A bit... annoyed

[GL-Sama]

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I really have to say, I'm very disappointed with the majority of the SG fandom I've found. I for one, LOVE Daniel Jackson, he is, and always will be, my favorite character. It hurt when I heard they were taking him out of the show, and yes, I was not happy about the "replacement" concept.

I am a member of Clan Denial in the Highlander fandom, and know exactly how it feels to be told you're wrong and you're stupid to mourn a character.

Why do I say all this? Because for the most part, almost every person I've come across is so damned mad that THE POWERS THAT BE wrote Daniel out, their only resort is to bash Jonas and ridicule the sixth season.

Again, stating that I do love the good doctor just as much as everyone else (all my friends can attest to this fact), but I will be very honest. I like Jonas.

No, he's NOT Daniel. He's not ultra honest, he's not the world's greatest linguist, and he really can't hold a candle to him regarding his almost saint status.

Jonas rather, is different. He's not overtly brave, he hasn't been tossed into the line of action, and hasn't been involved with the Stargate project since the beginning.

Yes, he was acted a tad bit cowardly when Daniel leaped through the window. Yeah, he didn't just jump up and do it himself. Some people don't have a fine tuned sense of self sacrifice. In fact MOST people don't. To be honest, I don't think anyone's born with it, it's a sense of morals that develops over your lifetime, and a heck of a lot of bravery, that makes you do something like that (did anyone else notice in Meridian that it was mentioned that not many people can do what Daniel did? Sacrifice themselves to save a planet? Nooo...) Has anyone watched Magnificent Seven here? Ezra Standish was terribly cowardly in the first episode, to the point where his friends were captured because of it, but guess what? Over time, he redeemed himself. But you know what, I guess Jonas is just a coward. No room for improvement huh?

And he did steal the Naquadria (forgive my spelling, I'm not an expert on the names of items in the series) from his people, giving it to the SGC. Now from what I've noticed, most like to use this as the top "JONAS IS EVILLLL!" reason. Personally, but I guess this entire post is my opinion, it was for the greater good. Of his planet, and for Earth. But you know what? He stole, he's bad, so let's hang him now, huh?

To be honest, I know I can't make any converts. I guess I'm really just ranting, taking out my frustration, because everyone hates a character I like, and for the most part of what I can see, it's mostly so they don't have to hate the producers of the show. *sigh* All right, I'm ready for my millions of flames. Go ahead now.

--GL

 

[pamie]

I could not agree with you more...

I love Daniel Jackson and was sad when he left and was sad when I heard he was leaving...

But from what I have seen of Jonas I like him too..in fact in a way I was kinda happy he was coming into it as it was someone fresh and new (not to say I would rather him then Danny)

So yep agree totally and I can't wait for the start of season six over in the uk to see more of what Jonas is all about and how he fits in!

 

[sarahlou]

utterly agree, seeing as you were brave enough to rant, ill join ya

I know everyone is upset that daniel has left BUT the scriptwriters didnt purposely write daniel out. Micheal Shanks wasnt happy working on Stargate anymore and wanted to move on, although they were not supposed to be doing another series and instead do a movie Shanks already wanted to move on whatever they decided to do. When it was finalised to go forward with the sixth series Shanks wanted out and so the scripts had to be adjusted and Daniel moved on, leaving a part that needed to be filled which is where Jonas came in.

Jonas stole the naquadria so the sgc could come up with defence systems rather than weapons, which he then could go back to his planet with. As for him being evil etc, what is teal'c, wasnt he a first prime to a powerful system lord?? didnt he murder hundreds of people?? and yet he is now one of the most loved, respected members of the SGC.

As for slating the whole last series, that effects the entire show!! To slate the show just because one charecter out of a main 6 (jack, sam, tealc, the doc, the general, daniel) we love, never mind charecters that keep pooping up means you only watch it for that charecter and not for what the show is about, and if you just watched it for Daniel you must have gotten bored often.


sara

 

[skydiver]

i know not everyone will like all of the characters all of the time but...i too get frustrated with the automatic 'jonas (and some of the names folks call him are down right rude IMHO) is evil' philosophy.

