7.18: Heroes - Part Two

Discussion in 'Stargate SG-1 Season 7' started by Rowan, Jun 25, 2003.

  1.  
    Rowan

    Rowan New Member

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    7.15: Heros - Part Two

    Spoilers for this upcoming episode can be found at "Heroes"

    My thanks to SG-1 Solutions for the link.

    Rowan
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    Dave

    Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Staff Member

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    Okay, this is the episode with the death and all the action and it is a great conclusion to part one.

    It starts with SG-1 going to the aid of SG-13 and being ambushed. Maybe it was me but the special effects were not as good as usual. It really reminded me of that fan film from last year "Call it a Stargate", with the obviously-super-imposed gliders flying past and staff weapon fire.

    Jack gets shot, Airman Wells gets shot, but we are left vague about what has happened, though we know someone close has died. The intention would be to make us think it was Jack, but the spoilers have spoilt that.

    There is to be a funeral. Sam is asked to say something, but has difficulty finding the words until Teal'c gives her an idea.

    Next Robert Picardo turns up as some kind defense accountant for Kinsey to investigate why the SGC spends so much money and how someone got killed. Everyone wants to talk to him even less than they did to the camera.

    This was one of those nights when the phone won't stop ringing etc and I missed some of the detail that happened next.

    Saul the film-maker tells Daniel a little story about a picture someone once took of a man dying. Daniel has a video that he took on the mission and Saul wants to use it in his film. He eventually gets his way, then we find out who really died. The story gets to Daniel and in the end he decides that it ought to be used. The film becomes an obituary, Hammond even orders Jack to add his comments.

    Would the military funeral really have been at the SGC? It being top secret etc. I would have expected it to be somewhere that relatives could have attended too, not in the Gateroom in front of the Gate.

    Should they not have done the same for Daniel? Or did they? Or is he classed as a civilian? Or is it because they knew he had ascended?
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    beckmen

    beckmen First Prime of Burgstrom

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    Yeah, it was because they didn't know if he was dead or not.
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    Nick 0208 Ldn

    Nick 0208 Ldn J/T Shipper

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    I give this episode **** V Good ep

    I turned over for a football update at the beginning so missed a few minutes there but from what i saw of the ambush the special effects seemed ok to me.

    One detail i feel i should bring up is that when Sam went to see Jack [this was the first time we saw him in the ep too] as he was now up and about there was another one of those touching Jack/Sam moments where post petegate some emotion bubbled to the surface. hmmmmm

    There was one thing which i knew that was going to happen at the endwhere Airman Wells's baby was a girl and Daniel asked what her name was, i said Janet before they did.

    I have a question, killing off Janet, was this a major event on the part of the writers or was it a contractual issue etc

    So do you think they will replace her with someone new and permenantly or use one of the previously seen Doctors from the early seasons like Dr Mckenzie or whatever he was called.

    On the funeral in the Gate room, well wasn't it a memorial and also if Kassandra was the only next of kin then it might not be an issue.

    I'm pleased with how they went about the episode.

    Nick,
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    pamie

    pamie Space Monkey!

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    When I was at the convention SG6 Teryl was there and when asked she said that if she was killed off (as she would not tell us if it was true at that point) she said that it would not have been her choice to be killed off. But then I read in a magazine that she was happy that she was killed off in the way of being in the line of duty.

    I thought this was a really good episode albeit really sad but a good one never the less :D
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    Dave

    Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Staff Member

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    killing off characters or having them go away

    I often think that series make a mistake when they kill off a character. Usually, they end up making some very poor excuses to bring them back again eg. Daniel Jackson in Stargate, Spock and Tasha Yar in Star Trek, Bobby Ewing in Dallas.

    Far better to have some excuse why they went away to do something else. In real life, people move on all the time due to family situations and promotion.

    However, if Teryl is really so busy that she cannot appear in Stargate, then they do need a Doctor character. So many of the episodes have had some medical element in them that a Doctor character is essential. Look at the list of people she saved. Then there is all the technobabble about symbiotes and larvae and ketonin! Someone needs to spout it.

