7.19: Empty Places

[Tabitha]

Caleb and the First lay some groundwork, but the extended scooby gang rebel against their gung-ho general.
Is this rebellion part of the First's plan, or the unexpected spanner in the works that will have good triumph over evil?

The most notable scene in this episode was without a doubt the extended conference scene, in which the slayerettes and the Scoobies declare their lack of confidence in Buffy's tactics. Buffy's conviction, that "I know I'm right" falls flat, and if you were paying attention when Caleb and the First had their little chat, "She got the message, even if she doesn't know it yet" suggested to me that Caleb has perhaps planted some kind of suggestion in Buffy's mind that is causing her to make bad choices.
it doesn't help that her plan "let's go back to the vineyard, find their power, and take it away from them" is alarmingly vague. I am glad the others stood up to her, and I would be very interested to know whether Spike would have supported her decision or not.
In answer to my own question above, I think that Caleb and the first expected the Scoobies to blindly follow Buffy wherever she wanted to go, and I think (hope) their rebellion is going to help the cause in the long run.
I can't decide whether I got a kick out of Buffy being wrong for once or not. She has been so sanctimonious recently, and it just felt like it was about time someone asked exactly why she had the authority to boss everyone around. So much for the mission not being a democracy.


There were some great comic moments in this episode, Andrew and Anya's presentation, Andrew and Spike's chat on the motorbye about the wonder of flower-onions (or whatever it was), followed by "Run is a four letter word".
The opening scene in which Clem put his foot in it with every single sentence he said.

This is the first episode this season that has made me feel like wanting to count down the minutes until the next episode.

And I'm still puzzling over the phrase that made Caleb so mad:
"It is not for thee. It is for her alone to wield."
What is not for thee? Is the 'her' Buffy? Could it refer to the slayer's power?

 

[Highlander II]

okay - took some notes - just b/c I didn't wanna forget anything -


Buffy *so* has a cold

Clem and the red VW -- oh geez -- can someone PLEASE pick a diff car for people to drive? I hate those damned things.


Question: Why is everyone leaving? They never did before. Is there some portent they got that we missed? Hello - Joss? You there?

And - they cancelled School?? What? Why? backstory please! I feel like I'm standing on the edge and I'm supposed to keep going, but there's nothing left to stand on -- Joss? It's the fans again - what? This connection is terrible, did you say something?

*snort* Anya's 'learning session' then her 'breakup sex' chat -- and Andrew writing it on the board!

8:22PM -- WTF?? UPN is giving away a sodding TV right smack in the middle of BtVS?? WTF are they thinking? Sure, it was when Caleb and Buffy were talkin' at the school, but still - bloody hell! NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 4th TO LAST EP YOU MORONS!!

erm - where was Spike during Anya and Andrew's session on the Ubervamp? If they're all playing 'Hogwarts' in the basement (and one more freaking HP ref on this show and I'm gonna scream!) where is Spike hanging out? and why isn't he complaining about the SITs takin' over his sleeping area? He's a vampire - he's supposed to sleep during the day---

The whole segment from Andrew griping b/c someone ate his Hot Pocket (TM) through when Giles tells Spike to take him w/ -- and the "What?"s -- hehe -- not to mention Faith comes in w/ the last remnants on her fingers --- :evil:

Faith takes the SiTs on a night on the town ---- and in her defense - she didn't really get 'em drunk - she sorta tried to take stuff away -

Caleb - he's still - I dunno - just don't like him - I don't find him interesting -- he's not cryptic enough to make you go 'uh, okay, this'll make sense soon' -- it's more like - 'what the hell are you on about?' and like it'll NEVER make sense ---

Faith and the SiTs take on the whacked-out cops - what gives?

POINTS!!!!!! To Faith for tellin Buffy how it is! hoorah!

