7.12: Potential

[obcooke]

Is Dawn the new potential or...?

Buffy takes the other Slayers-in-Training to school.

 

[Highlander II]

You know - they played this just right - Dawn knew (well, had doubts anyway), but no one else did - and the Scoobies were all excited and wanting to tell Buffy and such -- Dawn told them not to --- good choice on Dawn's part --

I really liked the opening sequence -- the part AFTER the 2 1/2 minutes of 'recap for the galactically stupid' -- it was nicely done (okay - aside from the funky shippiness - tho that's canon, so it doesn't bother me so much) --

But - (yeah, there's one of those) - why is Buffy so concerned about Spike getting hurt? Um - hello - vampire - heals almost as fast as the slayer - he'll be okay -- which he told her anyway --

again - I can overlook that b/c the rest of the sequence was good -

Ok - one big honkin' question here tho - why does Buffy now, all of a sudden, start recapping Spike's little speech from "Fool For Love"?? the whole 'Death is your art, you make it with your hands every day...' bit -- she was adamant that that wasn't the case way back in S5 - now she's all for it? What happened?? Did she finally realize that Spike tells more truth than everyone ever hears / believes??

I'm almost expecting Buffy to start out w/ 'Lesson the first...' and launch into a paraphrased version of Spike's whole bit ---

But anyway - back to the episode -- or, the rest of it -

Love:

*Spike in vamp face!
*Scaredy-slayers-in-training fighting Spike
*Xander's little speech (well, big speech) to Dawn at the end -- this is about the BEST Xander scene ever ---
*the odiforous locating spell to find the other potential
*All of Spike's dialogue (though there wasn't much, he just has great delivery)


Like:

*Klem! He's back! Too funny! (is he still living in Spike's old crypt??) And the face!! LOL!!! he scared the SITs! :evil:
*The whole scene in the demon bar - 'Hey, let's get a drink!' - Buffy: (paraphrase, b/c I don't remember what she said) "Yeah, if you want demon drink A or demon drink B..." and Spike's comment about just grabbing a tasty townie instead of buying at the bar -- hehe ---
*Dawn handing over the 'power' when she was sure it wasn't hers
*Spike and Buffy locking the SITs in a crypt with a vamp - (btw, how many more times are they gonna redecorate Spike's old crypt set?)



Odd:

*All the things that popped up that we, the fans, have been speculating on/talking about for the last couple years -- Dawn as a potential (even tho she wasn't - there was a moment when, admit it, you thought she might be), Xander not having a 'power' - there were others, but my train of thought got lost w/ an IM window popping up...



Dislikes:

*the blatant attempt to make the SITs 'see' that Buffy cares about Spike - um - not-so-subtle much? this should have been very very subtle - would have been more interesting - now all the SITs are totally believing that Buffy's dated demons
*How Dawn somehow lit that gas in the science room w/o a match or source of flame that I could see (unless my chemistry is WAY off)


All in all? Good episode! 1 - 10 scale? 9.9 (hey, I don't give anything a 10 unless it's absolutely outstanding)

But - yeah - good overall use of characters, story arc and plot --

and excellent on the lack of the First for a change - geeeeeez --- even evil things need a break -

 

[tabuno]

Twists At The Save This Episode Again

Just when I think, oh hum...a plain, regular episode, Joss Whedon comes up with a surprise twist or two towards the end and then Whedon leaves us with a brilliant Dawn and Xander dialogue at the end of the episode that just brings to light just how deep and substantive this series really is.

 

[Highlander II]

Oh - one more thing -- someone pointed out in a chat I was in last night -- there's a Potential missing --

These were there:

Vi, Molly, Rona and Kennedy -- well, and later Amanda


These weren't:

Chloe and Eve

Eve's dead, but what about Chloe? Did the writers forget about her? Or is she missing? Or an agent of the First? Or what?

The 1st one, I can buy. The others - umm - how stupid would Buffy, Xander, Willow, Dawn, Andrew and Spike have to be to NOT notice a missing girl?

To the best of my knowledge - Chloe didn't die in the 'kill the ubervamp' ep - so, what happened? Esp as there was no explanation to her absence --

Ok - I suppose she could have gone w/ Giles to pick up the Potential in Shanghai (or wherever it was), but that doesn't make sense either - b/c what would she be able to do? She's supposed to be training w/ Buffy --

Unless the first did some 'memory-altering' thing on everyone so they wouldn't notice that one of the girls was missing --

Mostly - now I'm just confused...

 

[JonahBlack]

Faith

I thought the episode was pretty good, particularly in retrospect since I know that Dawn isn't the other potential.

