Had it with epic fantasy

Discussion in 'George R R Martin' started by Humanraindelay, Nov 9, 2009.

  1.  
    Humanraindelay

    Humanraindelay New Member

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    I respect Mr. Martin and think he has done a great job on this series so far. However at this rate, I'll be pushing 70+ when the series is over, if I make it that far. AFfC came out in 05. Before that it was it was aSoS in 2000. That makesm it 9 years since I had a meaningful Jon, Tyrion or Danearys chapter. Unless i have missed it, there isn't even any word out on when this book may be finished.

    Sorry just fealt the need to vent. Go ahead and bash me if you want.


    edit: or delete this thread all together. I would have but I couldn't figure out how.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
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    Jayaprakash Satyamurthy

    Jayaprakash Satyamurthy Knivesout no more

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    I can delete it if you insist; or move it to the general book discussion section.
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    Teresa Edgerton

    Teresa Edgerton Goblin Princess Staff Member

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    We don't delete threads unless there is a very good reason, Humanraindelay. Simply having second thoughts is not considered good enough, or we would be deleting posts and threads all day.

    You have a limited time to edit your own posts, and you can't delete them. Because of this, it is always a good idea to think very carefully before you hit "Submit." Especially if it's something you believe is going to be controversial.

    On the other hand, I don't think you will really be bashed for your opinion. I'm sure you can expect a lot of disagreement, but we don't allow personal attacks here.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
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    Culhwch

    Culhwch Change is as good as a holiday! Staff Member

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    Right, time for some bashing.

    No, not really. Look, I feel your frustration, but I figure the books will arrive when they arrive, and we'll be lucky to have them. They are Martin's books to write, and in the end it's on him when he delivers them. I'm not going to curse the man for slowness. God knows I do most things at a snail's pace. In the meantime, I'll read something else - there's a few more folks trying their hands at this writing game, or so I've heard. I'll have to keep my eye out for one of these 'bookstores' the young folk keep talking about...
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    biodroid

    biodroid Expensive Gadget User

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    I feel like that in general about all Fantasy, I stopped it for a while now and am back into SF and horror, more entertaining and less corny IMHO.
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    Moggle

    Moggle New Member

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    You do realize there are a gazillion other books out there for you to read, right? I don't even know why it's so important that he even finishes the series. If he were the drop dead today wouldn't most fans be satisfied with the current 4 books in the series?
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    Culhwch

    Culhwch Change is as good as a holiday! Staff Member

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    No, they'd accuse his corpse of laziness, and send him hate mail through John Edward and ouija boards.
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    pyan

    pyan Fortiter et recte! Staff Member

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    Don't worry - they can always get Eoin Colfer or Kevin J Anderson to complete the series...:p
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    Culhwch

    Culhwch Change is as good as a holiday! Staff Member

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    Or a bright new talent like... Christopher Paolini! The boy knows dragons, after all!
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    woodsman

    woodsman Double-stuff Oreos!

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    The stuff of nightmares.

    Actually I was a bit disappointed with AFFC and so wouldn't be terribly happy if it stopped now... That said, there's nothing to be done about it.

    I think the annoying things about G.R.R.M are:
    Mr Erikson seems to write a bit faster...
    He's too good.
    Martin seems so much better than most other fantasy I've read between times (Not all, most) that you can't help feeling a little angst over the time between each book. It's like, I'll eat at Mcdonalds every now and then to fill a hole but I don't miss it and never crave it between times. Going home to have one of me old mum's roasts, however, is something to be cherished and I often crave one.

    Not sure I've really achieved anything here.

    Except making myself hungry, breakfast beckons.
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    rojse

    rojse New Member

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    I'd rather have a writer put their work out later than their deadline, and have them happy with the quality of the work they produce, rather than them release the book on time, but have the work of sub-standard quality.
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    The Ace

    The Ace Aye fur Alba

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    I'm not too fond of GRRM, but the above posts have a point.

    Douglas Adams was browbeaten into finishing, 'Mostly Harmless,' and it showed.

    Even he was unhappy with the ending but for various reasons was never able to do anything about it.

    Give GRRM a little time, I think he's painted himself into a corner, but you never know.
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    Urien

    Urien New Member

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    Complicated stuff. Does one make an implicit contract with a reader when selling your books? If you're buying a series (as a reader) then is it reasonable to wait nine(?) years for two books, or does it violate an implicit contract... "I'm handing my money over for this series in the belief that it will be continued at a reasonable frequency."
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    Winters_Sorrow

    Winters_Sorrow Unreg. Mutant Moderator Staff Member

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    I wonder if JRR Tolkien every got grief for the 17 year gap between The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings? Probably not :)
    Mind you, it's a false analogy as it wasn't a planned series as such and at least the Lord of the Rings was delivered complete and broken up by the publisher, not the author!

