The Final Fantasy Series Thread

[Mithridelle]

I have to agree with Sephy on a few points.

Yes, Ultima Weapon was the greatest (although I got it as soon as I could so its 'no materia growth' annoyed the hell out of me) Also yes, the break damage limit was insane. It killed the strongest monsters and bosses in a few hits at most.

Do it Sephy! I'm sure that we would all like to hear your point of veiw on FFVII's story. It made sense to me though...

I am going to be fine with the remake, because I understand that while things are probably going to get skewed and messed with (probably to focus on high graphics and what-not) it is onlya remake and not the original. The remake could not surpass it in my mind and I shall remain dedicated to the original.
I just worry that the music will be messed with, the tiny details that make up the game will be lost in the bigger picture and that they will cut out great small scenes that totally take away what makes FFVII the best FF game.
And the original FFVII was such a step forward in the world of RPG graphics.

*le sigh*

We could go on forever about this topic...

 

[Commonmind]

Alas Mithridelle, we already have

 

[Mithridelle]

Indeed. The remake gets any FFVII fans heart a flutter...

For better or for worse is up to them.

 

[Commonmind]

Aye, very true.

 

[Cayal]

Why you all talking like Scottish folk?

 

[Mithridelle]

Not everyone, just Commonmind.

 

[Cayal]

Not everyone, just Commonmind.

Well you did *le sigh*. Why you emoting in french?

 

[Mithridelle]

An odd habit of mine. Try not to let it bother you too much, alright?

 

[Commonmind]

Why you all talking like Scottish folk?

I had haggis this morning. That's my excuse.

 

[Lucien21]

Are you enjoying the airflow from your new Kilt?

Their's a moose loose aboot this hoose.

 

[Thadlerian]

Thadlerian- do you play many other RPGs? I've found, for all their flaws, the FF games are a cut above the others in story depth.

I've played Knights of the Old Republic one and two. One had a fair storyline, except for the trite Bastila love affair. The second was abysmal. I find that with game storylines, I have to use a certain amount of goodwill to convince myself that I've been moved. I mean, Kharak in Homeworld and Saavedro in Myst 3 send chills down my spine, but at the same time I know they're all package and no content.

Same with FFVII, in which I found the most moving content to be Barret's confrontation with Dyne, as well as Cid's memory of the rocket launch, and Sierra's (it was mistranslated Shera) role in it.

I'd rate them rather higher than HDM and Earthsea, but to each their own, I guess...

Yeah, I guess. I can hardly imagine games catching up with even mediocre books in at least a few decades. As for getting to His Dark Materials or Earthsea level - millenniae. Seriously.

Doesn't mean I'll stop playing FF, though
I'm replaying FFVIII with minimal leveling, and will move on to IX again afterwards to restart (lost my game save). Later I will borrow a PS2 and see if I can find X and XII second-hand. I'm still willingly harbouring high illusions about FFX, what with those cutscenes and the amazing Zanarkand theme

 

[Sephiroth]

Your original post was interesting, Thadlerian. I agree with some of what you say about FFVII, and some of it I disagree with. I'll be posting my own thoughts on the story soon enough.


With regard to the wider point about books vs. video games, though -- isn't it an unfair comparison?

IMO, even a fantastic movie struggles to stand up to a mediocre book. I'm not sure it's a case of 'catching up', so much as it's a case of the media involved, and for the time being, I'd say movies are a fairer comparison. Or perhaps games fall somewhere in between?

Having said that, the scope of the interactive experience offered by games these days, with potentially hundreds of hours of gameplay, should perhaps mean that more can be achieved. But books aren't written by massive teams of people working for large corporations, they're written by artists. Yeah, or hacks, but you get the point...

So I'm not sure that video games will ever be able to offer an experience that compares favourably with reading a good book in terms of depth and nuance of plot, characterisation, etc. At least, not in the current creative climate.



X is a really good game. Like the others, it has its flaws, some of them serious, but I'd heartily recommend it. And yes, the music is wonderful. Nobuo's last goodbye.... *sniff*

I shall say no more than that, but I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.





(As for XII....meh. But I'll let you make up your own mind there.)

 

[Cayal]

Oh my god.

X SUCKED. It was just horrible.

XII rates close to VII

My opinion

 

[Commonmind]

I think any comparisons being drawn between the different entertainment mediums is rather unfair.

