Okay - trying this again - stupid compy -
(fortunately, I save the post that didn't get sent - learned from losing one a while back - grr argh)
And it got done anyway --
No - I wasn't actually asking if anyone wanted to have the discussion - however, it has prompted some things -
Tabuno has a point - and it goes back to the S1 BtVS mentality of 'black and white' - good and evil - and now Buffy and her gang are starting to really realize it's not always that simple - Angel was the starting point - a vampire with a soul, then there was Oz - he's human most of the month and wolfie 3 nights of the month; Anya's an ex-demon (well, she was, I'm guessing she is now, she said so); Willow's a witch - they used to burn witches -
So, they don't burn witches now, does this mean that vampires should be given the benefit of the doubt? No. (can't have Buffy turning into Anita Blake here) -- However, the situation is slightly different with Spike. Yes, they put the chip in his head - a behavior modification chip to zap his head with pain when he tried to hurt living things (obviously plants don't count, and I'm not sure about animals, b/c I don't recall seeing him try to eat rats or anything - until "Beneath You" - and then, he never caught any); okay - so this 'restraint' system prevented him from harming people and he had to find other ways of occupying his time. He learned he could hurt demons, so he helps Buffy - he didn't have to. He could have just beat up demons as he felt like it, but he chose to help (and I know that's more a writing thing than anything else - it's how they wanted the plot to go, but work with me here). Then something happened and he 'fell for' Buffy (not really sure how to describe it, b/c they mostly smacked us w/ it in "Crush") -- anyway - Spike's in love with the Slayer - and she's still of the mind that vampires can't feel - and she holds this belief until the end of S6. It's not until after she finds out that Spike went to get the soul on his own that she considers something else.
So - goes back to a question that Buffy's probably asked herself but never admitted to - can vampires feel? do they have emotions? They have free will - generally, they are demons and they hunt and kill - that's their instinct, but a vampire w/ a human soul - not really a 'whole' vampire anymore. Do we change the rules for them? Buffy always insisted that the rules were different for Angel - "Angel was good." "Angel had/has a soul." -- when Angel lost his soul, she was ready to kill him if she had to - like she was willing to take out Anya if it was necessary; I'm sure she'd do the same to Spike, so why not let the Initiative remove the chip? Or are the rules different for Spike than they were for Angel? If nothing else, Spike should be given MORE leeway than Angel b/c Spike got his soul on his OWN. He wasn't cursed w/ his soul like Angel - I see some difference there.
This is one of those arguments / discussions that could go on forever - and it's why this show is so much fun - b/c it provokes these types of things ---
So - why couldn't human rights (or at least the principles of human rights) be applied to vampires - or, at least vampires w/ souls (like there are more than 2)? Buffy wanted them applied to Oz - he was a werewolf. Remember her speech to Riley? They locked Oz in a cage when he was demony - how is that different from Spike's chip? It's behavior modification. Sure, in Oz's case, he was amenable to the locking, but similar in principle. If they'd let Oz run loose, he would have killed ppl; if Spike didn't have the chip he would kill ppl. So, the question is, now that Spike has a soul - will he kill people of his own free will?