7.21: End of Days

[obcooke]

Faith goes boom...

Buffy's got a brand new bag... well, a scythe actually. And it's pretty good at clearing up a pesky Ubervamp problem.

 

[Highlander II]

Things were moving along smoothly - right as rain until Anya and Andrew were talking in the hospital (think that's when it happened) - damn if UPN didn't run that stupid thing again! I hate my local network!


Anyway ---


The note -- did I say "I was here with you"??? I was kinda confused - apparently, so was Spike - b/c he came in ranting and fussing and telling Buffy she was 'shirty' - whatever the hell that means - if Spike even knows --

The whole conversation that started like this:

Buffy: "You're a dope."
Spike: "I'm a what?"

liked that - but, I always like when Spike gets to do emotional stuff - James has the face for it!

So - Buffy got the big pointy sharp stick, Willow won't help figure out what it is w/ magic --

Buffy goes to see some old woman who's a 'guardian' --

Oh hoho -- guess what we find out?? Those Shadowmen? They became the Watchers -- hmmmmm - maybe Giles isn't as wholesome and librarian as we thought. Maybe Ripper is more what he really is - even as a Watcher.... hmmmmmmmmm

Loved this:

Guardian: What's your name?
Buffy: Buffy.
Guardian: No, really.

hahahahahaha!!! That was hilarious! couldn't stop laughing - this show is great at makin' fun of itself...

Dude! Dawn tasered Xander! And she can drive? Or, um, is she the first? or something? What's going on with her? And did Buffy really think she could get Dawn to stay gone? uh -- B - you're not real bright here on the people front.

Buffy - can I just say how WRONG that was! What she did! OMG! After that speech to Spike about whatever-the-hell-it-was-that -happened-last-night -- and she's kissing Angel? And don't say 'well, she didn't know Spike was there' - so what? she knows how Spike feels (and if she doesn't she's a bloody idiot) and she decides to play kissy-face w/ Angel? I mean - yeah - ok - they were really close before he left, but COME ON! Angel - 'scuse me, babe, but aren't you in love with Cordelia? I mean, when she's not all evil and spawning a weird baby? and Buffy - didn't you just have a lovely chat w/ Mr. Spike about how he gave you strength? I dunno 'bout you - but if someone gave me that speech then ran off to suck face w/ their ex- I'd be mightily ticked off!

would say 'ooh, maybe Spike'll get to be the 'Big Bad' - but that would mean he'd have to die - and I don't want that -- so, B - keep fighting the first, but stop ticking off your 'strongest warrior' ---

 

[slayerette]

OMG! What was Buffy thinking ?
That's just great, now spikes going to go over to the 1st for the very end of the series. Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
& Dawn, yuck!!!
Well, Life after Buffy, starts next week....sad face

 

[obcooke]

[Originally posted by Highlander II: - damn if UPN didn't run that stupid thing again! I hate my local network!]

I'm not sure what thing they are doing that's so irritating, but it can't compare to what my local UPN station did tonight.

In conjunction with a radio station they had a little figure of a local female disc jockey appear at the bottom of the screen and wave a stake over her head. We were supposed to count the number of times she appeared and take part in a call-in contest tomorrow morning on the radio station.

This damn 3-4 inch tall b***** must have popped up a half a dozen times during the show, including once during Spike & Buffy's talk in the kitchen! During Buffy & Caleb's face-off near the end, she appeared and threw a stake across the bottom of the screen at a dopey looking vampire figure.

It was terribly distracting and ruined my recording of the show.

========

[Originally posted by Highlander II: Those Shadowmen? They became the Watchers ]

Yeah, but Joss has kinda confused the whole thing. I mean, Giles says in "Restless" that The First Slayer didn't have a Watcher. So did they create her and then not train her?

And when did the Guardians come in? Are they just a female version of The Watchers who feel that they have a special connection because of their gender? The Watcher's came first and they have female members. Giles' grandmother was one. Although I have always assumed it was a male-dominated society.

It's kind of a shame that they introduce such a novel new element to the legend so late that they don't have time to explain how it all fits together.