    If they had to kill her off, then this was the very best way to do it.
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    tatter

    tatter Member

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    haven't seen the epi yet, just was able to download it. i kept hoping that all the rumor mills were wrong and they didn't knock off janet. oh well. besides missing the her in the doc parts there isn't any other long running female characters except sam.:mad:
    :dead:
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    beckmen

    beckmen First Prime of Burgstrom

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    Hey, killing off Sheridan in B5 worked well IMO.
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    skydiver

    skydiver Trivia Goddess

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    this was a very good episode, very emotional and touching.

    and i really wish that news of janet's demise hadn't have been leaked all those months ago. at a certain point, you really think that it's wells, the lovely redshirt that buys it...then WHAMMO, janet's gone. just that fast and totally out of the blue and with a suddenness and violence that catches you totally off guard.

    we get our first hints of what else is to come in the later part of the season, some fantastic emotional moments by all the actors
    everyone deals in their own way and i found the scene of daniel in the infirmary particularly heart breaking.

    about the only thing that ws missing was actually seeing cassie rather than just hearing about her (hey, at least they didn't totally forget her)

    as to the memorial service...it was just that, a memorial service. presuming they brought her body back, i'm sure there was a funeral service for the public/family

    PdL really outdid himself on this one
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    Falcon Horus

    Falcon Horus Keeper of the Gate

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    My opinion on Heroes II

    Heroes is truely and utterly beautiful, there are no other words for it !!

    I really really loved it!!

    A minor issue was Cassie's absence (only briefly mentioned). I think the scene where Daniel is huddled up in that corner is the most heartbreaking of them all.

    And the baby being called Janet....I knew that. I was like 'Yessss'...
    I had some really strange moments where I was literally cheering instead of crying out that it wasn't fair.

    Anyways, these ones (Heroes I and II) are definitely my most favorite eps until now.

    Greetz ;)
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    Els

    Els Member

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    Confused

    You're also from Belgium, right ?
    How come you have seen episodes from season 7 ? I'm still desperately waiting to see the first one... :(
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    RouTaran

    RouTaran New Member

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    I thought this was a very good episode. In the first episode, with Saul, we all think he's another one of those stupid journalists that are there just to annoy and get in the way. But he does seem to be dedicated and then with this little speech after sam runs into the room crying, i was like "respect." It was a good to have a reminder that there are some people out there who do it for the right reasons.

    One thing I didnt like about the episode was Sam crying all the time. I realize that it was mainly to make us think that it was Jack who had bought it but still, she's a tough kid, mom died when she was young, dad was distant, all boyfriends get creamed also. You'd think she'd be a little tougher inside.
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    RangerOne SG13 SOR

    RangerOne SG13 SOR New Member

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    Well I after watching Heroes part 1 and especially part 2 I gotta say..

    Brilliant, that has to be the best story weve had from the writers for a long long time.

    Series 7 had been pretty good but that was just magic.

    :)


    Ranger
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    RaTY

    RaTY Tok'Tau'ri High Commander

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    I really loved this episode.
    Best story in 3 seasons. Maybe 4.

    Loved having 'the doctor' make an appearance in the episode where janet died.
    Can they find a race that has advanced holograms and make a new janet? :D
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    Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut WELCOME HOME, DR. JACKSON

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    Sorry to be out of step here, but I thought it was a dreadful episode, full of plot holes and a lack of research, and I'm not talking nit-picks here.

    1. Why did S.G.-13 hang around after they'd been fired on by the probe? (And why can't T.P.T.B. write good team dialogue for S.G.-1 any more if they can do it for them?) A reasonably bright 10-year-old could have worked it out:

    a) It's a PROBE. What do probes do? They collect information and transmit it constantly back to base.
    b) It's firing as me. This is a hostile act, ergo it's an ENEMY
    c) Putting a) and b) together, the enemy now knows we're here and a sizeable force will no doubt be heading our way very shortly.
    d) Best course of action? Get the hell out of Dodge and let the geeks monitor the situation via the M.A.L.P. and/or U.A.V.

    2. Why did it take SuperSam and Daniel so long to arrive at this same conclusion?

    3. S.G.-13 not having the street smarts to get out while the getting was good, and Sam and Dan having failed to put two and two together fast enough, why take the unjustifiable decision to send, not just a physcian, but the base's Chief Medical Officer out into a known combat zone?