He's a flawed character. I like that. Perfect is boring. Now, maybe in 18 episodes i'll be calling him a mary sue and saying that his smile is annoying...but i'm gonna watch and then make up my mind. for me personally, i like him. He brings a freshiness and sense of optimism that i feel the show was lacking. I think a lot of people were getting into a rut, and the departure of Daniel and introduction of Jonas has breathed some new life into it.
Not everyone will feel the same way, and that's certainly their right.

 

[HeyLynny]

I really like Jonas too! His character is very funny and cute in an innocent sort of way. I'm missing Daniel, but it helps that I like Jonas, because if I didn't like him then the show would not be the same to me. And right now, I still feel the same way about the shwo as I've always felt.

 

[Gemsong]

I'm all for giving Jonas a chance. He's not a replacement. But he should be given a fair shot at making his own place on the team.

He's not Daniel. He's not supposed to be. Heck, his entire background is completely different. That would apply to anyone.

 

[Marty's Mine]

i agree with ya gemsong.... and plus we have 2 remember that michael wanted 2 leave the show, and made his final decision 2 leave for sure because no1 was on their knees begging him to stay!

i loved daniels character and hes not lost forever but jonas has all the right to hav his moment with sg1! and we have to give him a chance! as gemsong said he isnt a replacement 4 daniel and he is different! the only thing that keeps him slightly simmilar is his pasion 4 archeology!

give jonas a change! he seems like a great guy....... and corin is too

 

[Jobeth]

Shanks left because his character had been reduced to 3 lines per episode. No wonder he was unhappy.

As for Jonas, maybe if Corky didn't deliver each line as if he were on a sitcom (say line, grin at camera for several seconds), he wouldn't be so obnoxious.

 

[skydiver]

this is not the time or place for the infamous 'why did ms leave' debate.

in truth, noone save MS, BW and the fly that was on the wall knwos for sure what happened and let's leave it at that.

This part of the forum is to discuss jonas

 

[Gemsong]

Well I'm starting to see some subtle improvement in Jonas. (Or I could be hallucinating. It's been known to happen.)

Not quite as much the eager puppy he was in the first couple of episodes.

And he does have a passion for things.

 

[webmouse]

Originally posted by Jobeth
Shanks left because his character had been reduced to 3 lines per episode. No wonder he was unhappy.

As for Jonas, maybe if Corky didn't deliver each line as if he were on a sitcom (say line, grin at camera for several seconds), he wouldn't be so obnoxious.

The trouble for actor Corin Nemec is that the writers haven't given him much to work with. I WANT to like Jonas, but I haven't been given a reason to. There hasn't been a scene where I was particularly concerned for his safety or felt any emotional attachment to him. He hasn't been left vulnerable and abandoned, as have all the other team members at some time or another. Instead he has been left reading a book and commenting on the obvious (boring) or saving the day (Wesley Crusher Syndrome) -- and neither extreme is endearing. At present JQ is following in DJ's path -- having only a few lines and a couple of scenes in long-shot.

I am willing to accept the cast change if the writers will give me some reason to. They can make the SGC like Jonas by just writing lines to that effect. They can not make me like Jonas. Even though I want to like him I have to see something there to like -- and no it isn't just eye-candy.

Give the lad something meaningful to do, something worthwhile to say. Let him make a logical but valuable contribution to the team. So far it hasn't happened with any sort of consistency.

 

[imported_Sandman]

Originally posted by webmouse

Give the lad something meaningful to do, something worthwhile to say. Let him make a logical but valuable contribution to the team. So far it hasn't happened with any sort of consistency.

Thank you! You've hit the nail on the head. It's almost as if the writers are setting him up to fail. I'm ready, willing, and waiting for a 3D Jonas. But I can't wait too long, my mind has a way of forming its own opinion and I can't hold it off forever.

 

[Jobeth]

Webmouse wrote:

The trouble for actor Corin Nemec is that the writers haven't given him much to work with. I WANT to like Jonas, but I haven't been given a reason to. There hasn't been a scene where I was particularly concerned for his safety or felt any emotional attachment to him. He hasn't been left vulnerable and abandoned, as have all the other team members at some time or another. Instead he has been left reading a book and commenting on the obvious (boring) or saving the day (Wesley Crusher Syndrome) -- and neither extreme is endearing. At present JQ is following in DJ's path -- having only a few lines and a couple of scenes in long-shot.