Spike and Andrew on the bike (*snort* Andrew's head is the same size as Dawn's! Dawn wore that football helmet back in ep 6.1/6.2) - and Spike still has the bike? um, huh? anyway - moving on b/c the deep-fried flowered onion convo was just brilliant! (this is good coming from me - I can't stand Andrew) -- it was hilarious -- (*runs to hide from all the Spike/Andrew fic that will ultimately barrage the web b/c of this - ugh*) -- and "Tell anyone we had this conversation, I'll bite you." -- hehehe -- love Spike.

Buffy has lost her bleeding mind! (no, that's exactly what I wrote and what I was thinking) -- she wants to go BACK? Is she NUTS? All right, who are you and what the hell have you done w/ Buffy? Insane Spike in the basement was more coherent than this! Buffy's crazy - that plan will NEVER work! gah! Hurry - someone find me season 1!!! quick!! I don't care that Spike's not in it! Someone find me SANE Buffy -

Anya's 'you're just luckier than the rest of us' speech! GO ANYA!

(I seem to be saying 'go everyone' but Buffy - hmmm trend?)

Dawn kicked Buffy out of the house? Hmmmm - necessary, but weird -

1st - Buffy - get the heck over yourself - you're not the Queen - and you aren't even considering any of the other potential options - not to mention, you're not even waiting for Spike to get back from his recon mission that Giles sent him on - you know, the one he's supposed to come back from - what is going on in your head??

2nd - Go whats-her-name -- the one who was asking Buffy what her deal w/ Spike was -- not b/c I don't like Spike - but b/c I kinda wanna know too - and Buffy's got this thing about Spike that is completely inexplicable and makes me wonder if Spike is still under some evil influence somewhere that has yet to be triggered -- if so - COOL! if not - also cool, but what is w/ Buffy?

3rd - why didn't Buffy stick around a litlte while w/ Xander and Willow in the hospital? Doesn't she care about her friends anymore? Sure, Xander *said* he was fine with it - but you KNEW he was heartbroken - he wanted his bestest-Buffy to stay there and make him feel better - he lost an EYE for you B - what gives?

4th - "It is not for thee. It is for her alone to wield." -- ok - what does this mean? Does Spike have any ideas? Will Giles know anything? who is 'her'? Faith? Buffy? Dawn? One of the other SiTs? Willow? I know - we're not supposed to know - that's the 'cliffhanger-ish' part (and the ep would have been better to end THERE then on Buffy leaving )

Overall -- great ep - lots happening - all kinds of things going on - and they shifted some focus to some 'left out' characters from previous episodes and got some things moving -- but I am SO annoyed w/ Buffy now -- more than I was after watching "Sanctuary" (S1 Angel ep) - does research mean nothing?

 

[tabuno]

Great Episode

One of the best episodes and shows Buffy at her weakest. This is great drama and a great turn around that the writers had planned coming for weeks now. There is a great continuity and a sense of doom and frustration and actually mayhem that compells the audience to the screen. This series is getting more grown up and retaining that quaint humor along the way. Buffy's sister as well as the rest of the gang get to show their colors in this more serious episode. Can't wait to see what comes next.

 

[Tabitha]

A response to Highlander II's comment about why everyone was leaving etc. I think it has been established over the last few episodes that people having been leaving town. However I agree that the stampede effect seemed a bit over the top. It might have been more effective to show an almost deserted Sunnydale, as in Cordelia's alternate universe in "The Wish".

 

[JonahBlack]

Heh. I like the bit where Willow does the Jedi Mind trick on the cop.

In (kinda) reverse order:

3rd - why didn't Buffy stick around a litlte while w/ Xander and Willow in the hospital? Doesn't she care about her friends anymore? Sure, Xander *said* he was fine with it - but you KNEW he was heartbroken - he wanted his bestest-Buffy to stay there and make him feel better - he lost an EYE for you B - what gives?

See, I think if buffy just sat around playing cards with Xander when there was a war to be planned/fought, that would be a huge waste. She's been the General, it isn't really her place to comfort the wounded (and she's lousy at it to boot). Willow, Dawn or even Giles would be better, and more easily spared (well, not Giles). I think that Xander was disappointed, but understood.

