Tyrion's Third - Varys and the Illyrionati.

[Boaz]

In Tyrion’s third chapter of ASOS, the Small Council dispenses many lands to Mace Tyrell and his bannermen. When Lord Redwyne wanted to stop the meeting and toast each other, Cersei in exasperation butts in …

“It’s swords Joff needs, not toasts,” she snapped. “His realm is still plagued with would-be usurpers and self-styled kings.”
“But not for long, I think,” said Varys unctuously.
“A few more items remain, my lords.” Ser Kevan consulted his papers. “Ser Addam has…”

I find it slightly alarming that Varys smugly, smoothly, confidently states that those claiming the Iron Throne or claiming freedom from it will not be around for long. What does he know? Did he know about the Faceless Man going for Balon? Did he know about Walder’s upcoming treachery?

Even more alarming is Kevan’s immediate dismissal of Varys’ comment. Kevan was Tywin’s man through and through. On page 259 of my US paperback, Tyrion thinks…

Ser Kevan was his brother’s vanguard in council, Tyrion knew from long experience; he never had a thought that Lord Tywin had not had first.

If anyone is privy to Tywin’s plans, it is Kevan. I think Kevan was trying to keep the others from questioning Varys and exposing Tywin’s plans.

But what if Varys was not referring to Balon or Robb? What if Varys was speaking of Littlefinger’s and Olenna’s plot to poison Joffrey? I wonder if he was threatening Littlefinger, warning Tywin, or making a private joke.

Just after that exchange, on page263 Varys gives his report. He starts with the unbelievable, moves to the boring, and follows up with the ridiculous.

“A kraken has been seen off the Fingers.” He giggled. “Not a Greyjoy, mind you, a true kraken. It attacked an Ibbenese whaler and pulled it under. There is fighting on the Stepstones, and a new war between Tyrosh and Lys seems likely. Both hope to win Myr as an ally. Sailors back from the Jade Sea report that a three-headed dragon has hatched in Qarth, and is the wonder of that city—“

Varys’ report was cut short by Tywin. But the point is that he already had Jorah’s reports! He could have given the Small Council the whole truth. No, he presented it as outlandish barbarian rumors. Just in case it came back to try and bite him, Varys covered himself with a version of the truth.

I think Varys knew two specific secrets and chose to reveal them neither to the Hand nor the Regent. He obviously does not serve the Lannisters. If he knew of Joffrey’s impending death, then Varys is decidedly against the Lannisters. Since Varys covered up Dany’s dragons, he must be pro-Targaryen.

In AGOT, Varys and Illyrio discuss plots under the Red Keep that are overheard by Arya. Varys seems to be either an ally or servant of Illyrio. Remember Varys asked Illyrio for more little birds? We don’t know who they are or where they spy from. But they must be part of Varys’ network.

Varys told both Eddard and Tyrion that he serves the realm. He appeared earnest to both of them, but how can he be for the realm when he’s pro-Targaryen? The best thing for the realm would be to kill the dragons before they grow…

I wonder how extensive the pro-Targaryen network extends? Doran and Oberyn are pro-Targaryen. Marwyn? House Dayne and others in Dorne? Littlefinger.

This secret network may be more cohesive than we know. If Illyrio is it’s head, then I think I’ll call them the Illyrionati… or mayhaps the Targaryenati.

How extensive do you think the network is?

 

[viZion]

I've always felt Varys was pro-Targaryen. I got that feeling in AGOT when he's talking with Eddard about being a servant to the Kingdom. The Kingdom was never more secure and unified than with the Targaryens. Now that dragons are back in play, he probably feels more than ever that Targaryens are the answer to the kingdom's problems.

The network is probably huge. It's only been 15 years since the Targaryens ruled so they are still fresh in people's memories and it's not like Robert was such an outstanding ruler that he would make people forget their old loyalties. The Tyrells and Dorne I think are definitely pro-Targaryen. The Lannisters are only pro-Lannister but smart enough to feel the pressure from the pro-Targaryens which would lead to the attacks and alliances made and hinted at in your Greyjoys thread.

