Had it with epic fantasy

[sielah]

The problem I have with the long delay between books is that by the time the next one comes out, I've forgotten a lot of what happened by the end of the last one. That's a real problem with ASOIAF, which has lots and lots of small but important details.

And I know I could re-read the books, but this is something I just hate doing. Why read three books again when in the same time I could read three (or more) completely new books?

But GRRM is doing much better than Melanie Rawn, who has all but admitted that she'll never write the conclusion to the Ambrai trilogy. That's a real pisser, especially as she ended the second novel on a huge cliffhanger.

 

[murphy]

But GRRM is doing much better than Melanie Rawn, who has all but admitted that she'll never write the conclusion to the Ambrai trilogy. That's a real pisser, especially as she ended the second novel on a huge cliffhanger.

When did she do that? I'm still expecting an ending to the Exiles trilogy, especially since she finally finished up the prequel to The Golden Key.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Authors can take a long time to finish their books when inspiration fails. You just can't force yourself to write something wonderful if your brain is digging in its heels and hanging back, although you can force out something highly inferior.

But in all fairness to the original poster, Mr. Martin does over-commit himself to the max. If he wasn't juggling so many different projects and was just concentrating on the one, it's possible he would have brought the series to a satisfying conclusion by now. I don't really see him pacing the floor at three a.m., the sweat beading his brow, as he struggles to work out whatever problems are preventing him from going forward. He seems to be happily working on other projects while some of his fans fume. It's his right to work on whatever he wants to write, but if he doesn't spare a thought every now and again for the suspense he is putting his loyal readers through, then he's a hard man. Possibly he is not that hard, and would agree that he's taking too long.

 

[Ursa major]

According to GRRM, he's having trouble aligning the time-lines. As I understand it, the story was meant to jump five years, a jump that can hide a host of inconvenient time issues; but now that he's telling us about what happened in those five years (and, personally, I'm glad he is**), he can't be so cavalier about it.




** - When a book is focused on a single character, I (as a reader) am prepared to accept that the protagonist might have disappeared from sight and that they've been doing various long-term things that are, in essence, boring, but which equip them for their later challenges. The problem for GRRM in ASoIaF is that there are more than a dozen key characters (the POVs and many others), so it's stretching believability that they've all been in training or sitting on their laurels while the fate of the kingdom remains undecided and where there are armies still in the field (albeit that some are a long way away from the others, like Stannis's forces).

 

[Boneman]

And with absolutely no criticism to GRRM whatsoever, I do find his take on epic fantasy has too many characters, but that's purely because of the way I read (I skim first time, then enjoy a slower read about a year later.) Problem is, with GRRM that I've forgotten soo much of his stuff. But I can appreciate what he is achieving as a writer, and admire it.

As for Stephen King... In the Dark Tower series, he left us on a demented train for 7 years whilst he was writing other books. But the wait was worth it, albeit frustrating!

 

[Urien]

That's true, SK's train (Blaine) was demented. Time and again I've said, "don't invent AIs. They will try to slaughter us all." yet do we learn? Sadly no.

Even now I have a robot vacuum cleaner. I think it looks at me funny some mornings, as though IT would like to be eating those cornflakes.

...and that's hope over (science fiction) expected future experience; which is why I still wait with hope in my heart for the end of ASOIAF.

Today I am mostly working on tangents. Logs and matrix multiplication tomorrow.

 

[Werthead]

Martin and Jordan, and several others writing epic fantasy these days have come up with an amazing cash cow... and they milk it for all it's worth. If you start reading one of these neverending epics, don't complain if down the line somewhere you begin to feel like you're being played.

Except of course, in order to be milking the series he would have to be actually releasing new material so people could buy it. He's not, so they're not so there isn't any milking going on.

Feist: Milking.
Brooks: Milking.
Jordan: Can be accused of milking the series although I don't think he did so deliberately.
Erikson: Can be accused of milking the series (given its growth in size by 120% over the originally-planned ten books).
GRRM: Not so much.

 

[Ursa major]

Even now I have a robot vacuum cleaner. I think it looks at me funny some mornings, as though IT would like to be eating those cornflakes.

If your robot vacuum cleaner happens to be steam-powered, there's a book you perhaps ought to avoid....



Obviously, I can't tell you which book as that would be a (minor) spolier.

 

[Urien]

Ursa,

A steam powered robot vacuum cleaner.. ?Yes I had one once, created in my SHED OF NIGHTMARES unfortunateLy it was the size of a truck; so not so good for the house. However, I did try it on impromtu street cleaning in old Penrith town... those poor students, they didn't deserve it. Ah well, back to the drawing board.


...and WHAT he still hasn't written the next book?

 

[woodsman]

Except of course, in order to be milking the series he would have to be actually releasing new material so people could buy it. He's not, so they're not so there isn't any milking going on.

Feist: Milking.
Brooks: Milking.
Jordan: Can be accused of milking the series although I don't think he did so deliberately.
Erikson: Can be accused of milking the series (given its growth in size by 120% over the originally-planned ten books).
GRRM: Not so much.

Spot on.