One thing that did bug me, though, was that Buffy made a comment about one of them being the slayer if she (Buffy) died. It's my understanding that after Buffy 'died' in Season One, that Kendra became 'the Slayer' in terms of lineage, and then passed that to Faith. Buffy has the power and does the job, but technically isn't 'the Slayer', in that her death won't activate another. If it would, then There'd be another full Slayer running around since season 6.

I suppose it's possible that Buffy doesn't want to confuse them with the Faith story...

 

[JonahBlack]

Aliens

You know, as long as I'm posting, I have a question. I'm a newbie here: what's the deal with the 'Aliens'? As in, 'My aliens are such and thus' in peoples sigs, and the little alien heads in peoples user info? How does one get them? Just curious.

 

[Highlander II]

Re: Aliens

Originally posted by JonahBlack
You know, as long as I'm posting, I have a question. I'm a newbie here: what's the deal with the 'Aliens'? As in, 'My aliens are such and thus' in peoples sigs, and the little alien heads in peoples user info? How does one get them? Just curious.

Okay - 1st - the OT part -- the aliens indicate 'posting markers' - there's a thread in the General Discussions -> Post Clubs and Alien Threads section --> http://www.ascifi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9181 -- that indicates the various 'steps' for acquiring a new alien. Basically -the more you post, the more little aliens you acquire. (just a note, be sure not to spam the board to get more aliens - that's no fun )

The names - it's just in fun - lots of members name their aliens - there's a thread for this too -->
http://www.ascifi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2933


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


And - the on-topic part - back to Buffy -

I was a bit thrown by Buffy's comment about her death bringing a new Slayer too - b/c I thought the same thing - Faith is the Slayer, and Buffy is a Slayer - still around b/c of a 'fluke' in the system ---


In a way - yeah, I'm glad Dawn isn't a potential - just seemed a bit obvious - though the fact that she was made from Buffy would make that idea plausible - (Unless Dawn is another 'slayer the watcher's council wouldn't have known about b/c she was a 'fluke' too - like Buffy - but anyway) - and Willow mentioned that (or was that Anya?) -

I like Dawn (and I still don't understand why people hate her so much) but it almost would have been 'too easy' for her to have been a potential -

However, b/c she's not - she's 'ficus plant' again - she keeps getting shoved into the corner and ignored and she's 'just Buffy's little sister' again - which I really wish they'd get away from - it's boring and annoying ---

 

[Dru]

I liked this ep except for well the dumb Spuffy junk, Buffy saying if she dies one of them will be called, missing SIT, Amanda suddenly being able to fight just cause Dawn said "Your Chosen it's your job" and handed her a stick, and the stupidness of locking four girls in a crypt with a vampire.

I felt sorry for Dawn. She was pretty much being ignored.

Oh and one thing that bugs me thats always bugged me. Why isn't Dawn being trained? Even if she isn't a SIT she live on a Hellmouth so wouldn't it make sense for her to know how to fight?

And also on some of the boards I'm on people are thinking that Dawn really is a SIT. And it makes sense. I mean Willows spell didn't just go though her it made her glow. If she wasn't a SIT should it have compleatly ignored her and just passed though her to Amanda?

 

[Highlander II]

Well, maybe Dawn is -- it's always a possibility --- hey - this is Joss' world -


About Amanda 'getting power' - it wasn't b/c Dawn handed her a stick and said 'you have the power' -- it was b/c all the SITs were 'getting the power' - they were put into a situation where they needed to know what to do - and instinct was all they had - so 'bang' instinct kicks in and they do what they have to. Amanda wouldn't have survived the fight if she'd had to hit all the Harbingers and the vamp by herself - she made it b/c Buffy showed -

Locking the 4 SITs in the crypt w/ the vamp -- same as Amanda at the school - but they had an advantage - they knew they were SITs and that they were supposed to fight this vamp -- AND there were 4 of them.

I've read this being compared to "Helpless" - and ppl wondering why this wasn't considered 'barbaric' - but "Helpless" was --

my thoughts: These girls didn't have any power 'taken away' from them like Buffy did; Buffy had her power taken w/o her knowledge or consent - if Buffy had KNOWN she was being stripped of her power, the fans might not have 'hated' it so much (that and if it hadn't all been the idea of Quentin Travers) -- the SITs knew they weren't the Slayer, but Buffy had given them, I think, enough confidence that they could deal w/ the vamp w/ minimal problems - not to mention, I think Buffy and Spike were outside the crypt the whole time - it wasn't like they ran off -- (b/c I'm guessing they waited for the 4 SITs to kill the vamp, then ran back to B's house, heard from Wil that there was a new Potential and that Dawn was missing - found Xander - or something - at the school -- cut to scene where B and Spike kick Harbinger butt --

I don't understand why Dawn isn't being trained either -- ummm - didn't B say she wanted to show Dawn the world? And she was teaching her in "Lessons" -- what happened? the SITs are more important? Dawn could go along and learn stuff the same as the SITs, though she may or may not be a potential -- why not learn? Willow and Xander and Anya all fight ---

Sometimes this show is really irksome -----

but that's the fun part!!