2nd - Go whats-her-name -- the one who was asking Buffy what her deal w/ Spike was -- not b/c I don't like Spike - but b/c I kinda wanna know too - and Buffy's got this thing about Spike that is completely inexplicable and makes me wonder if Spike is still under some evil influence somewhere that has yet to be triggered -- if so - COOL! if not - also cool, but what is w/ Buffy?

I don't really get this. With the exception of when he was being mind controlled at the beginning of the season, when most of the potentials weren't there, Spike has been a (comparitively) nice guy all season, particularly to the SiTs. I can understand the old guard still not being his biggest fan club, but you'd think knowing Angel would give them a pretty clear understanding of the difference between a person, a vampire, and a re-souled vampire.

1st - Buffy - get the heck over yourself - you're not the Queen - and you aren't even considering any of the other potential options - not to mention, you're not even waiting for Spike to get back from his recon mission that Giles sent him on - you know, the one he's supposed to come back from - what is going on in your head??

To be honest, I saw merit in Buffy's original plan: Go assault the bad guy immediately. Often, good people (particularly heroes) are forced to wait and react to evil. The Scoobies have the luxury of often simply knowing that something/someone is evil without having to wait until they've done horrible things. Bing pro-active and attacking the Big Bad could throw him off his guard.

That being said, the plan was very poorly excecuted. Granted, they had the presence of mind to leave arear guard, but they still just kinda waltzed in with no recon or clear strategy.

I still don't understand exactly how that went so badly, tho. The bringers are chumps, and the SiTs tore throught them. Caleb is super strong, but he's not more impressive than plenty of other seamingly invincible oppontents (the Judge, Glory, Adam), and Buffy punked them all out. And this time she had a small army!

This is what I think they all should do: Go to the basement, or whereever they store their leftover weapons and dig up the following forgotten items: The Rocket launcher that killed the Judge, the dynamite that killed the mayor, the tranq gun they always shoot Oz with, and Olaf the Troll's hammer.

Now, go to the Winery. Blow it up with the Dynamite. If this doesn't kill him, it'll sure get his attention. When he comes out, have Giles or someone equaly capable pump him full of sedative. Once he's woozy, cram a rocket down his throat. If he's still standing, the combination of Buffy, Faith, Spike and Willow should easily take him down using the Hammer, magic and anything else at hand. The SiTs can either watch, or take out any remaining Bringers. Come on, these people took out a God!

 

[Tabitha]

Regarding Buffy's plan - I was with her when she did it in "Dirty Girls". I was under the impression that two Slayers, a very powerful witch, a badass Vampire and a whole bunch of trained potentials would have a pretty good shot at taking just about anyone out. But then they got their behinds kicked and when she suggested trying the same thing again I thought she really had gone cuckoo.

In fact, the whole "take the fight to the bad guy" reminds me of the season three episode, near the end of the season, where, in a similar kind of vein, the gang decided to take the fight to the Mayor and grab some important box (remember the nasty spiders?). That operation really didn't turn out very well for anyone, and left the good guys back to square one.

I think Buffy's problem in these last few episode has been her attitude. She isn't an idiot, she could have talked these people around, but she had to take the hardline method of telling them what was what and expecting everyone to fall in. That attitude in and of itself is not going to inspire much confidence.
This episode, while being a great builder for the finale, and driving me crazy with curiosity, has actually been one of the few times when I have actually thought Buffy had lost her direction altogether. This almost served as a handing-the-reins over episode, and made me think that perhaps one of the reasons Slayers always died young is that they were at their best when they were relatively care free teenagers, not being burdened with the weight of the world on their shoulders.
Maybe this was an illustration of Buffy being past-it?


Ok, that was a whole stream-of-consciousness thing. To be honest I can't for a minute imagine Joss ending the series with such a downbeat image of the life of a Slayer..