Considering something by Feist costs pretty much the same as something by Martin, is half as long and a quarter as good. (I am a big Feist fan but he's more of a cash cow milker than Martin will ever be).

I don't see what the problem with authors making money really, if its S~?* don't buy it, if its good then its worth it, no? Same thing applies to the wait, but it does get frustrating nonetheless.

 

[Weasel Soup]

The time between the books is long but I think if nothing else the amount of speculation here (on the forums) shows how complicated the tale is. I agree with the sentiment about being impatient, but I am much more in the camp of I'd rather it maintain the quality that the series has presented so far. Martin doesn't seem to put alot of filler in his material, where an entire chapter/POV is simply there for atmosphere. What I really enjoy about the series is that we have yet to meet or have just met characters who we have been aware of from the first book who hopefully and seemingly have major roles to play. (ie Marwyn, Reed, Connington)

The other aspect of Martin's writing I truly enjoy, and have a tendency to do on rereads, is just linearly (is that a word?) read just one pov through a book. While obviously there is a single overall story arc, there is a definite individual richness to most of the POVs. We all have a POV or 2 we don't really love but......

To cross to another thread a bit, I find myself anticipating the HBO series a bit more not so much for the newness of it but moreso to see under Martin's guidance the way he envisions Westeros. That, and well, frankly, to see some of the lines from the books delivered on screen. Between Tyrion and Dolorous Edd alone I anticipate a rather many "rewind that" moments. And Robert's "do you smell bacon" line seems to be made for the screen.

And finally, having been in creative field myself, I agree with Theresa. Quality cannot be rushed, and usually the artist is his/her own worst critic. (Obviously from my punctuation and spelling I am not a writer) I have shown work before it was ready and have greatly regretted it. My only fear of the HBO series is it may require Martin to rush the final 2 books.

 

[TK-421]

Weaz, there's someone we have not see around these parts for some time. Welcome back.

 

[Boaz]

Hey, WS... I'm going to follow your lead and move off topic (but since the title of the thread is "Had it with epic fantasy", I think I'm actually staying on topic).

To cross to another thread a bit, I find myself anticipating the HBO series a bit more not so much for the newness of it but moreso to see under Martin's guidance the way he envisions Westeros.

Good point. I wonder if The Lord of the Rings movies would have looked radically different if JRRT was still alive. Would he approved of the portrayals of Faramir, Denethor, Elrond, Arwen, Teebeard, Merry, Pippin, and Gimli? Would he have permitted Aragorn's cold blooded murder of the Mouth of Sauron? Would he have insisted upon Tom Bombadil? Would he have cried for joy when he saw the Argonath and the charge of the Rohirrim? (I know I have problems with certain parts and characters in the three films, but Theoden's charge at the Pelennor is probably the most incredibly epic moment I've ever seen.) I don't know.

I do feel that Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series has a different feel than it's on screen counterpart, Legend of the Seeker. The books are just so-so, but the TV show is fun. Maybe it's the one hour, stand-alone episodes. Maybe it's the fact that I can turn off most of my brain and still be entertained. Maybe it's the well choreographed action sequences. Maybe I like Darken Rahl's clothes... Ummm, maybe I think Sam Raimi has a great vision for presentation... Maybe... well, maybe it's just that the Mother Confessor's dresses are much more appealing (and revealing) on screen than in print. I don't like to work too hard for my gratuitous sex and violence.

 

[Ursa major]

And staying off ... er ... on topic:

And then there is GRRM's pre-existing experience in TV production. Whether or not he wrote ASoIaF with the screen (small or otherwise) in mind, I can't help feeling that it must have informed his writing to some extent.

 

[Boaz]

That's a solid observation, Bear. Mayhaps he did not write the first three books with a screen production in mind, but will the HBO series impact the way GRRM formulates and writes the final books?

 

[the smiling weirwood]

It's because the actors are hot.

 

[Clansman]

And GRRM is not. Seriously, the guy needs to cut down on saturated fats and get some exercise.

But only if it doesn't cut into his writing time. Maybe he'll solve the Meerinese knot, or whatever it is...

 

[Landroval]

You can write and jog at the same time these days with those dictation machines.

I definitely haven't had it with epic fantasy but I must admit that the next time I buy a book I will check beforehand whether or not the author managed to finish it.

 

[Werthead]

You can write and jog at the same time these days with those dictation machines.

The only SF&F author I know who uses a dictation machine on a regular basis is Kevin J. Anderson. His books are unreadable crap. The correlation may only be coincidental, but it does make me reluctant to recommend the dictation option to any writer.

I definitely haven't had it with epic fantasy but I must admit that the next time I buy a book I will check beforehand whether or not the author managed to finish it.

I think I know what you meant, but this statement out of context doesn't make sense. If you have the book in your hand and the author is still alive, I believe that means it's likely he has finished it

 

[Landroval]

I think I know what you meant, but this statement out of context doesn't make sense. If you have the book in your hand and the author is still alive, I believe that means it's likely he has finished it

You mean you hope he will finish it. So do I, for what it's worth. But I regret that I am not as optimistic as I would like to be, if that makes any kind of sense.