 

[obcooke]

[Highlander II: Ok - one big honkin' question here tho - why does Buffy now, all of a sudden, start recapping Spike's little speech from "Fool For Love"??... Did she finally realize that Spike tells more truth than everyone ever hears / believes??]

I not that convinced about the honesty of the old Spike. In any event, "Fool For Love" was before she had died; maybe she has another perspective now.

---

[Highlander II: I'm almost expecting Buffy to start out w/ 'Lesson the first...' and launch into a paraphrased version of Spike's whole bit --- ]

Well, if you'll remember, she repeated his line "Thus endth' the lesson", after she killed the Ubervamp.

--

[Highlander II: *Klem!... And the face!! LOL!!! he scared the SITs!]

Yeah, but the laugh was a lot shorter since the gag was an obvious rip-off of (or should I say tribute to) "Beetlejuice". Maybe it was meant to be another of their cultural references.

I got a much bigger laugh out of: "You think she dated him, too?"

--

[Highlander II: *The whole scene in the demon bar - 'Hey, let's get a drink!' - Buffy: (paraphrase, b/c I don't remember what she said) "Yeah, if you want demon drink A or demon drink B..."]

Drink A = Yak urine shots

Drink B = Pig blood spritzers

--

[Highlander II: (btw, how many more times are they gonna redecorate Spike's old crypt set?)]

I seem to remember that at the end of Season Six Spike's crypt set was destroyed along with The Magic Box. Besides, his crypt was a lot bigger inside. You know how it is, after a while, they all start to look alike.

=====================================

[JonahBlack: One thing that did bug me, though, was that Buffy made a comment about one of them being the slayer if she (Buffy) died. It's my understanding that after Buffy 'died' in Season One, that Kendra became 'the Slayer' in terms of lineage, and then passed that to Faith.]

Absolutely right, JB. A funny thing is that even Dawn says the same thing about only becoming The Slayer if Buffy dies, you would think that she would be able to keep things straight.

HEY! What if Faith dies and Dawn becomes the next Slayer and then she and Buffy form a sister team and then........ nyah.

=====================================

[Dru: ...Amanda suddenly being able to fight just cause Dawn said "Your Chosen it's your job" and handed her a stick and the stupidness of locking four girls in a crypt with a vampire.]

Ah, but if you remember from the beginning of the episode:

"You're right... you don't have Slayer-strength, but that doesn't mean that you're not strong. You have inherent abilities that others do not have."

"Not like you do."

"No, not yet. But it's there. You have the potential. You have strength... speed... instinct. You just have to learn to trust yourself."

Both instances (Dawn giving Amanda "the speech" and forcing the four to face their fear) were about getting them to trust their ability. To trust in themselves and their ability to overcome their fears - a favorite Joss theme, especially where young women are concerned.

Remember how relaxed and self-assured they were at the end - like students that have aced their finals. I look forward to a more aggressive pack of SITs in future episodes, at least until The First returns.

--

[Dru: Why isn't Dawn being trained? Even if she isn't a SIT she live on a Hellmouth so wouldn't it make sense for her to know how to fight?]

Well, that's a good point, but perhaps the best analogy is not letting an unprepared student hold back the rest of the class. Dawn is around and listening most of the time. In the US we call this "auditing" the course - you sit in on the class, but don't take the tests or get graded.

The SITs are the graduate students and are taking the advanced courses that Dawn is not qualified for. That leaves Buffy very little time to tutor Dawn.

That may be a mistake and perhaps it’s one of the things that will convince Dawn that Buffy is not "choosing her" to paraphrase her mother's apparition.

 

[Highlander II]

[Highlander II: Ok - one big honkin' question here tho - why does Buffy now, all of a sudden, start recapping Spike's little speech from "Fool For Love"??... Did she finally realize that Spike tells more truth than everyone ever hears / believes??]

I not that convinced about the honesty of the old Spike. In any event, "Fool For Love" was before she had died; maybe she has another perspective now.

Well, I was actually talking about things he said like 'Death is your art. You make it with your hands, everyday.' – how 'not honest' could that be? Esp since Buffy just repeated this to the SITs – only in a slightly less terrifying way.