 

[JonahBlack]

That reminds me of another point I wanted to make:

I can see the SiT's all being for Buffy just going away, but what was with Dawn, Xander, Willow and Giles supporting Buffy just leaving? How many times has she been right? How many times has she saved them? How much has she sacrificed for them? This reminds me of 'Dean Man's Pary', when everyone persecutes Buffy for running away after Season Two. Both instances demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what it was like to be Buffy, and a seeming refusal to try and empathize with what she's going through.

Granted, in this season, Buffy's been being a complete jerk/hardcase, but the scoobies know that, for the most part, this is atypical of Buffy. They really haven't tried very hard to just talk to Buffy. I feel that, while she is trying to keep everyone a bay emotionally, she hasn't had too much moral support coming from her friends. Heck, Giles even tried to directly undermine her with regards to Spike!

As a side note, if I were friends with Xander, his habit of taking the cheap shot whenever he's upset ("I'm trying to see where your coming form, but it must be somewhat to the left") would wear thin real quick.

 

[Highlander II]

The 'gang' didn't take down a god - if you're referring to Glory - Giles killed Ben - that ended Glory's life. Buffy beat her down with the hammer, but ultimately, it was Giles who stepped in and 'took care of things' -- it's what Giles does - it's WHY Buffy cannot stand alone! Buffy cannot fight Caleb on her own - she NEEDS her friends.

About the potentials and Spike -- Spike's a vampire. To the potentials, vampire = bad. Period, end of story. The SiTs are Buffy S1 version - good and evil is black and white to them. They have yet to be greyed and jaded by the happenings of life and of a slayer. (Of course, they're getting a head start on it, but they're not there yet.) So, to them - Spike = vampire = evil. They don't know any different. They don't understand why Buffy keeps him around - mostly b/c Buffy won't explain it to them. If she would just TELL everyone why she keeps him around - beyond 'he's our strongest fighter' - they might have more faith in her.

Buffy - Xander - the hospital - sure, she had stuff to do, but she didn't even touch him - what give? No squeeze of the hand, no brushing his hair from he face, nothing. She was okay w/ the touching when it was her mom. She was always there, why can't she do that with her best friend? There is something SERIOUSLY wrong with Buffy.

I've heard a theory that 'Buffy came back wrong' (paraphrase on Spike here) - means that Buffy came back w/o a soul -- it's a possibility - and might explain why S6 Buffy was so dark ---

Had a thought on the Dawn kicking Buffy out thing -- remember from CWDP when the image of Joyce told Dawn that "Buffy won't choose you" -- maybe Dawn was being proactive / taking a preemptive strike here and not choosing Buffy before Buffy could 'not choose' her -- Dawn didn't tell anyone what floaty-Joyce told her - so, they wouldn't know that's what she was doing.

Mostly - I just don't understand why Buffy didn't a) wait for Spike to get back from his recon mission with whatever info he might have; and b) EXPLAIN HERSELF! If she'd just explained why she wanted to get the fight going and HOW she was going to do it - if she had had a PLAN! I might be able to understand her, but I'm completely freakin' lost!

Possibility -- Buffy being a brainless dolt could be Caleb's plan - kind of a divide and conquer idea -- separate Buffy from the friends who are her support - make her fight alone - which weakens her.

There's so much 'dissention in the ranks' (to continue w/ the military model - ugh) that nothing Buffy says that involves running off and dying right this minute will go over well. She needs to find some way to 'rally' them and get them all on the same page, all in the same boat and ready to back her w/o hesitation. B/c, right now, if she got them to follow her - they'd all die - her included - b/c NO ONE trusts her or believes in her. They have no reason to, at the moment - they're lost - they don't know what to do - they just know that they're scared and the 'bring the fight to the baddies' idea didn't go over so well the 1st time, so why try it again w/o more information / intelligence??

I'm with the Scoobs and SiTs on this one --

 

[Tabitha]

>>>> Check out all of our rants!