 

[TK-421]

Well, Boaz,

Yes, Varys is pro-Targaryen, which in the mind of a pro-Targ would make him more pro-realm than anyone else. Who better than the Mother of Dragons to save the realm from its doom, which it seems to be marching, or rather running, towards since the death of Robert.

Yes, Varys knew of the Faceless Men and he may actually be the one employing them to kill Balon. He wanted to see Robb dead so the North would be easily swayed back to the Targaryen cause. Especially with a Targaryen heir to Winterfell.

My feeling was always that while the Lannisters knew Varys had an extensive network of little birds, they dismiss him out of arrogance and stupidity as not a threat. I mean in Tywin and Kevan's eyes, how could a soft eunuch bring down the richest House in Westeros and the House that now controls the Iron Throne. He has no armies, no castle, no great title, is not a great warrior and is not even Westerosi by birth. While Tywin and to a lesser degree Kevan are both good strategists and can see some of the bigger picture than Cersei or Jaime could, they still underestimate the greatest threat to their power that sat next to them on the Small Council.

So, when Varys said "But not for long, I think", he really meant the usurpers that are the Lannisters/Baratheons and not Stannis nor Robb nor Balon. Nobody around the table caught on.

 

[Shacklock]

Inteeeresting. But methinks you just really want Westeros to have an Illuminati

 

[Boaz]

he really meant the usurpers that are the Lannisters/Baratheons

Yup.

Potential members of the Illyrionati...

Petyr Baelish. House Baelish was established sometime near the end of the Targaryen dynasty. I've asked before How did the son of the most minor lord of the Vale get his son fostered by Hoster Tully? The only answer I can come up with is... royal favor. In addition to the rise of House Baelish, House Tully also came to power during the time of the Targaryens. If House Tully was seen to be loyal to the Targaryens and if the Targaryens wanted to repay a favor to House Baelish, then Littlefinger's fostering could have been the price.

We know Littlefinger actively brought about the downfall of his patron Jon Arryn and killed Lysa Arryn. So he's not loyal to the Arryns. We know he's not loyal to the Tullys. He hates the Starks. He did nothing to prevent Robert's death. He conspired to murder Joffrey and he almost got Tyrion flying out the Moon Door, i.e. he does not like the Lannisters. His only friends in Westeros seem to be the Tyrells.

He appears to not like Varys, but we've never seen the two of them alone.

Olenna Tyrell. Before Aegon the Conqueror, the Tyrells were stewards to the Kings of the Reach. They owe their current power directly to the Targaryen dynasty.

We know that Doran Martell was saving Arianne to marry Viserys. We also know that Doran was forced to change his plans and try to marry Quentyn to Daenarys. What if the Martells were in the same boat? Olenna and Mace could have been saving Margaery for Viserys. But when they learned of Viserys death, then they married her to Renly and tried to set up their own dynasty. There is also a hypothesis that Loras is not injured; that in fact Loras is on his way to woo Dany... just like Quentyn is doing.

Remember just before Oberyn's and Gregor's duel, Oberyn told Tyrion the story of how his mother and Tywin both were saving their daughters for Rhaegar.

Doran Martell. Doran is very much a Targaryen supporter as are most of the Dornish lords. I think Doran has been in secret negotiations with Illyrio and Viserys for years and years. It's true that Dorne was brought into the Seven Kingdoms under Targaryen rule, i.e. Dorne lost her independence. But Dorne was treated better than the other regions... more Targaryen heirs were married to Dornish princesses than any other house... and Dorne is supported and protected against the more numerically superior houses of Tyrell, Lannister, Baratheon, and Arryn. The biggest reason that Doran is a Targaryen supporter is that he hopes the Targaryens will give him justice for Elia and her babes.

 

[Shacklock]

Yup.