    I don't think it's a bad post though Humanraindelay, I'm sure a lot of people are waiting just as impatiently. The worry is the same as with Robert Jordan I suppose, that it will take so long to finish that GRRM will expire before it reaches it's end! I obviously hope not, more so because I think he's a great storyteller and I'm looking forward to the books he writes after A Song of Ice and Fire are completed!

    And I don't think there's a contract as such Urien - you hope the author is prolific and writes quickly and to a high standard but it doesn't always work out that way. Although imagine the horror though if he was to pull the plug and say "Ok, I'm sick of the flak I'm getting about these books and they're proving too hard to complete. I'm moving on to something else..." :eek:
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    Sparrow

    Sparrow Science fiction fantasy

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    I think people who are involved with these neverending series are simply being played by the author and his/her publisher. Rowling did it right; she announced seven books would cover her Harry Potter story, and she delivered, on schedule.

    I won't start an epic fantasy unless the end is in sight... Pullman's Dark Materials Trilogy, Clive Barker's Abarat, just to name two I've already read or still following. The best in the genre are those series, that while long and with very complex plots, have well constructed (traditional) ideas about storytelling.

    Martin and Jordan, and several others writing epic fantasy these days have come up with an amazing cash cow... and they milk it for all it's worth. If you start reading one of these neverending epics, don't complain if down the line somewhere you begin to feel like you're being played.
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    j d worthington

    j d worthington Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually... yes, he did. Quite a bit, as a matter of fact. And it was the anticipation for "a new Hobbit" which played a large part in nothing of what became The Silmarillion being published during his lifetime, as that work didn't interest the publishers, while a sequel to The Hobbit did....

    As for the "implicit contract" thing... well, frankly, that's utter nonsense. Understandable nonsense, mind you, but nonsense nonetheless. As a reader myself, I feel sad and disappointed when such things happen -- I'll always regret, for instance, that Gordy Dickson never finished his Childe Cycle... especially as I'd been looking forward to reading the entire thing as a unit since I was about fourteen (that's nearly 38 years now). And I've always wanted to read the other two (never written) books in Avram Davidson's proposed trilogy which began with The Island Under the Earth....

    But no one has a right to expect a writer to write to suit them. They have a right not to buy that writer's work if they don't like whatever else the writer does; but writing, as a creative endeavor, cannot be held to such a contract of continuing stories of the same type (let alone the same series) in the same way as someone with a "day job" can be held to their normal duties, without the quality suffering greatly from it -- unless the writer him-or-herself feels the continued inspiration for that particular type of tale. Creativity such as this can seldom be governed in that way; it relies too much on factors beyond our conscious control; and, if you want something that's actually worth reading, you just have to be patient and hope that the writer's "afflatus" continues in that vein. Otherwise, you're in for a world of frustration, either by being irked at nothing coming out, or having what does come out fall well below that writer's standard, let alone their best.
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    viZion

    viZion Arrogant Bastard

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    This is well put. I hate it when people say, "Just read other books!" as a response. Well, other books just aren't as good! :p I mean, I do read other books but, for me, nothing has come close to ASOIAF in quality. Erikson is not good at all. I feel a rant coming on: (MAJOR spoilers for Erikson's series)

    As much as I can't stand Bran, I would take an entire book full of his chapters over having to read about the Mhybe again. She takes whining to entirely new levels. And, come on, did people really not see that Whiskeyjack was going to die? Erikson only mentioned Whiskeyjack's bum leg about 800 times. Of *course* he was going to die and the leg was going to cause it (but don't worry because he'll probably be resurrected in some way). I chuckled when I read it, rolled my eyes at the overly dramatic funeral, finished the book, and quit the series. That was supposed to be one of the best fantasy books ever written. Horrible.

    Anyway, it sucks to wait but what can you do? I don't like GRRM for it I'm pretty used to it by now. I'll still end up buying the book on the day it comes out.
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    the smiling weirwood

    the smiling weirwood Axes and Saws Prohibited

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    You're entitled to your opinion, but Mr. Martin has always said he had only five books planned, but the story grew in the telling and now he expects it will be seven, just to fit in all the great stuff he can't stand to keep out.

    I wouldn't call ASoIaF a "neverending" epic either, it's more like an extensively delayed one.
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    woodsman

    woodsman Double-stuff Oreos!

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    To add to the merry tree's response. I can get more words for my money by reading a single volume of Martin than two smaller, more concise novels. Why doesn't he split them up a lot further. A lot more money to be made this way and save me less. Jordan did stretch his series out massively I'd not say the same thing about Martin. He's more the perfectionist, but I can live with that.
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    murphy

    murphy New Member

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    I feel your pain. I'm already 76 and just hope he finishes up the series before I die. The thing I always worried about was dying right in the middle of a favorite series. ;)

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