There is a very quiet voice in the back of my head reminding me that this is indeed a tv show, and no doubt all the weirdness we witnessed this ep will be explained soon, without leaving us with the feeling that Buffy was a total loser at the end. Would Joss gleefully take away all trust we have in this character as our (to borrow a much over-used word from Angel) Champion, and then fail to return it?

Good call on the "Buffy won't choose you" line - I had kind of forgotten about that, and I think it is a VERY good point. I think I took Buffy being asked to leave differently from you guys, it felt more like they wanted her to step back, let everyone else decide what to do, hopefully with clearer minds. I didn't see it as her being thrown out altogether.

 

[Dru]

Ok the big problem I had with Dawn kicking Buffy out (other then Buffy saving her annoying little life a billion times) is that it's Buffy's house.

She's the one who had a job. She's the one who worked non stop all season 6 to keep the bills paid and keep food on the table.

Willow, Tara, Dawn, Giles, Now the SiTs are just no good slakers who haven't done anything to earn a cent or even to work around the house. What give them the right to kick her out?

I was expecting her to tell them to get out of her house if they didn't want her in charge. It's just lame that she would just walk off. I mean really. And by the way if Buffy was only working at the school (for what Wood said was like nothing) and now was fired how are they paying to keep the power on? Too feed dozons of teenage girls and a hand full of adults? To not lose the house?

 

[Tabitha]

Willow, Tara, Dawn, Giles, Now the SiTs are just no good slakers who haven't done anything to earn a cent or even to work around the house. What give them the right to kick her out?

If Buffy had thrown all of them out then I would have lost any remaining faith I had in her. Bringing up Faith's past transgressions and jumping to the conclusion that Giles had sent Spike away in order to stage a coup were petty enough, but doing something so cold as petulantly telling everyone to get out when they didn't kowtow to her would have been so far out of character it would ruin the show.

The earning money to live, while a fairly major plot point in season six, has never really felt like a real concern in the show. And even when Buffy did get a McJob, it seemed ridiculous that one person's minimum wage salary could support three adults (Buffy, Willow, Tara) and Dawn, and pay all the Bills in that lovely Craftsman.

Anyhow, the way SunnyDale has been going all to hell for the last three or four episodes, I would be surprised if Bills could be ignored, and a little light looting would put food on the table.

 

[Mysterious Stranger]

Now I don't want to get off on a rant here but...

A couple things bothered me about this episode (other than it being one of the last EVER).

First, as mentioned already, the outright explanation of the mass abandonment of the town and the school closing. Usually when something like this happens we at least get a line or two from someone.

Second, what was with Sarah's voice?! She must have definitely been recovering from a cold (or from screaming at a rock concert). And did anyone else notice that when the Buffy/First showed up her voice was all scratchy too? Probably due to Sarah's cold (or whatever) but still kinda distracting.

Anyway, other than that I loved this episode and I will be weeping openly when the end finally arrives.

 

[Highlander II]

Okay - Buffy and leaving and being kicked out and what not -

Remember Caleb said that the groundwork had been laid and that any minute Buffy would lead all those girls and Scoobies into a fight they would lose --- (this is in the winery after he talks to B in the school) --

Then Buffy goes back and tries to get them all to join up and fight and run off into a pointless battle --

Here's what I'm hoping -- this 'kick Buffy out' plan will be what turns her stubborn head around and makes her see that she's being goaded into 'taking the fight to the bad guy' and she'll lose if she does - that what she needs to do, is what she's been telling the SiTs all along -- 'make the fight your own' -- get Caleb on HER turf - on HER ground - where SHE's comfortable and ready to fight, and THEN kick his butt -

If she doesn't do that - then it's very possible that they will all die - and nothing can stop it.

And yeah - this is just a tv show - but how many other shows that you watch provoke this kind of ranting and discussion?