Potential members of the Illyrionati...

Petyr Baelish. House Baelish was established sometime near the end of the Targaryen dynasty. I've asked before How did the son of the most minor lord of the Vale get his son fostered by Hoster Tully? The only answer I can come up with is... royal favor. In addition to the rise of House Baelish, House Tully also came to power during the time of the Targaryens. If House Tully was seen to be loyal to the Targaryens and if the Targaryens wanted to repay a favor to House Baelish, then Littlefinger's fostering could have been the price.

We know Littlefinger actively brought about the downfall of his patron Jon Arryn and killed Lysa Arryn. So he's not loyal to the Arryns. We know he's not loyal to the Tullys. He hates the Starks. He did nothing to prevent Robert's death. He conspired to murder Joffrey and he almost got Tyrion flying out the Moon Door, i.e. he does not like the Lannisters. His only friends in Westeros seem to be the Tyrells.

He appears to not like Varys, but we've never seen the two of them alone.

Olenna Tyrell. Before Aegon the Conqueror, the Tyrells were stewards to the Kings of the Reach. They owe their current power directly to the Targaryen dynasty.

We know that Doran Martell was saving Arianne to marry Viserys. We also know that Doran was forced to change his plans and try to marry Quentyn to Daenarys. What if the Martells were in the same boat? Olenna and Mace could have been saving Margaery for Viserys. But when they learned of Viserys death, then they married her to Renly and tried to set up their own dynasty. There is also a hypothesis that Loras is not injured; that in fact Loras is on his way to woo Dany... just like Quentyn is doing.

Remember just before Oberyn's and Gregor's duel, Oberyn told Tyrion the story of how his mother and Tywin both were saving their daughters for Rhaegar.

Doran Martell. Doran is very much a Targaryen supporter as are most of the Dornish lords. I think Doran has been in secret negotiations with Illyrio and Viserys for years and years. It's true that Dorne was brought into the Seven Kingdoms under Targaryen rule, i.e. Dorne lost her independence. But Dorne was treated better than the other regions... more Targaryen heirs were married to Dornish princesses than any other house... and Dorne is supported and protected against the more numerically superior houses of Tyrell, Lannister, Baratheon, and Arryn. The biggest reason that Doran is a Targaryen supporter is that he hopes the Targaryens will give him justice for Elia and her babes.

On the Littlefinger not liking Varys note, that could just be a front to keep any suspicion off them. Being seen to like the Master of Whispers, an Eununch as well, would probably raise suspicion.

 

[MIDNIGHT]

Littlefinger is loyal to Littlefinger. Varys is loyal to Illyrio. Illyrio to the Targs. Doran is hoping on being loyal to the Targs. The Tyrells at this point are trying to strengthen themselves within the monarchy, if the Targs show up they might support Dany, but I don't believe they know much about her. My head hurts .

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

All good speculation...but the Maesternati has already laid claim to that nickname (coined by me dangit). Get your own.

 

[Boaz]

I did get my own... Illyrionati is not the same as Maesternati.

Maesternati = The brotherhood of the Maesters sworn to world domination and abolition of religion.

Illyrionati = The alliance of Targaryen supporters seeking to re-establish a Targaryen dynasty in Westeros.

Illyrionati sounds better. You should have named yours The Maesteronic Lodge.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Blah blah blah...thats all I hear...

You stole my conceit then.

How about we rename your Targ Conspiracy Network any of the following...

Targ Nation!
The Dragon Men (remember Roberts Antler Men?)
The One Dragon to Rule Us all Society
The Lannister are lying cousin-humping whores and Stannis aint much better Group
The Oh My God we have short term memories and dont remember her grandfather burning half the realm because he could Association
Eunuchs and Chubbs United

and lastly The Grasping at Straws Party (GASP)

Im sure you can come up with better...

 

[viZion]

I'm partial to One Dragon to Rule Us All Society.

 

[Boaz]

Im sure you can come up with better...