Of course it's difficult for a book to deliver the same type of depth of character, or complexity of plot as a film. But than a book can't evoke the same types of emotions one experiences while watching the look in a man's eyes when he knows he's going to die; while seeing the unspoken attraction of two people, staring at one another across a room; a novel's themes cannot be portrayed through the use of color, as Stanley Kubrick sometimes told his stories -- and which novel can recreate those scenes from the Godfather that used cinematography and a simple score to bring a man to tears.

It's often said that a film does not do a novel justice, and too often it's forgotten that film does something entirely different and that, to be truly enjoyed, it needs to be understood that it's a different medium altogether. Draw comparisons if you will, but I believe anyone who does so is selling themselves short, and missing out on a truly engaging experience by going into that experience with certain expectations, or rather, reservations, because they believe that film is inherently inferior because of the way its stories are told.

I don't believe games fall between the two, Seph, because I don't believe we can quantify entertainment mediums on a linearity, as if there's one experience placed "here" and one "here" and one "there." Because that almost insinuates that something is better, or worse, or average. Games can be evocative in ways movies and books cannot; they deliver an interactive experience, and when done well, they can cause a player to think in ways so different than if he were watching a film, or reading a book. There was a moment in Bioshock, that I can think of, where I actually made a decision based on my own moral structure and it made me feel good about myself; such a simple thing, but that is immeasurable -- I've never decided the outcome of a movie or made a choice that changed the experience of reading a book, and I've certainly never had to look inside myself and ask, "What kind of person am I, really? Do I kill this girl, or save her, and sacrifice the quality of my own survival?"

 

[Sephiroth]

I can't really argue with any of your points there, CM.


I was looking at things too narrowly, considering mainly the superior ability of language to convey complex or nuanced themes/ideas. Call it 'writer's bias' if you will. ;p

But yes, each medium can do things that the others can't, and it is perhaps unfair to try and draw direct comparisons.

(I take it 'book' and 'film' were supposed to be the other way around in your first sentence, though?)

A minor point -- a novel's themes can be portrayed through the use of colour, but admittedly not wholly through the use of colour...but such symbolism works in text, too (you just 'see' the colours in your mind, instead, and you have to be told about them).


But yes, yet again, I pretty much agree with everything you've said. Heh.


Your final point is the most salient, I think, when it comes to thinking about what video games can offer that neither books nor movies can. The interactive element makes 'you' the hero in a way that is simply impossible in the other media.












Oh, and LOL, Cayal.

Well, opinions are what makes the world go 'round, as they say.

X is my third favourite after VII and VI (albeit a looong way behind those two). I felt that the story was one of its weaker elements overall, but I loved the gameplay. The fighting in X is the closest they've come to perfection, IMO. And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, it was worth it for the Monster Arena and Dark Aeons alone.

XII...gah.

 

[Thadlerian]

With regard to the wider point about books vs. video games, though -- isn't it an unfair comparison?

I don't think it is. I don't think good storytelling is a matter of format, it's more about what you do with what you have. There is no such thing as cheating in art, remember. You can make something profound with pink styrofoam if you just got a good idea. A computer game, with all its possibilities, should offer great opportunity, especially as linear a game as Final Fantasy.

 

[Cayal]

I think not either. Movies have a time limit. Books and games really don't. They have their own unique way of telling it but I think it is an apt comparison.

 

[Lioness]

Oh my god.

X SUCKED. It was just horrible.

Why is that?

 

[Commonmind]

(I take it 'book' and 'film' were supposed to be the other way around in your first sentence, though?)

This is why I really need to start reading what I've written before I hit the post button. I type everything in the quick reply box and just let it all hang out, as the saying goes -- often to my detriment

 

[Sephiroth]

I don't think it is. I don't think good storytelling is a matter of format, it's more about what you do with what you have. There is no such thing as cheating in art, remember. You can make something profound with pink styrofoam if you just got a good idea. A computer game, with all its possibilities, should offer great opportunity, especially as linear a game as Final Fantasy.

I think not either. Movies have a time limit. Books and games really don't. They have their own unique way of telling it but I think it is an apt comparison.

Okay, okay, so it is fair to compare, but not directly (as CM pointed out, and at which Thadlerian has hinted).

So, mind-bogglinglly, I can be wrong twice on the same subject, and from different sides of the debate?



Maybe I, too, should consider what I'm posting before doing so? ;p