The problem with Jonas is that the character was ill-conceived from the start and poorly introduced. As I've said before, TPTB not only should have waited for Shanks to leave before introducing his replacement, they should have written a logically consistent character. (e.g. have Jonas be a young Air Force officer with some linguistic/archaeological knowledge or even a member of the Tokra foisted off on the SGC.)

Not have him be some radiation proof alien who is almost ridiculously naive one episode and displaying near superpowers the next. First we're told he's an ethicist, then the leaders assistant, then he worked on their Naquadria project. Which is it? What does he actually do/know? What does he have to offer the SGC besides the ability to read fast?

Actually, I think they should have made him a Russian. They could have had the same 'new guy fights to earn the respect and trust of SG1' and it would have been far more plausible.

Spoiler

Or if they had to introduce him in "Meridian" they should have had him heroically try to save Daniel instead of that cowardly dive for safety then trying to frame Daniel for sabotage. That alone was enough to put me off Jonas, and I still don't buy the others letting him on the team after that.

 

[Dave]

I agree with all of the above posts to different degrees.

I will still watch Stargate SG-1 and I want to make up my own mind about Jonas. I have yet to see any of S6. I don't think 'Jonas is Evil' just because he is a Daniel replacement, but there are other things involved here too.

Not only have they written out possibly the best character, but they have replaced him with a 'replacement' instead of someone entirely different. And they did it in the same episode, just to emphasize the point. Even when 'Star Trek: Voyager' replaced Kes with Seven of Nine, they did it over 3 episodes.

Secondly, at the same time, there seems to have been a subtle change in storylines from off-world threats, to political intrigue and home-grown threats. From the posts that I've read, the fans that don't like this, in no way see it as connected to the Daniel/Jonas swap, but it does add to their general disquiet about the direction of the series. Two sides of the same coin.

 

[webmouse]

The eps of S6 shown thus far reveal to me a split in how Jonas is handled by the writers. Either he does nothing or he does everything. He is either marginally involved in what is going on or he has an attack of Crusher Syndrome and saves the day.

They could have introduced a new character in any number of ways and taken into account the sensitivity of the audience to the loss of well-loved character. Giving him faults is fine -- a character has to have room to grow and develop. But they made him hard to like and hard to relate to. Even his great decision to leave his home world with a stolen element, an act of treason, was presented as a fait accompli. We never see him deal with the decision, only its results. Since it is clear that Nemec can act, then let him act.

What I want to see now is an episode that puts Jonas in a vulnerable, even abandoned situation -- left behind and captured by the Goa'uld -- something that would do much to increase my emotional concern and attachment. A corresponding discussion back at the SGC of risking lives to rescue Jonas could lay out the pros and cons of his value to the team, with the end result being that the team goes to his rescue (well, the actor has a contract, after all).

As far as I can tell, the writers don't know what to do with Jonas and therefore I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to do with him either.

 

[Jobeth]

I know how you feel Webmouse. When I sat down to watch "Meridian" I felt sorry for CN because I knew that a lot of people would hate him on principle and I resolved to keep an open mind about the character. Halfway through the ep I found my self wondering "Am I supposed to LIKE this guy?" and by the end I detested him. This might have had something to do with the fact I had re-watched the movie several days earlier and couldn't help but compare Daniel's bravely hurling himself in front of a staff blast, sacrificing himself to save Jack's life, with Jonas' actions.

I'm not blaming the actor in any way. It certainly isn't his fault the writers chose to introduce him in such a poor manner.

Spoiler

I tried to give him another chance in 'Redemption' but he lost me for good when after admitting he had no scientific training, he spotted a design flaw in the glider that had eluded both Sam (with all her years of training and research) and the scientists who had worked for years on the project. I literally snorted and said "yeah, right". Yeesh, what a Mary Sue.

Dave, you make some good points too.

