If I write in the "first person", do I condamn myself?

[JFLewis]

I'm chiming in a bit late, but I think it's really a matter of how it "reads" to agent or editor to whom it is submitted. My first sale is a first person novel (I even alternate narrators in a few spots), but it works for my narrative.

I can't imagine the first five Amber books being anywhere near as effective in third person. ON the other hand, it might have helped the last five...

For a good example of knowing when to shift from first person to third person, take a look at the Dragoncrown War Cycle by Michael Stackpole. The prequel, The Dark Glory War, is first person, but the trilogy itself is third person and it works quite well. The Dark Glory War is very personal, while the Dragoncrown War Cycle itself is more epic in scale... the narrative style fits the narrative.

 

[Pyan]

Ummm... Pyan....

H. P. Lovecraft, Edgar Allan Poe, Clark Ashton Smith, Robert E. Howard (at least a fairly good portion), A. Merritt, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Mary Shelley......

Maybe I exaggerated just a little bit.....

But I have no problem reading the classics in first person...it's the modern ones I don't like. Still, someone recommend me a newer book in that voice, and I'll give it a go....no-one can say I'm not flexible.

 

[j d worthington]

...no-one can say I'm not flexible.

Coming from someone with tentacles... that's an understatement....

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

The Name of the Wind is rather sneaky in it's use of the first person, though. It starts out with a framing story in third person (undoubtedly meant to lure in unsuspecting readers of Pyan's ilk), and then the main character sits down to relate his own life history.

It's certainly a popular book right now, but it does rather frequently lapse into one of the most common vices of the first person narrative: heavy-handed foreshadowing in the had-I-but-known mode.

 

[Giovanna Clairval]

The Name of the Wind is rather sneaky in it's use of the first person, though. It starts out with a framing story in third person (undoubtedly meant to lure in unsuspecting readers of Pyan's ilk), and then the main character sits down to relate his own life history.

Yes, Teresa, and I may add that this 900 page debut novel was refused by all living agents until Patrick Rothfuss met Kevin Anderson at a workshop, and the author introduced him to his own agent (who had miraculously escaped Rothfuss' submission, in spite of being alive).

Suum cuique (let each have his own)

Now, when one reads a few raving reviews, one wonders why no agent (not one) took the risk before the referral. There must have been several guys who loved the novel but thought, "I'll never sell it."

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Yes, Teresa, and I may add that this 900 page debut novel was refused by all living agents until Patrick Rothfuss met Kevin Anderson at a workshop, and the author introduced him to his own agent (who had miraculously escaped Rothfuss' submission, in spite of being alive).

Well, that sounds like a bit of humorous hyperbole on the part of the author, and not really meant to be taken seriously. It would take an awfully long time (and a princely sum spent on postage) to contact all living agents.

 

[Giovanna Clairval]

Maybe I was being jocular, too?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I'm sure you were. But I've seen people take these stories very seriously. Every time I hear how many publishers turned down Harry Potter, for instance, the number grows.

Anyway, to return to the original subject of this discussion, I strongly suspect that the agents who did turn down the Rothfuss book never got past the third person framing story (which is rather slow-going and full of mysterious and somewhat disjointed hints) and into the first person narrative, where the style becomes livelier and the protagonist becomes a three-dimensional, fleshed-out human being.

In fact, I'd almost be willing to bet real money that it was the far more interesting first person story that sold the book -- and the third person narrative that almost didn't.

 

[Giovanna Clairval]

I totally agree, Teresa. The beginning is too slow; it doesn't reveal the flavour of the book in the slightest way.

So it's no use disguising a first person narrative...

 

[John Jarrold]

Maybe I exaggerated just a little bit.....

But I have no problem reading the classics in first person...it's the modern ones I don't like. Still, someone recommend me a newer book in that voice, and I'll give it a go....no-one can say I'm not flexible.

See Giovanna's list. Lots of wonderful 'modern' books there!

 

[John Jarrold]

Diligently browsing around in the Forum, I remember seeing a discussion on this topic somewhere, but I couldn't find it again. Sorry if I rehash other threads.

A published author (and editor) met at a reading has advised me against sending out a novel written in the first person (150,000 words).
He kindly accepted to see samples, and he said that the execution is good, and he liked my voice very much; so it isn't a matter of difficulty, says he.

This professional thinks that novels written in the first person "do not match the current market".


Problem: I don't wish to change this, unless it's REALLY vital. I'll change anything else but not the POV . No stubborness, here. I just feel in my guts that it's "right" for the story.

But I'd like to know more about the topic.

Two questions:

1) Is it true that the first person is not "fashionable"? Would this diminish my chances of being published?

2) Who are the authors who have published novels written in the first person in, say, the last five years?

Thank you in anticipation (I'm very worried).

John Scalzi's OLD MAN'S WAR, which is one of the most praised SF novels by a US writer in recent years, is first-person...