---

[Highlander II: I'm almost expecting Buffy to start out w/ 'Lesson the first...' and launch into a paraphrased version of Spike's whole bit --- ]

Well, if you'll remember, she repeated his line "Thus endth' the lesson", after she killed the Ubervamp.

Right – she said 'Here endeth the lesson.' In the last ep – kinda why I’m nearly expecting her to launch into 'Lesson the first…' and keep going – not quite w/ Spike's entire speech, b/c Buffy's not teachin' the SITs to kill Slayers (that wouldn't make much sense) – but anyway ….

--

Yeah, but the laugh was a lot shorter since the gag was an obvious rip-off of (or should I say tribute to) "Beetlejuice". Maybe it was meant to be another of their cultural references.

I got a much bigger laugh out of: "You think she dated him, too?"

Well, yeah, the dating line was funnier, but I was more laughing at the fact that Klem scared the girls, not that his face was a rip-off / tribute -

--

I seem to remember that at the end of Season Six Spike's crypt set was destroyed along with The Magic Box. Besides, his crypt was a lot bigger inside. You know how it is, after a while, they all start to look alike.

Yeah – the might have torn it down, but maybe not completely – if they still need 'crypt sets' – why shred that one? It's still functional, and the bit that was Spike's crypt – was a lot of other things BEFORE it was Spike's crypt – (might have been other things WHEN it was Spike's crypt) –

 

[JonahBlack]

[Dru: Why isn't Dawn being trained? Even if she isn't a SIT she live on a Hellmouth so wouldn't it make sense for her to know how to fight?]

[Obcooke: Well, that's a good point, but perhaps the best analogy is not letting an unprepared student hold back the rest of the class. ]


I've always felt that Giles and Buffy should have been training the Scooby Club pretty much from day one. They're constantly in serious danger, and for the most part, it looks like they've gained very little in the way of fighting skill. I figure Xander and Willow should be at least as competent as Wes and Cordy is on Angel, and possiby as good as Gunn. They would be, if they got some real training. I don't even mean Slayer level training; just some basic martial arts.

I suppose, however, that this would hurt the tone of the show. Much in the same way as if they all started carrying 12-gauge shotguns (another great anti-vampire tactic).

PS: Thanks for the info, Highlander. Only 6 more posts until my first alien

 

[gloom_cookie]

Originally posted by Highlander II
Oh - one more thing -- someone pointed out in a chat I was in last night -- there's a Potential missing --

These were there:

Vi, Molly, Rona and Kennedy -- well, and later Amanda


These weren't:

Chloe and Eve

Eve's dead, but what about Chloe? Did the writers forget about her? Or is she missing? Or an agent of the First? Or what?

The 1st one, I can buy. The others - umm - how stupid would Buffy, Xander, Willow, Dawn, Andrew and Spike have to be to NOT notice a missing girl?

To the best of my knowledge - Chloe didn't die in the 'kill the ubervamp' ep - so, what happened? Esp as there was no explanation to her absence --

Ok - I suppose she could have gone w/ Giles to pick up the Potential in Shanghai (or wherever it was), but that doesn't make sense either - b/c what would she be able to do? She's supposed to be training w/ Buffy --

Unless the first did some 'memory-altering' thing on everyone so they wouldn't notice that one of the girls was missing --

Mostly - now I'm just confused...

I read on another board it's due to scheduling conflicts with the actress who plays Chloe - Lalaine, is it? Still wondering how they're going to explain her absense though.

 

[Highlander II]

Well, that's fine - I know actors have other things they do - but there SHOULD have been something in the script / story that explained her absence - they could have said they sent her w/ Giles to pick up the othe girl - then when Giles shows up w/ the new girl, the new girl could be all excited, or something - and she and Chloe could talk about how they had to fight this vamp and that they just somehow knew what to do --- (total speculation here - it's an idea - and would make some sense) --

Mostly - I'm hoping that ME doesn't leave it as a big honkin' plot hole....

 

[Diamond9697]

I liked this episode. I agree that Dawn should be trained because she is going to get into trouble. She's a slayer's sister and that puts her in danger right from the get-go.

Now I am not a huge Xander fan. He's never been one of my favorite characters and I usually find him annoying more than anything else. However I think that the talk he had with Dawn at the end of this episode is one of my favorite Xander moments that I can recall. I liked it a lot.

So if Buffy is just a slayer and therefore no one comes to replace her once she dies. Then shouldn't someone somewhere be looking for Faith? Her being the actual Slayer now? I mean what the heck is that girl doing anyway? It's like she dropped off the face of the earth after her little run in with Angel in LA. Do they just figure that if she dies then one will show up out of these girls and all will be well again? I hate that kind of stuff.