=========

[Originally posted by Highlander II: Loved this:

Guardian: What's your name?
Buffy: Buffy.
Guardian: No, really.]

Yeah, it was a laugh-out-loud moment, but they did kind of telegraph it by how slow Buffy was to respond. It gave us a chance to see that one coming.

=========

[Originally posted by Highlander II: Dude! Dawn tasered Xander! And she can drive?...]

That was a surprise, but come on - she didn't even move Xander out of the driver's seat!! How can a girl her size manage to steer, brake and accelerate (and so smoothly) with Xander sitting in way?

Now, we're left to wonder, once more, about how Buffy might turn against Dawn and what part the ex-Key might play in the battle of the Hellmouth.

=========

[Originally posted by Highlander II: Buffy - can I just say how WRONG that was! What she did! OMG!]

What can I say? If Buffy and Angel are wrong then I don't want them to be right. They belong together and that's that. It's just the demands of being on different shows that dictate that their fates diverge, but in a perfect Buffy-verse they would be a couple inseparable by time and space.

=========

[Originally posted by Highlander II: ...but stop ticking off your 'strongest warrior']

"Strongest warrior"? Didn't you see Angel lay out Caleb with one punch? Put him down long enough for Buffy to catch her breath and took her breath away at the same time.

========

And let me just say that I'm glad to see the Fantastic Four together again. I complained last week that as the end nears I wanted to see the Scoobies together, not torn apart.

I was a little disappointed that in the scene with Willow and Giles that Giles didn't play a more supportive role. When Willow confesses (again) her fears of strong magic, Giles just kind of says "Oh, well." I wanted him to talk to her like he used to talk to Buffy about how he had confidence in her and how she's overcome so much and that she can combine power and compassion to achieve anything. After all if Giles can't be counted on for an inspiring speech than maybe it really is time to end the story.

 

[JonahBlack]

My main gripe about this episode is that, whatever that weapon is, it is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike a scythe.

In fact (and here's where we show that Jonah is a D&D geek), it bares a striking resemblance to a Dwarven Urgosh...

 

[Highlander II]

Originally posted by obcooke
[Originally posted by Highlander II: - damn if UPN didn't run that stupid thing again! I hate my local network!]

I'm not sure what thing they are doing that's so irritating, but it can't compare to what my local UPN station did tonight.

In conjunction with a radio station they had a little figure of a local female disc jockey appear at the bottom of the screen and wave a stake over her head. We were supposed to count the number of times she appeared and take part in a call-in contest tomorrow morning on the radio station.

This damn 3-4 inch tall b***** must have popped up a half a dozen times during the show, including once during Spike & Buffy's talk in the kitchen! During Buffy & Caleb's face-off near the end, she appeared and threw a stake across the bottom of the screen at a dopey looking vampire figure.

It was terribly distracting and ruined my recording of the show.

Not quite that bad - it's a 45 second string of garbage that says 'call in and be caller 24 to win a chance in a drawing for a RCA HDTV to be given away 5/23' -- what makes it almost as bad as your little chick w/ the stake - is that this is the 3rd week in a row they've done this! And I'm PRAYING they don't do it next week!! So, I'm gonna ask my friend w/ a sat - to tape it for me so I can have a copy w/o stupid garbage in it --



========

Originally posted by obcooke
[Originally posted by Highlander II: Those Shadowmen? They became the Watchers ]

Yeah, but Joss has kinda confused the whole thing. I mean, Giles says in "Restless" that The First Slayer didn't have a Watcher. So did they create her and then not train her?

And when did the Guardians come in? Are they just a female version of The Watchers who feel that they have a special connection because of their gender? The Watcher's came first and they have female members. Giles' grandmother was one. Although I have always assumed it was a male-dominated society.

It's kind of a shame that they introduce such a novel new element to the legend so late that they don't have time to explain how it all fits together.

Maybe it's a 'Ripper' set up? Or part of a spin-off set up?

