next time I do a reread. Thanks for pointing that out.
  10.  
    Dornish First Sword

    Dornish First Sword New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    68
    I would question the idea of "intentionally" choosing a Norwegian word it may have just been a happy coincidence however the newest tidbit that I found is the word Deoch is the Irish word for "a drink". Considering that the character Deoch is a bartender I find that connection a little harder to write of as a happy coincidence.
  11.  
    Breeder18

    Breeder18 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    The fact that names have meaning in the book got me thinking. On the whole I agree with the names you have mentioned thus far. I decided to take a look at a few...

    Fela...Polish...Lucky (this name fits like a glove)

    I couldn't find as good a fit with Sim and Wil, but I still feel there is definitely a connection with names.


    Does anyone else feel sad at the fact that Kote (modern day Kvothe) is largely helpless?

    I also just remembered that he hasn't lost all his powers, in the first book he stopped Bast in mid air from attacking the Chronicler.
  12.  
    Dornish First Sword

    Dornish First Sword New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    68
    Nice catch on Fela the more names fit the more it seems intentional to me.
  13.  
    Caledor

    Caledor New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    32
    This is just from memory, and its been a while, but didnt he also pick up and carry his chest in the first book? Also, those scraelings couldnt have been that easy to handle. I think he lost his powers and even his strength but its been a gradual thing that he knew was going to happen. If you read the scene in the second book where he tries to open the chest, you get the sense that he was struggling with the final loss of all of his power and strength.
  14.  
    IlliferThePenniless

    IlliferThePenniless New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    282
    I think the evidence that "Kote" is totally powerless tends to get way overstated. I got the distinct impression that he made a choice to let the brigands kick the crap out of him, the better to keep his cover intact. Likewise, he might have failed to light the demon on fire when it attacked his inn, or he might have made the choice that starting a sympathetic fire would raise too many questions about himself...

    He did manage to take down the skraelings on his own, and I definitely got the distinct sense that if Bast and Chronicler hadn't backed down from their fight, Kvothe would have put a quick end to it. Don't we have to at least consider that Kvothe is just maintaining his cover, maybe trying to set a trap of someone or something... ?
  15.  
    IlliferThePenniless

    IlliferThePenniless New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    282
    Does anybody have any thoughts on where his Adem sword has gone. The one hanging on his wall doesn't match the description of the one we've be introduced to...
  16.  
    Dornish First Sword

    Dornish First Sword New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    68
    There are a few potential answers I have to what happened to his Adem sword. The simplest is that he returned it to the school, in order to bolster the cover of him dissapearing, lower the chance of being recognised by an Adem mercenary as well. Or perhaps he still has the sword and it could be in the chest. Or a third options is that he lost it in the midst of some adventure, I don't think this one is likely as when it was mentioned that the swords didn't match he didn't seem to lament a loss that i think he would have if he had lost it in that way. I think the sword still being in his possession but hidden is the most likely.
  17.  
    Hypnos164

    Hypnos164 New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    476
    Given that the Adem gave him his "true" name and the sword could they have taken both back (and his magical power as a side effect)?
  18.  
    Clansman

    Clansman Lochaber Axeman, QC

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,909
    Just got my book.:mad: In the mail.

    Price-clipped, and a 2nd print.:mad::mad:

    The thing was released on bloody March 1!:mad:
  19.  
    IlliferThePenniless

    IlliferThePenniless New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2009
    Messages:
    282

    Oof!
    Note to self: Be sure to pick up A Dance with Dragons in a store.
  20.  
    Boneman

    Boneman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2008
    Messages:
    4,468
    Re the sword on the wall. In book one, straight after it's hung up, people arrive in town and the children follow the tinker singing the Chandrian rhymes. My guess is that it's a chandrian sword, probably cinder's. Here's the description of cinder - Quote: 'Except his eyes. They were black like a goat's but with no iris. His eyes were like his sword, and neither one reflected the light of the fire or the setting sun.' Sounds like it to me...

    And re Denna (I'm getting a weensy bit fed up with her character, and I blame Kvothe - when the heck is he going to declare his feelings for her? Surely now he has a decent maturity, since the Felurian affair - and BTW I see Salma Hayak playing her part in the film - he could tell her now, couldn't he???) When Chronicler first approached him, he snaps at him: "I trouped, traveled, loved, lost, trusted and was betrayed.'

    So Denna, knowingly or unknowingly is going to betray him, methinks. And her patron must be chandrian related, why else would he get her to compose a song that puts Lanre in a good light?

    And I agree - locked in the box is Kvothe's real name and power, but he doesn't have the inner spirit, the joie-de-vivre, the ability to open it, because she betrayed him - his life crashed and burned. I'm assuming she'll walk into the inn somewhere in book three... or maybe not. This is a love story - that is the one thing Pat has said.

Share This Page