    I have it on excellent authority that you just don't do this! In fact, if there are any physicians in a combat zone, they're pulled back P.D.Q. The expertise of someone like Janet is way too valuable to risk throwing away as hers was. Casualties are treated in the first instance by combat medics trained for just that sort of emergency. And dammit, Janet didn't even have a helmet!

    4. Why did they send only send two S.G. teams to rescue S.G.-13 against superior odds? Granted one team was S.G.-1, but even so...

    5. It's a very old cinema cliché to try to con. the audience into thinking someone other than the actual victim has died. Heck, T.P.T.B. used it themselves a couple of episodes back in 'Death Knell' when the Super Soldier was apparently creeping up on Sam. :rolleyes:

    It also left a very nasty taste in the mouth that they thought, 'let's make the audience feel really bad that the great Jack O'Neill has died, keep them on tenterhooks for most of the episode then, when they find out it's only Janet, they'll be so relieved and delighted.

    For the record, T.R. did not want to leave.

    6. Much as one disliked the N.I.D. inspector, he was quiet right. Bad decisions had been made and I think courts-martial are in order.

    7. The aftermath:

    a) "Cassie's a strong kid; she'll cope", yet Sam can't manage without a 'shippy hug from her C.O.
    b) Daniel's left alone in the room in which Janet tried to save his life in 'Meridian', yet there's no one to give him any comfort or sympathy, despite the fact that Janet actually died right in front of him.

    Bad writer. No biscuit. :mad:

    Best wishes,
    Hatshepsut :wave:

    P.S. No complaints about the acting, just the plot - and, of course, the inexcusable and indefensible killing off of yet another popular recurring character! :angryfire
    --
  16.  
    Falcon Horus

    Falcon Horus Keeper of the Gate

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    Well Hatshepsut, I may have liked the episode but after reading your little rambling....I think I'm totally with you.

    Greetz ;)
  17.  
    beckmen

    beckmen First Prime of Burgstrom

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    People die, expecially at the SGC. SG teams are ALWAYS getting killed in this show, yet none of the major charecters ever buy it? I think it's realistic to be killing people off, bringing in new charecters, ect. I guess for THIS show it's excusable that nobody dies though, it's a more light-hearted show.
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    Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut WELCOME HOME, DR. JACKSON

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    Yes, it's realistic that people die, but not in this instance.

    S.G.-13 should've legged it at the first sign of trouble, i.e. being shot at by the probe. Not to do so was to put others at risk besides the team. They weren't in a position at that time that they couldn't get out and needed rescuing, so that was bad command decision #1.

    To send Janet into a combat zone was against S.O.P., and as such culpably stupid and bad command decision #2. No General of Hammond's experience would have done so. That was just totally unbelievable. :rolleyes: :angryfire

    The traditional fodder for getting wiped out is the 'red shirts' in whom one has no emotional investment. This is just a T.V. show, F.C.O.L. People watch it for escapist entertainment. Too many people have died for real in my life for me to find it in the least bit entertaining to watch characters I care about being sensely and inexcusably slaughtered. :( It's not clever and it's not funny. :mad:

    Best wishes,
    Hatshepsut :wave:

    P.S. Hi, F.H. and greetz to you too. :D
    --
  19.  
    beckmen

    beckmen First Prime of Burgstrom

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    Well, having actually seen the episode I can agree that Janet's death was a bit random. Most of the time in drama when someone dies it's at the hands of a recurring enemy, or to save the main charecters or something. But, I still think that it was a good episode with some powerful performances.

    I liked it better than Heroes 1. I liked the way everyone was reacting, and Sam's crying/angry part when Saul was accosting her in the hallway was great.
  20.  
    Dave

    Dave Wherever I Am, I'm There Staff Member

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    I think that the 'creators' were trying to make a moralistic point; that not all heroes are John Wayne, going out in a 'blaze of glory', but instead just normal people who risk their lives everyday, such as the 9/11 New York Firemen.

    Hatshepsut has made a very forceful argument that they were "being sensely and inexcusably slaughtered" because of a "bad command decision" which tends not to make that point at all, but more like the one made by the Battle of the Somme and the Charge of the Light Brigade.

    Somehow though, I think its very unlikely we'll see General Hammond face a courts martial. :D

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