I thought the Guardian chic said that she was a Slayer at one point - or, maybe a potential - I'll have to watch again -

And right, the first Slayer didn't have a Watcher - b/c the Shadowmen made her -- maybe they became the Watchers after that - so they could 'see' what they'd done, or they decided after that first Slayer died that they needed to 'train' the next one - or maybe the Watcher diaries / histories were wrong -


=========

Originally posted by obcooke
[Originally posted by Highlander II: Loved this:

Guardian: What's your name?
Buffy: Buffy.
Guardian: No, really.]

Yeah, it was a laugh-out-loud moment, but they did kind of telegraph it by how slow Buffy was to respond. It gave us a chance to see that one coming.

Yeah - but it was still funny!


=========

Originally posted by obcooke
[Originally posted by Highlander II: Dude! Dawn tasered Xander! And she can drive?...]

That was a surprise, but come on - she didn't even move Xander out of the driver's seat!! How can a girl her size manage to steer, brake and accelerate (and so smoothly) with Xander sitting in way?

Now, we're left to wonder, once more, about how Buffy might turn against Dawn and what part the ex-Key might play in the battle of the Hellmouth.

Yep - here we go again - roller coaster of love --- maybe Dawn's a stunt driver in her spare time?


=========

Originally posted by obcooke
[Originally posted by Highlander II: Buffy - can I just say how WRONG that was! What she did! OMG!]

What can I say? If Buffy and Angel are wrong then I don't want them to be right. They belong together and that's that. It's just the demands of being on different shows that dictate that their fates diverge, but in a perfect Buffy-verse they would be a couple inseparable by time and space.

No - not Buffy and Angel being together -- the fact that she said all that stuff to Spike then turned around and laid one on Angel - I mean - geeeeeez -- no wonder she can't keep a boyfriend...


=========

Originally posted by obcooke
[Originally posted by Highlander II: ...but stop ticking off your 'strongest warrior']

"Strongest warrior"? Didn't you see Angel lay out Caleb with one punch? Put him down long enough for Buffy to catch her breath and took her breath away at the same time. [

Yeah - but remember,

Spoiler

Angel had that little bauble from W&H

(that Buffy doesn't know about yet) -- and back in Five by Five he told Buffy that she was a little stronger than him --

What I was referring to, actually, was Buffy's constant reminders to everyone that "Spike is the strongest warrior we have" -- she's said it numerous times since he stopped being crazy in the basement - but she keeps making him angry - and he's gonna stomp off and leave if she doesn't stop it --


========

Originally posted by obcooke
And let me just say that I'm glad to see the Fantastic Four together again. I complained last week that as the end nears I wanted to see the Scoobies together, not torn apart.

I was a little disappointed that in the scene with Willow and Giles that Giles didn't play a more supportive role. When Willow confesses (again) her fears of strong magic, Giles just kind of says "Oh, well." I wanted him to talk to her like he used to talk to Buffy about how he had confidence in her and how she's overcome so much and that she can combine power and compassion to achieve anything. After all if Giles can't be counted on for an inspiring speech than maybe it really is time to end the story.

Yeah - I was kinda confused about Giles there too --- which is why I'm wondering just who exactly the Watchers are --

Maybe they ARE there to control the Slayers - and Buffy wasn't on their radar, and she never listened to her watcher - so she's 'different' and they want to get rid of her so they can get their slayers back in line - problem is, they'd have to off Faith too - b/c she's not takin' orders from anyone --

Maybe the Watchers sent the First - yeah, Quentin was saying something about fighting them, but maybe there are rogue Watchers? I dunno --- there could be all kinds of explanations -- I'm just hoping we GET one...

 

[obcooke]

[Originally posted by Highlander II: Spike - b/c he came in ranting and fussing and telling Buffy she was 'shirty' - whatever the hell that means - if Spike even knows --]

Actually, I finally got around to looking this one up.

According to the English slang and colloquialisms used in the United Kingdom website.

shirty - Adj. Ill-tempered. E.g."Pete got all shirty with me when I didn't invite him for dinner." {Informal}

 

[Highlander II]

Thanx, Ob! -- the research man!