I've seen posts comparing Jonas replacing Daniel to all the character replacements on M*A*S*H. However, TPTB on M*A*S*H had the good sense to wait until Henry, Trapper and Frank were gone to introduce their replacements, and the new characters were nothing like the old ones. I can only imagine the fan reaction if Col. Potter had been the one who made Henry get on the doomed plane or if Charles had tried to act just like Frank. I doubt M*A*S*H would have lasted as long as it did in that case.

 

[Marty's Mine]

why are you all being s tough on jonus?!?! hes not daniel and he never will be, danny woz a great character but jonas is different. please stop judjing him! so what if he ws given a bad introduction to the show, but just like tel'c he betrayed his entre world to honour dannys name. whats so wrong about that??

 

[webmouse]

I don't feel that we are being "tough" on Jonas. Yes, we are all judging him. We are supposed to, just as we have formed opinions about every other character, plot, and prop in the show.

An intelligent program wishes to speak to an intelligent audience. If we are prepared to accept every change out of blind loyalty and without consideration, then the producers can save their money. They can hire hack writers, ham actors, produce a totally cheesy scifi show, and expect us to go along happily.

If I am critical of Jonas, that doesn't mean I don't LIKE him. In fact, quite the opposite -- I like him enough that I want to see more of him and am dismayed that the writers can't decide what to do with him. He was given a poor introduction and an implausible acceptance into a top secret program. It is hard to care about his character in the same way we care about the others.

Jonas is not a replacement for Daniel, because you can't replace people -- not even fictional ones. He is a different character and we need to get to know him better. There are many posters here and on gaters.net who are very harsh in their views of Jonas. They resent his place on the team and any screen time given to him is too much in their view.

But Jonas IS part of the team and should garner as much screen time as that devoted to Jack, Sam & T'ealc. There should be entire eps that revolve around Jonas, just as there have been eps that revolved around Daniel.

I want to like Jonas and am willing to accept him as part of the team. I miss Daniel, but cannot change decisions that were made months ago. I enjoy watching SG1, but not without thought. I point out where the flaws are, not to be mean, but because I care enough to think about it.

 

[Penguin]

Not every fan who likes Daniel bashes Jonas. That's a sad part of this fandom is that so many generalizations and fans are always locked into little boxes (you're a Daniel fan, a jack fan, a Jonas fan). Why can't people just be plain old fans?

Anyway, Jonas doesn't do much for me. Mostly becuase he's a vastly underdeveloped character.

What do we know about him? Producer/writer says he's got a photographic memory. Okay, and? I've seen a number of fans practically short out their keyboards drooling over how hunky he looks in a tight t-shirt (fans do that with every male character, I swear <G>). He was an ethical advisor to his country's president.

On base, he reads books, watches the weather channel, and collects lava lamps and other earth kische. But if a rogue elephant stomped on him tomorrow, I woudln't really miss him as there's not much to miss. We're at the 11th episode and the writers have done precious little to give him any kind of distinguishable background. I really don't think too much of "Shadow Play" as the "beautiful mind" ripoff was so annoying I tuned out.

I also think they should have brought ina new character after Daniel bit the big one because I saw that kind of production disaster occur with War of the Worlds. All that executive decision did was, basically, to **** off the fans.

 

[webmouse]

The writers have passed up every opportunity to give Jonas a proper introduction. The first chance was with "Meredian" where we should have seen much less of him and focused solely on a mysterious accident that cost Daniel his life. The following ep should have been about Jonas, his world, his place in it and how he changes because of what happened in the lab accident. We should have seen the change and the machinations he goes through to steal the naquadria and get to Earth with it -- not knowing what sort of reception he'll get.

Having missed that chance of an intro, the revisit to his world in "Shadow Play" could have covered much of that ground instead of ripping off a movie plot. We may have learned more about Callonan politics, but nothing really about Jonas and his beliefs. What was he to that government and what is he now?

Just sticking Jonas with a magic memory (and how did he learn to read in English so fast ?) plus a few buzzwords about ethics and science -- it just isn't enough to add up to a fully formed character.

And Corin Nemec can't do it alone. It isn't solely in the hands of the actor, but spread amongst writers, directors, and producers long before the actor has his input.

Now that Nemec has signed up to appear at Gatecon, I just hope the fans are merciful.