 

[Highlander II]

Unless she's escaped - Faith's still in jail in LA --

But Angel hasn't been to see her (that we know of) since the day or so after he sang "Mandy" at Lorne's club -

So - hmmmmm -- guess anything's possible -

What I don't like is the fact that they keep 'forgetting' about her - not so much that they never talk about her - why would they, but that everytime they mention something about 'The Slayer' - they speak as though Faith doesn't exist and has no slayer powers - when we all know she does -

It's like Jesse - you remember him - Xander's friend from way back in ep 1 - no one's ever mentioned him again, not even Xander - very odd -

What is it? Once you die - like actually 'forever' die, and you're not Buffy's mom or Tara, you never get mentioned again?

It's just very strange ---

 

[Dru]

I've always felt that Giles and Buffy should have been training the Scooby Club pretty much from day one. They're constantly in serious danger, and for the most part, it looks like they've gained very little in the way of fighting skill. I figure Xander and Willow should be at least as competent as Wes and Cordy is on Angel, and possibly as good as Gunn. They would be, if they got some real training. I don't even mean Slayer level training; just some basic martial arts.

Thats one if the things that's always drove me crazy. The moment that Giles and Buffy saw that Willow and Xander weren't going to forget that vampires are real, that they weren't going to go away and stop patrolling with buffy one of both of them should have started training them. They don't need to be experts but come on! They live on a Hellmouth and they go out patrolling with Buffy all the time just look at how many episoad have Xander getting knocked on his butt while Buffy fights and you see that they need training. I mean if Xander had been trained for all these years he may not feel so left out and helpless around his strong powerful friends.

It's like Jesse - you remember him - Xander's friend from way back in ep 1 - no one's ever mentioned him again, not even Xander - very odd -

Ahh! I hate that! I mean how hard would it have been for one tiny "God I miss Jesse. Remember when we used to do that[insert thing here]" or something. Like Reptile Boy would have been the perfect time. There sitting around watching movies hanging out just like Willow, Xander, and Jesse must have done all the time for 16 years.

 

[tabuno]

Dawn and Xander

The great thing about "Buffy" series is that sometimes it reflects real life. While I share similar comments about Dawn being left out in the series from stuff, it's just typical of ordinary life - the younger sister, always coming in second. Buffy wants to protect her as well as believing that perhaps she doesn't have the requisite abilities. But that's how it is in real life and that's why we can identify and sympathize with these characters. I really liked the Xander and Dawn dialogue at the end of this episode, the more grown-up teenage talk, real stuff again that if fact may even be above average for the rest of the Buffy team - wow I look forward more the rest of the story.

 

[Highlander II]

See, I get the 'leaving out the younger sister' - but I *don't* get the 'leaving out' the character --

2 totally different scenarios -

'leaving out the younger sister' is a story - it's how Dawn feels - she gets left out b/c she's younger and such - fine - SHOW that - from Dawn's POV - why? B/c Buffy wouldn't have the first clue how Dawn feels, nor would anyone EXCEPT Xander - and then only from a certain level - b/c *he's* been in on the action before -

'leaving out the character' is different - this is totally forgetting that Dawn even exists in the Buffy-world and her not getting screen time for whatever reason - she's left out of the story all-together - and *this* is what I have a gripe about -

Not that the Scoobies forget to include Dawn in the Scooby stuff, but that the WRITERS forget to include Dawn in the stories they show us each week. It happens all the time. And the biggest problem is, we're left with an underdeveloped character while they focus all their energy developing Buffy - whom we already know most everything about anyway.

Seriously - try to write a Buffy fic that tries to reveal something NEW about her - hard to do isn't it? You know why? B/c the writers have developed her to death (bad pun) - there really isn't all that much left to tell about her - unless you go back and re-write the 1st 4 years w/ Dawn included - which are all 'fake' memories anyway --

But with Dawn - you could concoct a whole new world, almost - we know almost nothing about the poor girl - sure, all her existence prior to S5 is 'fake' - but she still has memories and things she can go through --

I just think the writers skip this part b/c they're so worried about making Buffy the hero --

 

[tabuno]

Buffy is the Series

I don't see that Dawn gets any more or less screen time than any other of the characters except for Buffy, which the entire series is primarily about anyway, just as with Ally McBeal. I've been satisfied with Dawn's role and there have been a number of episodes that Dawn has received the greater amount of attention. Her character has been developed over the past seasons and I see her growing up, going through the typical identity crisis. Each character on Buffy has had an opportunity to go through changes, getting special attention and evolving.