Are you sure you're name isn't really Giles??

 

[Tabitha]

LOL at you two and "Shirty"! Very occasionally the writers get the English slang ever so slightly wrong, but it definitely worked fine in this instance.

I am also very interested in those women. If they did say they were former slayers or potentials then this would make a lot of sense. Remeber how Kendra said she had been given to her watcher at a very early age to train? I guess this must happen quite a lot - I wonder how many of the potentials knew they were potentials before they were offed or dragged to Sunnydale?

Anyhoo, all that training and inside information that potentials must pick up would be hard to shrug off in later life - it wouldn't be hard to imagine some of these girls becoming actual watchers, and what if there is some kind of unpleasant vibe to the watchers? Wellll, it makes even more sense that there might be some kind of anti-watcher organisation made up of these potentials to counter it.

I would love to see this explored further.

 

[little smaug]

Ding dong, the priest is dead! Though actaully, i was just starting to like him. I think they introduced Caleb too late in the season.

I thought this episode was pretty good, but there are a couple of things i fancy a rant about.

Firstly, the thing with Dawn and Xander in the car:
Where did Dawn get a taser from? I guess its possible that Riley left one from the initiative, but why would it be in Xander's car?
Where did Xander get chloroform from? Its not exactly something you find around the house.
How did Dawn manage to stop the car with Xander in the drivers seat? And how did she manage to swap seats with him, without getting out of the car, in the space of about 3 seconds? This bit was totally unbelieveable. Though i am glad that Xander is going to be around for the finale, we need the whole gang back together again.

Secondly, Buffy and Caleb's fight at the end. It was the same as in "Showtime" - Buffy is completely getting her butt kicked by Caleb, then just because Angel shows up, she can kill him without even breaking a sweat!

Ok, ranting over. On to things i liked.

Anya and Jonathan. Those two make such a great double act to watch, especially when they were treating the potential, that was hilarious!

Anya: Many of these girls will die. Slaughterhouse is what it
is.
Potential: What?!
Anya: Oh… trying to talk will just kill you sooner. :laugh2:

The Angel thing. I have to admit, i cheered when he showed up. But the kiss was totally uncalled for. They have both moved on, been with other people etc, yet when they meet up they act like nothing has changed. I think a hug would have been quite sufficient!
Now a lot of people seem to think this means Spike will go over to the other side, but i don't think he will. I think, in the big battle, he will sacrifice himself to save Buffy's life, thus proving his love for her. And i am now making myself feel sick, so i'll just shut up.

Oh, one other question - what happened to Wood in this episode? Was he just not around, or did i miss something?
Make that 2 more questions - the scythe thing. Giles said something like it was 3 weapons in one. But i only count the blade and the stakey bit at the end. So whats the other part?

 

[Highlander II]

Dawn and Xander in the car ---

the taser is still a mystery, but I guess it could have been in Xander's car as a weapon for emergencies - or it could have been Anya's - who knows --

chloroform - yeah - not sure on that one either - unless Willow whipped some up w/ her chemistry set -

The card bit ---- I think the whole 'Dawn staying in the car' thing was to save filming time -- the car stops and I think we're supposed to believe that she shoved Xander to the passenger side and she slid into the driver's seat in those few seconds when they were stopped (I went back and watched it again b/c this was buggin' me too) -- it's a stretch of the imagination considering neither of them moves and they're both sitting straight up when the car stops and begins its U-turn - but I think that's what we're *supposed* to believe --


The Scythe - yep - still lost on that two -- the axe end, the pointy-wooden stake end - and --- the other part? dunno ---

I knew Angel was gonna show (knew that from waaaaay back at the beginning of the season - was one of about 2 spoilers that I had) -- but - the kiss thing was just weird - tho - it's exactly what those two do every time they're together after having been apart for any extended length of time --- cliche much?