 

[the_faery_queen]

i LOVE first person.
my own novel is first person (so yeah im biased)
robin hobb's farseer, which i love, is first person
carol bergs rai kirah is first person (written 2001 i think) and i got her newest one the other day, and was delighted that that was also first person
you know what works best for your book, for the story you want to tell. so you go with what's best. ok it maybe harder to get it into print, and it's not easy at the best of times, but if you're like me, you rather have a book you love and are proud of, then one that is commerical. im happy with how mine turned out, first person and all, and would rather sell to small print and sell only a handful of copies than have to make it third person and ruin what i was going for. (yeah i like first person that much!)

 

[John Jarrold]

I really don't believe that first person is harder to sell. And yes, every story has a shape, a feel, that suits a specific way of tellling, and that way can often be through a first-person narrative.

 

[the_faery_queen]

i dunno, i've had comments from publishers (ok just one) that say you can't write a book in first person (which i thought was crazy talk, esp coming from a publisher) but most of the others who have seen my effort didn't have a problem with the first person ness
it was everything else!
so yeah. maybe it's not harder to sell, but some people don't seem to like it for some reason. perhaps because they're not used to it.

 

[Anarchon]

Thank you, Giovanna, for the list. I'm already reading a few excerpts, and I'll buy some of those books.

The Faery Queen, like you, I absolute love reading first person.

Teresa, have you written novels in the first person?

Thank you, John. Your answers reassure me. That authour's reaction had really made me doubt.

I am a fan of Robin Hobb. I can't imagine her books written in the third person. And Roger Zelazny's best novels wouldn't sound right without first person.


Pyan, you must have read recent novels in which the authors have committed a few sins against plot and dramatisation. I have read that these mistakes are easy to make when you use this narrative. Too heavy foreboding is one of them, as Teresa said. Brooding is another ("If I had done that instead of doing this. Oh, I could have"...)

I have been discussing this topic with a fellow writer She has a theory.

According to her, first person reduces the distance between the narrator and the reader. We get more than a glimpse into the mind of the protagonist. This makes for easier identification or, to the opposite, a negative reaction (we don't like that particular mind).

Several readers don't appreciate this lack of distance and prefer third person, for its (relative) "objectivation" of feelings and emotions.
In her opinion, women tend to like first person more than men because of the greater emotional involvelment--with all the possible exceptions, she said.

She wasn't saying that third person didn't convey emotions. She was just talking about the readers' attitudes towards the emotional chatter of a protagonist.

What do you think?

 

[the_faery_queen]

i think that's a valid point. women often like character driven stuff, most of the stuff women write is that way, and it makes sense that first person would be more character driven cos you're right in their head. it's certainly why i like it.
when it's done well
one book im reading (princes of the golden cage) is getting on my boobs a lot cos it's first person and the main character is an ass. his thoughts are rushed, he jumps to conclusions and he thinks everyone else is an idiot. so i think it can be great to get into their head, and get that emotional invovlment, as long as the character isn't a tit and at least with third person, if one person is a tit, you have a backup cast to like.

 

[John Jarrold]

i dunno, i've had comments from publishers (ok just one) that say you can't write a book in first person (which i thought was crazy talk, esp coming from a publisher) .

It's rubbish and it's wrong.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Teresa, have you written novels in the first person?

No, I never have, but I wouldn't hesitate if I had a story that revolved around one character instead of many. There was one set of books (a prequel to The Green Lion Trilogy) that I always intended to write in first person, and undoubtedly would have done if the books had ever been written.

If first person has it's pitfalls of foreboding and brooding, third person can lend itself to other problems, and the worst of these, in my opinion, is head-hopping.

There is an author who has written one of my favorite YA books, who recently published three more books vaguely related to the first, and so of course I was very eager to read them. But I never did finish either of the two that I began, because they drove me absolutely crazy with two or three POV changes on every page -- perhaps I exaggerate a little, but that's how it felt. Well, we all have our little prejudices, things that other readers can glide right over while we find them an intolerable distraction (one critiquer I encountered early in my career was death on colons, and of course there's the anti-adverb brigade), and for me it's head-hopping.

So I wondered, "Why is it so bad in these books and I never noticed it in the book I loved?" Which was followed by the palm to the forehead, and: "Because that one was written in first person."

So I think both approaches have their strengths and weaknesses. As a reader, it's immaterial to me whether a story is told in first or in third. It doesn't figure into my decision to read (or not read) a book at all. It wouldn't even occur to me to take it into consideration. I've seen both done well and both done badly.

 

[John Jarrold]

Hear, hear...

 

[Gary Compton]

There is an author who has written one of my favorite YA books, who recently published three more books vaguely related to the first, and so of course I was very eager to read them. But I never did finish either of the two that I began, because they drove me absolutely crazy with two or three POV changes on every page -- perhaps I exaggerate a little, but that's how it felt.

Hello Teresa

Nice to talk to somebody on the other side of the pond. I am new to writing and I have been getting some help on understanding POV characters, I wondered in relation to your comments above if you are writing using POV characters would you keep it to the same POV throughout your book or would you switch from scene to scene. Presumably you wouldn't have 2-3 POV's in the same few pages in view of your comments above.

Waiting in anticipation...