Only in my mind.

 

[cape_royds]

But the "rot in Aerys' reign" was supposed to have begun with Varys joining his court. i.e. Varys is said to have undermined the unstable Aerys by constantly working on the King's suspicions.

If that version of things is true, then Varys isn't exactly pro-Targ. Besides, could anyone imagine Rhaegar working smoothly alongside Varys?

I don't know Illyrio's or Varys' real game. But I don't think either of them is a Targaryen loyalist.

 

[Charming Serpent]

Varys is most assuredly a Targyen loyalist as his many discussion with Mopatis have proven. They have been helping Dany get ready to invade all through the novels. Varys is a sneaky creature and there is much about him we do not know. But in one of GRRM's readings, Vary's ship takes Tyrion to Mopatis who then directs him to Dany. Varys, like Littlefinger is playing at something we dont know all about yet though.

 

[Boaz]

Mayhaps Illyrio and Varys are not Targ loyalists. Mayhaps they just want a government which they can control. And then again...

On page 121 of the American hardback, Jaime asks Chief Undergaoler Rennifer Longwaters to whom he submitted his reports on undergaoler Rugen's poor job performance. Remember that Rugen was an alter-ego of Varys.

Rennifer's response... "Certain of them went to the master of coin, others to the master of whisperers. All to the chief gaoler and the King's Justice."

So Littlefinger, Varys and Ilyn Payne saw the reports on Rugen. Payne is illiterate. But Varys and Littlefinger are both major players.

I see three possibilities.

Littlefinger did not care or was waiting to see if he could use Rugen later.

Littlefinger was trying to use Rugen, but Varys went along to learn Littlefinger's plans.

Littlefinger and Varys are in cahoots. We're told elsewhere, in Tyrion's POVs I think, that Littlefinger used his authority to place his own men in multiple financial positions in KL yet here Littlefinger obviously was letting money go to waste!

Continuing with Longwaters' answers to Jaime... "The crown pays wages for twenty turnkeys, my lord, a full score, but during my time we have never had more than twelve."

In response... Six prisoners, Jaime thought sourly, while we pay wages for twenty turnkey, six undergaolers, a chief undergaoler, a gaoler, and a King's Justice.

It's obvious that the Master of Coin is letting money be wasted in the dungeons. Why?

 

[cape_royds]

I think Baelish wants the throne for himself. That's the ultimate goal of all his plotting.

Now I know that Baelish often acts all sceptical about holding a position of open responsibility, and how he really likes to just be behind the scenes exercising power, but I think that's in the end just a pretense.

Why? Because one thing Littlefinger is very touchy about, and that's his humble origin. We all know that Cat is his Achilles heel. And why did Littlefinger not get Cat (in his opinion, at any rate)? Because Hoster High-and-Mighty looked down on Littlefinger's sheep-pellet estate.

I think Littlefinger wants to eff over all the Great Houses, and leave them all grovelling before him, after he takes the Iron Throne using nothing but his wits.

So I don't think that Baelish and Varys are true allies--they're just an uneasy marriage of convenience, since they both want to weaken many of the Great Houses.

 

[TK-421]

So does Littlefinger know about Jon and him being a Targ *******? Putting a ******* on the throne would certainly "eff" all over the Great Houses.

 

[DeannaBelle]

I don't think Littlefinger knows about Jon.

Also, Littlefinger is not pro-anything except pro-Littlefinger.

Varys is one of my favorite characters just because I couldn't figure himout for a while. And I never know his next step.

SO, if Jorah was hired by Varys, and Varys is proTarg, maybe Jorah can be pardoned. One the other hand, Jorah may not have known where Varys' loyalties lay, and he just wanted gold...

 

[DeannaBelle]

I do like the idea of putting a ******* on the throne to "eff" over all the great houses!

In the first book, I wanted Gendry to be crowned so he could "eff" Jofferey. But Gendry is also a whiney, sulky brat of sorts.