Spike --- well - he just looked really ticked off --

(that's all I'll say about him - anything else would be spoilery)

 

[VAMPette]

well, Buffy's got a brand new toy...and we finally know what happened Miss Kitty Fantastico - loved that bit, although actually v. sad...and Angel's back - yay...although can't blame Spike for being a bit miffed. The kiss was a bit unexpected and to be honest a bit unbelievable - even if both hadn't put so much distance between them and been with other peopleand gave into their feelings in the heat of the moment, it's kind of ackward meeting your ex - not often you just fall into each other's arms. What I want to know is - if Spike was watching the whole time, why didn't he step forward and help Buffy? Aah, the magic of plot conventions....other good bits - Anya and her florence nightingale act lol Spike's speech to Buffy - so sweet. Lets hope he wrecks his merry revenge next week!

 

[Highlander II]

Well - *suspend disbelief here a little* - there is the possibility that Spike didn't show up until the end of the fight, so, it was mostly over by the time he got there -- OR -- he got there about the time Angel showed up and he wanted to know what Buffy would do - Spike's sneaky like that - soul or no soul ---

 

[obcooke]

[Originally posted by little smaug:

Firstly, the thing with Dawn and Xander in the car: Where did Dawn get a taser from?

I assume she was carrying it in her purse, but that is a new toy for her

Where did Xander get chloroform from?...

I thought maybe that he got it from Anya and Andrew after their visit to the hospital for supplies, but the storyline indicates that they were still at the hospital when he leaves. Maybe its an editing error.

How did Dawn manage to stop the car with Xander in the drivers seat?

That's not so hard, I've done that twice after mistakenly getting into a car with VERY drunk drivers. Admittedly, Dawn is a bit small, but you just reach over with your foot and press the brake as hard as you can.

And how did she manage to swap seats with him, without getting out of the car

[Highlander II: we're supposed to believe that she shoved Xander to the passenger side and she slid into the driver's seat]

I don't believe so. It seems that she managed to drive the car with Xander still in the driver's seat. I've watched it again and it seems clear that Dawn's head is leaning over from the passenger side and Xander's is still slumped back in the driver's seat.

This bit was totally unbelieveable.

Agreed.

- the scythe thing. Giles said something like it was 3 weapons in one. But i only count the blade and the stakey bit at the end. So whats the other part?]

Actually, Buffy says, "Kills strong bodies three ways." That's a parody of a commercial slogan for Wonder Bread a US product. They used to pitch their bread to mothers with the slogan, "Builds strong bodies three ways." Buffy may have just been copying the number three from the slogan.

But I guess you could count the way the point of the axe head (I still think of it as an axe and not a scythe.) juts out. You could actually stab people with either end and then slice them with the long side of the blade. (Not to mention clubbing them and choking them with the handle.)

[HighlanderII: I knew Angel was gonna show... - the kiss thing was just weird - tho - it's exactly what those two do every time they're together after having been apart for any extended length of time]

Yeah, I knew it too, but I still love the moment. The surprise appearance in the nick of time.. the swelling hero music... I love it. And those two crazy kids will never get each other out of their systems... Spike knew that at one time. "You'll be in love 'til it kills you both." He seems to have forgotton that little bit.

[VAMPette: ...and we finally know what happened Miss Kitty Fantastico]

I got a crazy idea, the last time we see Miss Kitty is in 4.22 and the first time we see Dawn is at the end of 5.01 which takes place several months later in Buffy time. I wonder if it's possible that Dawn accidentally killed Miss K before Dawn was created? What if Miss K disappeared and then Dawn was created and everyone remembers that Dawn accidentally killed her.

I know that's a crazy idea, but I just love playing with the paradox of Dawn's existance.

 

[Highlander II]

Or - what if Dawn *is* Miss Kitty Fantastico??