So many shows out there focus so much on who's dating / sleeping with / divorcing who that they're almost soap operas (there are the exceptions like the ocassional JAG episode and the various incarnations of L&O) - and there's nothing TO discuss - it's one of the things I love about BtVS and AtS -- there's so much to provoke discussion - even if we go back to season 1 and start again - we can STILL find something to discuss that may or may not have been answered even by Season 7 --

So, yeah - I probably talk and rant about stuff - but if there was nothing to rant about - the show would suck --

 

[little smaug]

I can't believe it - the stupid video recorded the wrong channel!!! (nothing to do with whoever programmed the video of course)

I've picked up bits and pieces of what happened, but could someone give me a synopsis? Or the address of a website where they have detailed synopses?

 

[obcooke]

Sorry you had to wait so long for an answer, LS. Sadly, I've had to work this weekend.

Let me point you to the latest site I use for transcripts since Psyche's site started falling behind.

BtVS Episode Guides and Transcripts done by "Buffy vs Angel Forum"

For going directly to the episode you are looking for:

Empty Places

Hope you enjoy.

There might be a method of getting a copy of the episode, but ASciFi.com does not condone copyright violations, so no one is allowed to post details in public. If you contact me through email or PM I can discuss it further.

If you contact me by email, please put an identifier like "little smaug" or "ASciFi.com" in the subject line. For security reasons I do not open emails from people that I do not recognize.

 

[little smaug]

Thats ok, OB, i just wanted to know what happened so i'm not all confused next week. But thanks for the website!

 

[VAMPette]

Go An-ya, Go Fai-th, bye Buffy!

Delighted that someone has wiped the sanctimonious smirk off Buffy's face at last - no that's maybe a bit harsh, but she has been so smug and superior all this season, she's as good as admitted (to Holden) that she thinks she's better than everyone else, she's been taking risks and making bad decisions and she's actually being really nasty to everyone as well - look at how she was with Dawn this ep, she didn't even speak to her even tho Dawn was obviously upset about Xander! And okay she came up with a stupid plan - that's forgiveable, but she was so stubborn, she didn't even listen to anyone else's objections. Well done Anya for speaking her mind (she really doesn't like Buffy, have you noticed that?) - Buffy isn't better than any of them just cos she's a slayer, in fact Willow's more powerful than her, she kicked her ass last season.

Having said that, I am so with Dru on this one - they didn't have to kick her out of her own house - she could've just not been a part of their plans and strategy. And if I'd been Buffy, I wouldn't have gone. Where's she going to sleep now, considering the fact that Joss and co appear to have got rid of all other sets - please don't let her go to the school basement, we had enough of that with Spike.

Speaking of Spike, it'll be interesting to see which way he goes on this. Probably with Buffy, unfortunately. But it would be interesting if he doesn't, will leave Buffy more alone, and therefore more vulnerable to Caleb. I've a feeling that he may corrupt Buffy in some way, and pit her against everyone else.

It was a bit wierd that Spike was conveniently out of the way when the potentials overthrew Buffy - can't see how Giles could've known it was going to happen - but still...And Buffy's paranoia over Spike is definitely wearing a bit thin....why after all she's been through with Giles, Xander, Willow, Dawn and Anya, does she think Spike is 'the only one watching her back'? she's definitely a bit obsessed with him - and yet at the beginning of the series, couldn't give two ****s about him. Strange.

What else?

Quote "I've heard a theory that 'Buffy came back wrong' (paraphrase on Spike here) - means that Buffy came back w/o a soul -- it's a possibility - and might explain why S6 Buffy was so dark --- "

Can't see it - what about Tara checking her out and saying she was fine?

With regard to Xander - I think the reason Buffy didn't sit around to play cards with him, was basically she couldn't bear to look at him and remind herself of what she had done to him. Understandable but still selfish. Probably one of the reasons that she wanted to rush back in there was to prove to herself that she hadn't got it that wrong before. Instead she just ended up making it worse for herself.

Can't wait to next week:rolly2: