Boromir

Galadriel was the daughter of Finarfin, Fêanor's half brother, and therefore she was his children's cousin.

I think you've got the name mixed up with Glorfindel.
 
I do that ALL the time in real life. I once bet a friend that Julia Roberts was in Dirty Dancing because although I was hearing and saying Dirty Dancing my brain was telling me Pretty Woman. Doh!
 
I can sympathise with that, Nark, having done something similar myself several times.

My father often used to call me by the names of my cousins. When he used the names of the male ones it wasn't too bad, but when he changed my sex at the same time, it was a little disturbing.
 
I feel some pity for Boromir. He believes that his people are the unappreciated first - and last - line of defence against Sauron's forces. 'Few I deem know of our deeds, and therefore guess little of their peril, if we should fail at last." "by our valour...alone are peace and freedom maintained in the lands behind us"

Frodo not only does not appreciate the danger Gondor faces, or what will happen to the rest of Middle-earth if they fall, but worst of all does not trust the truest man there is (or so Boromir believes). What upsets Boromir after confronting Frodo is not only that he has driven the ring into the hands of the Enemy, but that he has broken a vow to protect the hobbit.
 
@paranoid marvin I do pity Boromir. I sympathize with shouldering a burden alone and unappreciated. Knowing in my heart that I'm fighting the good fight without physical, financial, emotional and spiritual support.... well, I can only do that so long. At some point, it really helps to get some acknowledgement and assistance. Without any assistance or acknowledgment, bitterness can set in. At that point I feel forsaken, i.e. a victim. As the victim, I tell myself that the ends can now justify the means. And of course, all my altruistic works for the community are then compromised and called into question. And I've never even seen the One Ring.

@farntfar I used to get angry when my grandmother would go through all of her grandchildren's names (including all the girls as well) trying to remember my name. And then just the other day, I went through all my niece's and nephew's names (I even included my brother and sister in the list) before coming up with my nephew CJ.
 
Boromir reminds me of the quote "what is evil but good tortured by its own hunger and thirst"


Also my mum used to call me and my sister by her younger siblings' names pretty often.

This is why I've taken to calling my nieces and nephews Munchkin One, Munchkin Two, and so on.
 
Boromir has been brought up by a father and the Stewards who have gone before who have seen the king abandon them, and leave them to defend themselves. The men of Gondor are men of deeds, not titles; why should they bow to a Ranger who has done nothing for them? "Gondor has no king. Gondor needs no king." Brought up by Denethor, this is the message that he would have been taught from a child, and why would he think any differently? It was the Steward, and not the King, who the people of Gondor should give thanks to; it was the folly of kings that had brought them to this position in the first place. Isildur had kept the Ring not through need, but for vanity.

Boromir, in my opinion, comes to the Council of Elrond corrupted by the influence of his father. He seeks not a new king, but reinforcements for his father. What he finds is the ultimate weapon, the one thing that can save Gondor for good and always. From the time of leaving Rivendell to arriving at the foot of Amon Hen, he begins to find redemption, and see the worthiness of Aragorn. I think that by this stage he is hoping that Aragorn will arrive at Minas Tirith, take his rightful place as King, and save the city.

It is only a momentary lapse back to the way that he was before coming to Rivendell. and a feeling of utter despair, that sees Boromir attempt to take the Ring from Frodo. I get the impression that if Frodo had reappeared and given Boromir a second chance, such a situation would never have happened again.

Far more than any other part of the story, this is the saddest for me. Boromir dies thinking that he has sent the Ring into the hands of the enemy, has allowed Pippin and Merry to be taken by the Uruk-Hai, betrayed his comrades and dishonoured his name; killing a few orcs before dying doesn't redeem him.
 
We also can't ignore that the ring was no mere object, but actively working to twist, corrupt, or take advantage of any weakness in those around it in order to further its own objective of getting back to Sauron. With his extreme sense of duty and desperation, the ring found something in Boromir it could exploit and, in a moment of weakness, he wasn't strong enough to resist its pull. He was genuinely heartbroken when he came to his senses and realized what he had done. The way they portrayed Boromir in the films is one of the few things I don't find any fault in. I honestly don't think they could have done him any better and can't see anyone else in that role other than Sean Bean.
 
Laura R Hepworth said:
We also can't ignore that the ring was no mere object, but actively working to twist, corrupt, or take advantage of any weakness in those around it in order to further its own objective of getting back to Sauron. With his extreme sense of duty and desperation, the ring found something in Boromir it could exploit and, in a moment of weakness, he wasn't strong enough to resist its pull. He was genuinely heartbroken when he came to his senses and realized what he had done. The way they portrayed Boromir in the films is one of the few things I don't find any fault in. I honestly don't think they could have done him any better and can't see anyone else in that role other than Sean Bean.
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I agree. Although both Aragorn and Boromir are of the race of men, it is the Gondorian who feels far more - human.
 
Laura R Hepworth said:
We also can't ignore that the ring was no mere object, but actively working to twist, corrupt, or take advantage of any weakness in those around it in order to further its own objective of getting back to Sauron. With his extreme sense of duty and desperation, the ring found something in Boromir it could exploit and, in a moment of weakness, he wasn't strong enough to resist its pull. He was genuinely heartbroken when he came to his senses and realized what he had done. The way they portrayed Boromir in the films is one of the few things I don't find any fault in. I honestly don't think they could have done him any better and can't see anyone else in that role other than Sean Bean.
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I agree with every point.

@paranoid marvin I don't dispute that Boromir feels more human. How many of us can identify with a prophesied king? Aragorn lived an unnaturally long life compared to the men of Gondor. He was of purer royal blood of Numenor than Boromir.

Also, Boromir was working without some critical knowledge. He had no idea who Aragorn was nor even of Aragorn's existence prior to going to Rivendell. Aragorn served as a hired sword in Rohan under Eomer's grandfather, Thengel. Then Aragorn served Boromir's grandfather, Ecthelion, for maybe fifteen years. During that time, Aragorn went by the name of Thorongil. By protecting Ithilien, just like Boromir and Faramir in the next generation) Aragorn rose to be the chief captain of Gondor (except for Denethor, Ecthelion's son and Boromir's father). Aragorn's Numenorean blood, in addition to giving him a longer life, gave him wisdom and insight lacking in normal humans. Denethor and Faramir also had this Numenorean perceptive powers that Boromir decidedly lacked. Most likely, Denethor pierced Aragorn's identity at this time. They were accounted the two greatest captains of Gondor, but Aragorn was more loved and judged more capable.

Boromir was born during Aragorn's stay in Gondor... and Aragorn would might likely have seen Boromir as an infant. When Boromir was two years old, Aragorn took a flotilla and surprised the great fleet of the Corsairs of Umbar. He burnt their entire fleet at anchor. It would take Umbar another generation to fully recover their strength at sea. They used this threat of a "Fleet In Being" to keep many of the lords of southern Gondor to stay home to protect their lands instead of going to the defense of Minas Tirith. Fortunately for Gondor, Aragorn once again destroyed the power of Umbar on his way to relive Minas Tirith. Anyway, after his first victory, Aragorn left Gondor. People thought is was to avoid a confrontation with Denethor, Ecthelion's heir, but it was because Aragorn had accomplished what he wanted.

So after Denethor succeeded Ethelion, he suspected that Aragorn was out there scheming to steal the throne of Gondor, but he never told Boromir nor Faramir. He knew Aragorn and Gandalf were on friendly terms and suspected them to be in cahoots to remove him from power and deny Boromir his birthright.

While serving in Ithilien or even at court, Boromir and Faramir probably heard the exploits of Thorongil. Boromir never equated Thorongil with Aragorn and certainly Aragorn nor Gandalf ever told him. I do not know if Aragorn ever told Faramir, but I suspect after the revelation of Denethor's refusal to acknowledge Aragorn, Faramir's revival at Aragorn's hands, and the triumphal retrun of the king that Faramir was perceptive enough to figure it out.
 
Recently, I was watching a millenial reaction to The Lord of the Rings on youtube. One comment was, "It's not Boromir's fault. The Ring is evil. It's like.... yeah." And it hit me that it was Boromir's fault. Yes, the Ring is evil. It is influential. It has superior power and over time it will corrupt. The Ring housed a portion of Sauron's spirit and it's power was even greater than that of either Saruman or Gandalf. Gandalf recoiled at Frodo's offering of the Ring..... but Saruman allowed his thinking to delve into the mysteries of the Ring (and as a defender of the Free Peoples he sought to defy Sauron) and he desired to directly oppose Sauron.... and he decided that the Ring would be the ultimate weapon against Sauron. Saruman fell to the temptation without ever being close to the Ring. This fall led him (or may have been the result of) to use the palantir. Galadriel also refused the temptation of the Ring. Sam was closer to the Ring far longer than Boromir, but was able to give it up.

But to deny Boromir's agency in his fall is to deny his agency in his redemption. Boromir fell to the temptation, but then renounced his sin/error/wrong doing and committed himself to doing right. He willingly gave his life for Merry and Pippin.... and this act directly saved the life of Boromir's brother. Boromir definitely regained his honor.
 
It's ironic that Boromir's actions prevented the one thing he wanted to happen. His grab for the Ring made up Frodo's mind. If Boromir hadn't done what he did, it's conceivable that Frodo would have followed Aragorn to Minas Tirith.

To be honest though, it can be argued that Boromir was the only one of the Fellowship who was being practical and sensible. If you wsnt to defeat Sauron, then the last thing that you do is give the one thing that will ensure his victory to a weak, easily manipulated Hobbit. You give it to a wizard like Gandalf, or a nobleman like Aragorn. Or to a warrior like Boromir. You place it in the hands of someone capable of defending themselves and the Ring.

And what you absolutely do NOT do is let a Hobbit carry it to the gates of Mordor; right into the hands of Sauron. That would be the equivalent of Oppenheimer going to Tokyo or Berlin with the plans for the Manhattan Project in the early years of WWII.

You use the Ring to destroy Sauron, tear down his citadel and then destroy the Ring. Or you rally the forces of Middle-earth against Sauron, defeat them 'conventionally' and then take the Ring to Mount Doom.

What Boromir wanted to do didn't sound to him like treason or foolhardy; it was tactically the right, sensible thing to do.
 
Boaz said:
Recently, I was watching a millenial reaction to The Lord of the Rings on youtube. One comment was, "It's not Boromir's fault. The Ring is evil. It's like.... yeah." And it hit me that it was Boromir's fault. Yes, the Ring is evil. It is influential. It has superior power and over time it will corrupt. The Ring housed a portion of Sauron's spirit and it's power was even greater than that of either Saruman or Gandalf. Gandalf recoiled at Frodo's offering of the Ring..... but Saruman allowed his thinking to delve into the mysteries of the Ring (and as a defender of the Free Peoples he sought to defy Sauron) and he desired to directly oppose Sauron.... and he decided that the Ring would be the ultimate weapon against Sauron. Saruman fell to the temptation without ever being close to the Ring. This fall led him (or may have been the result of) to use the palantir. Galadriel also refused the temptation of the Ring. Sam was closer to the Ring far longer than Boromir, but was able to give it up.

But to deny Boromir's agency in his fall is to deny his agency in his redemption. Boromir fell to the temptation, but then renounced his sin/error/wrong doing and committed himself to doing right. He willingly gave his life for Merry and Pippin.... and this act directly saved the life of Boromir's brother. Boromir definitely regained his honor.
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I think the question here is less Boromir and more how do we view free will and agency. Clearly the ring doesn't make everyone around it evil automatically but at the same time, it does have a huge malign influence unusual to everyday life. Not everyone reacts to such influences the same; not everyone has the same capabilities for choice in these circumstances in their brain chemistry.

I can see someone looking at Boromir's decision there in the same way they might look at someone whose personality was altered for the worst by a brain tumour or injury; a tragic event caused by something they were powerless to stop and which, in effect, took away part of their free will. That Boromir's brain chemistry made him unable to resist where others could.

In this particular case, I'm not entirely sure where I fall. To put too much weight on the irresistibility of the ring is to significantly lessen the extent to which Galadriel changed over her life. The Galadriel glimpsed in the Silmarillion would probably not have turned the ring down. The Galadriel in the Lord of the Rings has clearly learnt a great deal.

Even if it isn't Boromir's fault, it still points to faults in his character.
 
It's interesting as to what the Ring actually does Does it actually make you evil, or does it just make people possessive of it; willing to do anything and everything to acquire or retain it?
 
I think we have to look at how much people entertain the thoughts of temptation in their own minds before the occasion to act upon the temtation comes upon them. Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo, Gandalf, Aragorn, Boromir, Galadriel, Denethor, Faramir, Sam, Gorbag, and Shagrat are all tempted by the Ring. How much time did each of them entertain thoughts of power, control, domination, or even using the Ring to save others and thus gaining honor, renown, and praise for their heroism? Gandalf, Aragorn, and Faramir rejected the thoughts of domination and heroism for service and gratitude. Galadriel had thousands of years to think fighting evil.... to use artifacts to combat Melkor and Sauron.... to protect the Free Peoples.... and she had entertained the thought of using the Ring for good purposes.... and she ended up rejecting it, barely. Denethor and Saruman seemed to be in the same boat as Galadriel... thinking of using the Ring to save Middle-eath, but both used their palantirs and neither saw the fruitlessness of using the cursed Silmarils firsthand as Galadriel did. Neither of them ever had the Ring come to them like Galadrel did, but both coveted the Ring. I think Boromir, in desperation to save Gondor, considered the Ring as an option.... in fact, it grew to seem to be the only option. Frodo had to carry the Ring in an attempt to to destroy it and the Ring reacted strongly. By carrying the Ring, Frodo gives us a physical representation of entetaining the thought of the Ring.... and it finally took over Frodo.
 
I've said it before, but I do think that Aragorn could have possessed the Ring -perhaps even used it - and then destroyed it.

Aragorn used the Palantir and used it to deceive Sauron. It only takes up a small amount of room in the story, but it is significant and shows his strength of character.

He could choose to take and use the Ring at any time, and no-one would attempt (or be capable) of denying him if he did. Almost anyone else (the exception being Bombadil) would have succumbed, but Aragorn - maybe would have succeeded. Sauron certainly feared that he could.
 
I cannot disagree with that. With the lessons of time, Aragorn had prepared himself to do what Isildur could not.
 
I do not know what Tolkien said, but my guess as to the nature of the Ring runs thus -

Remember the point of the Ring (at least in terms of story lore, if not story purpose) isn't corruption, it is to amplify the power of Sauron. It is a tool of domination, one he put a huge amount of himself into to make it work.

So to have the Ring is to have a part of Sauron's personality working on you, in particular the paranoia and tyrannical intent. It will encourage that part of the personality, call to it, grow it. And to use it as a weapon will only increase that, because as a weapon, it's only a weapon of domination and tyranny.

Therefore the Ring's influence on someone depends on how much their personality resembles Sauron's in terms of wanting power, security at all costs, domination, and so on. Boromir, mortally afraid for his country and proud and unthinking of the problems of raising another Sauron, was easy prey. The Wise like Galadriel, Elrond, Gandalf, are well, wise, to why they shouldn't take it but with considerable temptations. Hobbits are very resistant because of their care-free lives and small ambitions, and only Bombadil, who simply doesn't care at all is completely resistant.
 
@The Big Peat And... Dwarves. They might be greedy, avaricious, and evil, but they don't succumb easily to the domination of others.
 
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