Sorry -that just jumped into my head when I read that idea -



I'll tackle the 'Spike watching Buffy and Angel kissing' thing a bit later -- have to do some work now ---


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

adding the 'Spike...' thing --

'Spike forgot' -- nice way of saying - 'oops - the writers screwed up again' --- Or, you could go w/ - he didn't forget, he just doesn't care. Spike's still selfish - even with a soul (having a soul doesn't make one selfless) - Spike wants what Spike wants and he doesn't give a rat's ass about what anyone else wants - 'cept *maybe* Buffy. And if he can't have it - well, he hasn't gone so far to say anything about that just yet…. (well, not in S7 really anyway). Spike wants Buffy - now, what exactly he wants from her? Still up in the air - does he want love? Forgiveness? Friendship? Fear and loathing in Las Vegas? Who knows… the point is - he wants Buffy - and with Angel in town, that just buggers up his plans, now doesn't it? Well, if he has any plans, but anyway - things aren't going his way - and Spike gets really upset when things don't go his way - and sometimes he can do some pretty bad things. And this is all just character explanation - not justification for anything that Spike does (and why I feel the need to qualify that is beyond me - but anyway…) Every time Angel shows up in the middle of Spike's plans - something goes wrong (not that Spike's plans work out beautifully when Angel's *not* around, but that's not the point) - so Spike already has a negative view on Angel, and now Angel's kissing the woman he's in love (lust) with? Not makin' Spike a happy-camper. And since Spike isn't sitting around brooding over his soul, he's moved back into his 'angry adolescence' and is ready to kick some ass and take some names -or not- and Angel's on the list by virtue of being a thorn in Spike's side. Spike, however, probably wouldn't actually do much to Angel, b/c that would mean 'angry Buffy' - and Spike doesn't want that, so -- insert scenes from the next episode -- (don't wanna say anything - it would spoil what comes next) --

Anyway - back to Spike - I think he knows that Buffy might still love Angel, he just doesn't want to believe it, or he wants Buffy to see that b/c of Angel's curse, she can't have Angel and should turn to him -- or, that would be his explanation so he could get what he wants (selfish Spike again). Or, he could try the 'one-up' thing - Angel had to be cursed, but Spike made the decision on his own. Who knows what's going through Spike's head at any given moment -- he's such a mystery, but he's an open book too - that struggle makes him so much fun!

 

[Highlander II]

I don't believe so. It seems that she managed to drive the car with Xander still in the driver's seat. I've watched it again and it seems clear that Dawn's head is leaning over from the passenger side and Xander's is still slumped back in the driver's seat.

But if you watch the part where the car stops -just before it turns around -- neither is leaning anywhere - there are two ppl sitting straight up - (which, btw, isn't how ppl sit in a car - they lean, they slouch, even when they're *not* unconscious from chloroform) --- that's why I came up w/ my previous explanation -

 

[obcooke]

I really have watched this one... AGAIN! (Come on, there have no been repeats since the finale - until tonight!)

I think you can see "Dawn's" head more than half-way across the windshield. And as the car turns and you can see the other side, it appears that "Xander's" head is low in the seat.

----

And one more note on the whole Angel vs. Spike thing from Joss:

"...it wasn't like (Spike)'s cured of loving Buffy any more than Angel is."

 

[Highlander II]

This car thing is gonna turn out like the 'Council blowing up' thing -- Greenwalt or Whedon or Fury or someone is gonna have to come online and explain exactly what was supposed to have happened --



It really is buggin' me though --


(yeah - and last night's repeat was "Showtime" - lalalala)

 

[VAMPette]

Just on the Spike - Buffy - Angel thing

I get the point Spike is selfish enough not to care that a part of Buffy will always be in love with Angel but Angel is exactly the same...I mean if buffy and spike had settled down together in the suburbs to make babies (metaphorically speaking) and celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary - would Angel be happy? I don't think so - he'd be all "I'm just happy, that you're happy" inwardly he'd be seething. Maybe he wouldn't do anything about it but he so would be really resenting it.

 

[Highlander II]

Well, except for that whole (spoiler for AtS S5) --

Spoiler

He's in love w/ Cordy thing -- which I still don't get

see - Angel - dunno - he might be upset, at first, that Buffy didn't choose him, but, I also think, that if Spike was what Buffy really wanted, he'd get over it and move on. BUT - I don't think Buffy really wants Spike - and I don't she, at all, deserves him - so, Angel still has a shot ---